JVR at the deadline

[SprDaVE]

I think the biggest difference between dealing him this year vs. the summer is that you're guaranteeing him for two playoff runs as opposed to one. One thing Burke used to say, which I agreed with, was that people make the worst mistakes at the deadline. I think the team is likely to get a lesser asset if they wait until the draft.

I disagree. I think you can find more teams willing to get him for a year after the expansion draft. Teams are able to tinker with their lineup then, load on a veteran or two. A team can replace a player through free agency a lot easier as well. Plenty of options open in the summer as opposed to right now where you're dealing with one or two teams at the most.

This trade deadline will be one of the quietest in a long time for a lot of reasons, not just because we're being conservative.

 

[IWD]

I disagree. I think you can find more teams willing to get him for a year after the expansion draft. Teams are able to tinker with their lineup then, load on a veteran or two. A team can replace a player through free agency a lot easier as well. Plenty of options open in the summer as opposed to right now where you're dealing with one or two teams at the most.

This trade deadline will be one of the quietest in a long time for a lot of reasons, not just because we're being conservative.

We'll have to agree to disagree, because with an opened up market, you'll have fewer teams willing to pony up assets when they have an abundance of options available to them at much more affordable prices.

The whole point is to take advantage of the arms race.

 

[Rick74*]

Carolina could certainly use him. The problem is his age. Nobody wants to sign vets, they all want rookies.

 

[The CyNick]

This debate always goes nowhere.

For the people who think we should trade JVR now, it's helpful to list it what you think is reasonable return that we would accept and more importantly which team is going to pay those assets. Very few people in this thread have done that.

If it's just pie in the sky "get a pick and a prospect", I don't think that's helps the conversation, because obviously there are a wide variance in prospects out there. And sure, you can shoot for the moon, I would love to get Ekblad, but I know it's not going to happen in a JVR deal. The specific player we expect to get back is key.

The other issue is everyone who is for trading JVR has the same narrative that JVR will want too much money (what specifically that means will vary from person to person), or is too old. But guess what, every team will likely have a similar ceiling in the sense of what they are willing to give up for a player that will cost what JVR will cost when he becomes a UFA.

By keeping JVR we create a deeper team for a playoff run this run and hopefully an even better one next year. After that, you see where things end up. If JVR is willing to sign a longer deal with a lower annual number, then maybe he's worth keeping around. Or maybe you just take a couple playoff runs with him, and let him walk. I'm not convinced the package we will be offered for him will be an offer we can't walk away from. And on top of that you give time for someone internally to emerge who can do what JVR does.

 

[Northernguy10]

We'll have to agree to disagree, because with an opened up market, you'll have fewer teams willing to pony up assets when they have an abundance of options available to them at much more affordable prices.

The whole point is to take advantage of the arms race.

I agree with you. I can't see a team after the playoffs thinking " I have one less shot at a Stanley cup with him. Let me offer you more (or the same) than I would have at the trade deadline."

 

[thewave]

If you get an extremely good offer for either Bozak or JVR at the TDL then do it. We would be foolish not to do either but I just can't see it happening because of the protection rules. Who will have the space to protect these new assets and very likely if exposed either would also be taken. Based on this, I just don't think the market will be hot enough and therefore, we won't get a juicy enough offer.

 

[BlueBaron]

Funny that so few see the other obvious option. Keep him and extend him. Our left wing depth is a joke. We can afford him and making our forward group worse for picks and prospects does not make sense at this point because we are a real team again.

Yes, yes I know we need a defenseman but with expansion we have tons of options that do not require trading one of our few vets who also happens to be worlds better than any other left winger and a proven threat to flirt with 30 goals.

JVR-Matthews-Marner

That is going to be one of the best first lines in hockey soon, why are people so determined to have a worse one?

 

[ACC1224]

No disagreement but should they be looking to take advantage of a pretty bare sellers market?

They won't be looking to move JVR while in a playoff position.

 

[doorman]

They won't be looking to move JVR while in a playoff position.

Agreed, moving him sends the wrong message to the players, IMO. That being said for the right deal which would need to be a young Dman it's possible. You are however talking a very few teams, Minn & Ana maybe at the deadline looking to add a scoring winger.

 

[taurine330]

They won't be looking to move JVR while in a playoff position.

Playoff position this season shouldn't affect anything. If you were planning on trading JvR then trade him. You should not not trade him because of current standings.

 

[ACC1224]

Playoff position this season shouldn't affect anything. If you were planning on trading JvR then trade him. You should not not trade him because of current standings.

Sure, I'd have no issues seeing him gone but in reality a player like that typically won't be moved while in a playoff spot

 

[The CyNick]

Funny that so few see the other obvious option. Keep him and extend him. Our left wing depth is a joke. We can afford him and making our forward group worse for picks and prospects does not make sense at this point because we are a real team again.

Yes, yes I know we need a defenseman but with expansion we have tons of options that do not require trading one of our few vets who also happens to be worlds better than any other left winger and a proven threat to flirt with 30 goals.

JVR-Matthews-Marner

That is going to be one of the best first lines in hockey soon, why are people so determined to have a worse one?

I don't think Matthews and Marner are destined to play together. If anything, I see Nylander and Marner paired together.

I agree with extending JVR as an option. Obviously depends on the cap hit it would take to keep him.

 

[highslot]

we have no guaranteed 25-30 goal scorer with size and scoring touch. we have prospects. on lw we have komorov right now or leivo, hyman and martin.

that doesn't scream cup contender.

even if kapanen makes, which he will, there is no guarantee that his point total or injury free time will be the same as jvr.

i'd rather have

jvr
kapanen
grundstrom
leivo/komorov

on the right, you'd have

marner
korshov
timashov/bracco/
brown/lindberg/engvall

another top winger would be nice, or a d.

centres are set in the future with

matthews
nylander
kadri
gauther/brooks/komorov

 

[hotpaws]

I don't think Matthews and Marner are destined to play together. If anything, I see Nylander and Marner paired together.

I agree with extending JVR as an option. Obviously depends on the cap hit it would take to keep him.

you complained about people not stating exactly what they want in return in a trade but you haven't said what numbers/term you'd like to sign him for

 

[tokyoite]

Stay put.
I don't think Lou is interested in trading him.

 

[IWD]

we have no guaranteed 25-30 goal scorer with size and scoring touch. we have prospects. on lw we have komorov right now or leivo, hyman and martin.

that doesn't scream cup contender.

even if kapanen makes, which he will, there is no guarantee is point total or injury free time will be the same as jvr.

i'd rather have

jvr
kapanen
grundstrom
leivo/komorov

on the right, you'd have

marner
korshov
timashov/bracco/
brown/lindberg/engvall

another top winger would be nice, or a d.

centres are set in the future with

matthews
nylander
kadri
gauther/brooks/komorov

Well, it's certainly a predicament, yes. JVR provides stability and size up front. I like him as a player, and I value the speed and skill that he brings for a guy his size. I would prefer a better two-way game too. I think he'd do well in Anaheim, and they are one of those teams with a glut of defensemen.

 

[selltrade]

going nowhere at deadline

 

[The CyNick]

you complained about people not stating exactly what they want in return in a trade but you haven't said what numbers/term you'd like to sign him for

I've said it before in other threads. Basically my thought with him is he should get somewhere in the neighborhood of six or seven years at six or seven million per year. In dollars that means 36-49 million dollars over the life of the deal. If someone offers him 7*7, I'm not in that game. But if we can get him at 8 years at 5 or less that's in the 40 million range and likely takes him to retirement. If you front load the real money, he will be a tradeable asset in the years you would be worried about major decline. I would be happy to keep him under that scenario.

 

[ShaneFalco]

I think the simple answer here is you trade him if you get the right offer (regardless of standings). Especially if it's a trade for a decent d-man, the team's biggest need.
I don't think it happens at the deadline, but for the long-term future, I hope he's gone in the off-season.

 

[al secord]

Playoff position shouldn't matter if we get an offer we can't refused that helps us in the long term.

Having said that, I doubt there will be a trade offer of such significance before the trade deadline. Unless Jim Benning goes all Jim Benning on us.

 

[Mess]

JVR to Anaheim in a package that includes a top Dman prospect of which Ducks are stacked at.

His 3 assists in last 12 games is not helping trade value for those looking for an offensive boost and Leafs selling high.

 

[BlueBaron]

I don't think Matthews and Marner are destined to play together. If anything, I see Nylander and Marner paired together.

I agree with extending JVR as an option. Obviously depends on the cap hit it would take to keep him.

You are probably right that they will be split up so they can drive separate lines but they will certainly be on the PP together. And if you are right and Nylander gets Marner that makes the need for JVR all the greater. Mathews will eventually get more talented line mates and JVR and Brown would round out a fine first line too. Then we just need to find Nylander a LW, I'd say our third line is now done with the K-K-L line and the we round it out with Hyman Goat and whoever. Now on to Defense! Makes far more sense than creating a hole we will just have to fill later. I rather trade some of our winger prospects and picks and get an expansion bargain, or sign a good FA.

 

[Northernguy10]

The way the league is going now it seems that many teams are handcuffed with players in the 30+ age group making over 5 mil per season. Many, not all, of what is now considered an 'aging' player are now considered salary dumps in attempted trades. I think you're seeing, or will see, teams using the Chicago blue print whereby you pay your stars and continue a revolving door with the potential 5-7 million dollar players with term. There will be some signed in this range (Rielly for example) but you can't have too many in this type of salary cap world. The onus will be even more on drafting and developing and I get the impression that the Leafs will go this route to try and build a sustainable, contending franchise.I do believe with our new 'big 3' that the team will be wary of the amount of 5-7 million dollar contracts they hand out with over 4 years term.The ones that will be will be younger players (22-25 yr old) I don't believe they will sign JVR to one of these mid level contracts.

 

[IWD]

JVR to Anaheim in a package that includes a top Dman prospect of which Ducks are stacked at.

His 3 assists in last 12 games is not helping trade value for those looking for an offensive boost and Leafs selling high.

Yep, not racking up the points right now. Manson is NHL ready and playing as their #4. That would let them bring up Montour, who they're justifiably high on. Or they could avoid hurting their defensive chemistry, and just move Montour.

 

[nuck]

By guarantee I mean what is it you are looking for?
For example, say you are offered 2 deals.

Deal #1: Anaheim offers Fowler for JVR.
Deal #2: A team, say Chicago, offers a 1st, a good prospect and either another prospect or 2nd round pick.

Which do you take? What is it you are looking for when dealing JVR? A deal with the most (but maybe question marks) or the right now need (proven).

I think you go for the "most" with a bias towards the D. I won't get into how awesome I think a Fowler deal would be, but the only deal I wouldn't want is for soft skill first forwards. If they can add a quality D man that's great, but Vatanen for JVR for instance doesn't work for me. SV makes the club better, but I think it is not too difficult to develop players of that level. JVR and taking some salary back is worth more. Now Sami and their 1st, I would likely do, but they are a bit soft and he doesn't help with that..

I would like the Leafs to have multiple 1sts this year. There are a bunch of big and relatively skilled D men who have a little better upside than their current best prospects. If they add 2nds they should maybe be for next year