JVR at the deadline

[Pookie]

you'd have to ask yourself would you get more trading JVR now - vs at Draft/In the Summer.

If you get a great offer ... bird in hand... can **** on you in the summer if you hold on to it too long

Signed

Cody Franson

 

[Defense]

If we can fill the gap on D by trading JVR, I'm all for it

But I believe holding on JVR for the playoffs and then trading at the draft is better than acquiring a late first round pick at trade deadline

 

[RightyYourWrongy*]

I guess it would depend on the answers to the following questions:

Are the Leafs in a playoff spot or race after the next three games (NYR, MTL, SJ)

What is the market for JvR

Do you have a replacement option for JvR

What do you value him as

--

If we go on a 3 game skid and the market is good - I trade him.

If we are still in the hunt I keep him and look to move him in the off-season.

Potential post-JvR lines:

Hyman-Matthews-Brown (Babcock said this is basically the default Matthews line)
Nylander-Bozak-Marner
Komo-Kadri-Leivo
Martin-Goat-Sosh

Hyman-Matthews-Brown
Leivo-Bozak-Marner
Komo-Kadri-Nylander
Martin-Goat-Sosh

Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
Leivo-Bozak-Marner
Komo-Kadri-Brown
Martin-Goat-Sosh

Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
Brown-Bozak-Marner
Komo-Kadri-Leivo
Martin-Goat-Sosh

 

[Field of Dreams]

Obviously if you get blown away with an offer you have to bite. Though, I think JVR is a victim of odd man out syndrome around here - by virtue of being included in every trade proposal he is undervalued.

Fact is, he is a very good player, and if traded will most likely not be replaced internally with our current crop of LW prospects. That's to say, big wingers with a scoring touch are not easily replaceable players. He's not old, and can continue to be a big contributer for many years if resigned.

Ironic thing is, Phili looks like one of the best fits for JVR, in some ways that speaks to my point.

 

[The Thin White Duke]

If we can fill the gap on D by trading JVR, I'm all for it

But I believe holding on JVR for the playoffs and then trading at the draft is better than acquiring a late first round pick at trade deadline

Trading JVR for a package of picks + prospects and then dealing those for a Tanev/Green/Garrison would help us more in the playoffs.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

If he's dealt by the deadline it'll be a "hockey trade" not one for purely futures. He'd be dealt for a young dman.

 

[PuckMagi]

I think our plan for the expansion draft will be to make a trade to pick up at least 2 good defenders and then protect 5 or 6 defenders. We are in a unique position because all our best forwards are too young to need protecting.

But most teams will only protect 3 defenders. So if other teams are worried about losing that 4th defender, why not trade him for JVR? Anyways, that's what I think we should do. Trade him for a defender to a team worried that vegas will pick up their 4th best defender who is only protecting 3 defenders. Maybe Lou can even work his magic and pick up their 3rd best defender.

 

[Kiwi]

I guess it would depend on the answers to the following questions:

Are the Leafs in a playoff spot or race after the next three games (NYR, MTL, SJ)

What is the market for JvR

Do you have a replacement option for JvR

What do you value him as

--

If we go on a 3 game skid and the market is good - I trade him.

If we are still in the hunt I keep him and look to move him in the off-season.

Potential post-JvR lines:

Hyman-Matthews-Brown (Babcock said this is basically the default Matthews line)
Nylander-Bozak-Marner
Komo-Kadri-Leivo
Martin-Goat-Sosh

Hyman-Matthews-Brown
Leivo-Bozak-Marner
Komo-Kadri-Nylander
Martin-Goat-Sosh

Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
Leivo-Bozak-Marner
Komo-Kadri-Brown
Martin-Goat-Sosh

Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
Brown-Bozak-Marner
Komo-Kadri-Leivo
Martin-Goat-Sosh

If the right deal comes in now I'd like to see him traded
Even if it means missing the playoffs

 

[Trapper]

you'd have to ask yourself would you get more trading JVR now - vs at Draft/In the Summer.

You'd also have to ask is what you want in return available?
Are you trading him for the sake of trading him or is that piece that makes us a better team there?

 

[Daisy Jane]

You'd also have to ask is what you want in return available?
Are you trading him for the sake of trading him or is that piece that makes us a better team there?

well i am assuming th reason why you are trading him now - is the same reason why you are trading him in the summer.

 

[Menzinger]

Expansion is really going to kill the TDL this year - at least fornlieces like JVr, teams that can't protect him won't trade good assets in a trade

 

[Trapper]

well i am assuming th reason why you are trading him now - is the same reason why you are trading him in the summer.

That's a good assumption but I mean what's the plan?
If all you want is picks and prospects, now or the summer might not make a difference.
If you want to fill a specific need, then that might not be available now.

 

[Rick74*]

With the emergence of Lievo...yes. Yes the should.

 

[nuck]

You'd also have to ask is what you want in return available?
Are you trading him for the sake of trading him or is that piece that makes us a better team there?

Any piece you acquire has the potential to make you a better team. If you want a guarantee then you need players and not prospects and that means little chance for a home run. Where are you at if you don't make a deal?

 

[HellasLEAF]

Before Leivo I would have said no.

Now, and a few others that will be pushing for spots at wing, if you can get a better deal now then in the summer I say do it.

Only for a stud top 4 D though. Even if a package is required. Trouba would be the perfect fit (if only)

 

[Ciao]

Time to trade JVR at the TDL.

He doesn't fit long-term. If he's not traded now for full value he will become a rental.

I think Leafs management has made up its mind on him. He's not a keeper and won't get resigned.

 

[IWD]

The problem is that trading JVR makes us weaker now and we're trying to make the playoffs, despite what some people will say that it doesn't matter. It matters to the players, the coach, the manager, the president and the owner. So unless someone is giving a great player in return, which probably won't happen since whoever wants him wants to add to the team, then you're going to get future assets back which doesn't help us to make a push. JVR will still have value this summer, so there's no rush to trade him.

The other point is that the expansion draft makes it very tough for a team to acquire him if they can't properly protect him or someone else. So they could potentially lose him or another player to Las Vegas.

Possibly, but not necessarily. Up until this month, Leivo was essentially an afterthought for most of us. If his emergence is real, that would soften the blow of losing JVR, in addition to whatever the return would be. If JVR is used to add a youngish top four defenseman, for example, the downgrade to Leivo would still result in an overall team improvement in the short- and long-term.

 

[pucci2001]

Just curious, JVR has stated in the past he likes it here and wants to remain a Leaf. If he takes a hometown discount do you think signing him is even an option? I was always for trading JVR but this season he has really grown on me until he disappeared a couple weeks ago(he has since reemerged)...do we want to keep him around?

I like having so many different lines that bring tons of firepower. I think he makes it through the season and might get moved this summer. I think we make a big mistake if we don't move him or sign him before next years deadline. He is too young, good to be a rental. I am open to trading him for a forward that is younger and as talented or a top 3 dman(even if we have to add) he is one of our best trade chips that we actually dont mind parting with, we have to trade him very wisely if we trade him.

 

[SprDaVE]

Are we that much weaker though if we traded with a team like Anaheim for instance that his D they can plug in if they move someone and not really miss a beat? In our case I think Leivo brings a lot of what JVR does and the piece we would hopefully add on the blueline would be impactful on our backend, which is pretty bad right now. Plugging our hole in the top 4 and slotting guys down where they should be, along with Leivo's impact should outweigh JVR's.

I did say that he could be traded for a good player back, meaning a defender probably.

What I'm saying is that it's highly unlikely, even for the Ducks.

We're a lot more likely to trade him this summer, get as much as we can back and move forward.

Possibly, but not necessarily. Up until this month, Leivo was essentially an afterthought for most of us. If his emergence is real, that would soften the blow of losing JVR, in addition to whatever the return would be. If JVR is used to add a youngish top four defenseman, for example, the downgrade to Leivo would still result in an overall team improvement in the short- and long-term.

I never said he's untouchable. I said that it's unlikely that he gets dealt for a good player in return. There's probably only one that could do it... and even that feels very unlikely. I don't think the Leafs have interest in a pick or two right now either for obvious reasons.

Leivo will still be here next year as well. If and when JVR is traded, it will be this summer when options open and we can accept future assets, something most teams would prefer to give up, and then we can turn around and use some of them to acquire other player of needs, like a defender.

 

[Trapper]

Any piece you acquire has the potential to make you a better team. If you want a guarantee then you need players and not prospects and that means little chance for a home run. Where are you at if you don't make a deal?

By guarantee I mean what is it you are looking for?
For example, say you are offered 2 deals.

Deal #1: Anaheim offers Fowler for JVR.
Deal #2: A team, say Chicago, offers a 1st, a good prospect and either another prospect or 2nd round pick.

Which do you take? What is it you are looking for when dealing JVR? A deal with the most (but maybe question marks) or the right now need (proven).

 

[Pookie]

The problem is that trading JVR makes us weaker now and we're trying to make the playoffs, despite what some people will say that it doesn't matter. It matters to the players, the coach, the manager, the president and the owner...

It's a massive problem.

Not only makes our team weaker but if we are following a rebuilding plan, we'd have to be prepared to trade him to a team we are in the playoff hunt with.

Same story for Bozak, Hunwick and Polak.

All players that should be considered. Polak and Hunwick especially as they are UFA this summer. It's either deal or no deal.

Half Leaf Nation will have a fit if that happens. Patience is just a word.

Kind of a defining moment for the management.

Do they have the gumption to stick to what is best for the long term and make deals if available to teams we are competing with or do they chase the last rung on the ladder and potentially lose value for assets?

 

[Trapper]

It's a massive problem.

Not only makes our team weaker but if we are following a rebuilding plan, we'd have to be prepared to trade him to a team we are in the playoff hunt with.

Same story for Bozak, Hunwick and Polak.

All players that should be considered. Polak and Hunwick especially as they are UFA this summer. It's either deal or no deal.

Half Leaf Nation will have a fit if that happens. Patience is just a word.

Kind of a defining moment for the management. Do they have the gumption to stick to what is best for the long term and make deals of available or do they chase the last rung on the ladder and potentially lose value for assets?

They haven't given us any indication they don't.
Even Babcock's comments on the trade deadline:
“If anyone’s looking for us to be the news on deadline day, I’d find something else to do.â€

 

[Pookie]

They haven't given us any indication they don't.
Even Babcock's comments on the trade deadline:
“If anyone’s looking for us to be the news on deadline day, I’d find something else to do.â€

True. We'll see what happens.

 

[IWD]

I never said he's untouchable. I said that it's unlikely that he gets dealt for a good player in return. There's probably only one that could do it... and even that feels very unlikely. I don't think the Leafs have interest in a pick or two right now either for obvious reasons.

Leivo will still be here next year as well. If and when JVR is traded, it will be this summer when options open and we can accept future assets, something most teams would prefer to give up, and then we can turn around and use some of them to acquire other player of needs, like a defender.

I think the biggest difference between dealing him this year vs. the summer is that you're guaranteeing him for two playoff runs as opposed to one. One thing Burke used to say, which I agreed with, was that people make the worst mistakes at the deadline. I think the team is likely to get a lesser asset if they wait until the draft.

 

[Trapper]

True. We'll see what happens.

If the Leafs do anything at the deadline, I'm sure it will be:

1. To ensure they meet the proper player exposure requirements.

2. Perhaps help a cap strapped team and acquire picks/prospects for it.

3. Listen to offers by teams that would (maybe) like a Hunwick at the deadline.
If we don't trade Hunwick, I don't view it as a lost asset because I don't see the Leafs having any problems re-signing him next year if they want.