Just heard on the radio Bylsma is expected to be our next assistant

jkutswings

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Jul 10, 2014
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"Play the kids and have fun" has never been a good strategy for any sports team ever. These kids have to be pushed and learn how to play in the NHL.
Pushing the kids to do their best isn't the part that's problematic. It's juxtaposing that against little to no consequences for veteran players who make major mistakes and/or display a lack of effort or focus.

If Blash was tough on everybody, I'd have no issue with it. And I understand that sometimes you need to use a carrot instead of a stick. But it's not ok to routinely say, kids try harder, while also routinely saying, vets, it's ok to keep screwing up.
 

njx9

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Feb 1, 2016
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I have no problem with Blashill riding the kids hard; that's the way they are going to learn to play every aspect of the game. If you're doing the wrong things because of a lack of accountability, you need to be made aware and have a corrective action taken.

These kids have to be pushed and learn how to play in the NHL.

Gallant disagrees.

I think this "beat kids over the head with their mistakes until they become so scared to make any that they stop playing anything even sort of approaching actual hockey" is absolutely asinine, and is a large part of why the team has stopped being fun to watch and why the kids we bring up tend to stagnate.
 
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Claypool

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Jan 12, 2009
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Pushing the kids to do their best isn't the part that's problematic. It's juxtaposing that against little to no consequences for veteran players who make major mistakes and/or display a lack of effort or focus.

Wasn't a problem for Larkin.
 

Reddwit

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Feb 4, 2016
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Wasn't a problem for Larkin.

Yes, using someone who came to the NHL with a world class work ethic pre-installed is a great way to get your point across.

I'm not going to cry over this addition but I think a great coaching staff is versatile. Hiring a guy who has a reputation similar to that of Blashill is slightly worrisome. No one is asking for a pack of Dave Lewises but I'd prefer we hired someone who has a reputation for coaching in a way thats alternative to Blashill instead of arguably mirroring it. I'd hate for that coaching office to become an echo chamber.
 

Hen Kolland

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Feb 22, 2018
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Gallant disagrees.

I think this "beat kids over the head with their mistakes until they become so scared to make any that they stop playing anything even sort of approaching actual hockey" is absolutely asinine, and is a large part of why the team has stopped being fun to watch and why the kids we bring up tend to stagnate.

I just said not to kill them over it?

But he also said, "those guys are accountable are accountable guys and work hard and they don't got to apologize to me." Everyone screws up, it's inevitable. The problem with someone like AA is he hasn't been accountable or worked hard. It's a different set of parameters. Mantha wasn't always accountable and working hard to improve, but he has figured things out with Blashill and developed a process to be a better player....exactly what the coaching should be accomplishing.

If you demonstrate that you bust your ass and cover your responsibilities in damn near every single case, then one mistake isn't going to be the end of the world. But what happens if you aren't covering your responsibilities even 50% of the time like Athanasiou, when his shortcomings are apparent in nearly every single game? Coaches are just supposed to throw him out for 18 minutes a night?

I'm not saying bury them alive on the first mistake they make, because shit happens as Gallant pointed out, but if you are habitual offender, you probably don't deserve the benefit of the doubt.
 
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Red Stanley

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Just to make it clear, not working hard and making mistakes are two entirely different things. Making mistakes is bad only if you learn nothing from them and they keep repeating. Not working hard is never ok. I don't want to see young players benched for making a mistake (or two) no matter how horrible it is. That's just bad coaching imo. So grill the young guys for a lack of work ethic, but never for making mistakes.
 

BogsDiamond

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Mar 16, 2008
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But if the kids play scared, they can't grow. They start to doubt themselves and they never develop.
I'm not saying to let them play pond hockey, but you can't screw them to the bench or berate them everytime they make a youthful mistake.
Coaches lose games, they don't win them. Larry Robinson once said they would have won MORE cups if it weren't for Scotty Bowman.

Some of these players, like Larkin, are here because of their talent. You don't throw a plow on Secretariat. You let the big dogs eat!
 

njx9

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Feb 1, 2016
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I just said not to kill them over it?

Sorry, the second part is my disdain for the organizational philosophy, not for your, or Claypool's, comment.

But he also said, "those guys are accountable are accountable guys and work hard and they don't got to apologize to me." Everyone screws up, it's inevitable. The problem with someone like AA is he hasn't been accountable or worked hard. It's a different set of parameters. Mantha wasn't always accountable and working hard to improve, but he has figured things out with Blashill and developed a process to be a better player....exactly what the coaching should be accomplishing.

Except it often doesn't feel like Mantha and AA were being held accountable for working hard, but simply for making a mistake. Bad turnover? On the bench. Mental error? You're back to the 4th line, playing grinder minutes. I should also be clear that this isn't a Blashill problem, as Babcock pulled the same crap.

If you demonstrate that you bust your ass and cover your responsibilities in damn near every single case, then one mistake isn't going to be the end of the world. But what happens if you aren't covering your responsibilities even 50% of the time like Athanasiou, when his shortcomings are apparent in nearly every single game? Coaches are just supposed to throw him out for 18 minutes a night?

If you're screwing up that often, you should be off the team. There's no benefit to anyone in just jamming you back to the 4th line, over and over. We either accept that you're a certain type of player, and figure out how to let you play that way, or we accept that you're never going to play the way we want, and we move on. It's not like AA, for instance, is suddenly going to come into camp this year as a different player with a different personality.

I'm not saying bury them alive on the first mistake they make, because **** happens as Gallant pointed out, but if you are habitual offender, you probably don't deserve the benefit of the doubt.

If every kid is an habitual offender (AA, Mantha, Smith), there's probably something going badly wrong on the development side.

Just to make it clear, not working hard and making mistakes are two entirely different things. Making mistakes is bad only if you learn nothing from them and they keep repeating. Not working hard is never ok. I don't want to see young players benched for making a mistake (or two) no matter how horrible it is. That's just bad coaching imo. So grill the young guys for a lack of work ethic, but never for making mistakes.

Absolutely agree. If AA comes in and won't work hard or backcheck or whatever, fine, staple him to the bench or move him when it becomes clear it's not changing. When he makes a dumb turnover at mid-ice that leads to a goal, don't yank his ice time immediately.[/quote][/QUOTE]
 

The Zetterberg Era

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Nov 8, 2011
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Good hire, hard to say adding an assistant with a ton of experience and a Cup on his resume in the game is a bad thing. Before someone dumps on him, he out-coached Babcock over the back-end of that series so it wasn't just Crosby they made changes including dropping deeper for their breakout to thwart the Red Wings at the end of that series. Same thing Cooper and Q did to beat Babcock's system as well, but the first guy that actually figured it out was Bylsma

Blashill and him worked well together at the World Championships, I am all for this.
 
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njx9

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Feb 1, 2016
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Holy hyperoble batman

*shrug* I don't think it's hyperbole, at all. I think the team plays like it's terrified of making any mistake, and I think that's part of why the offense is so pathetically anemic. I think it's part of why they have nothing that even slightly looks like a forecheck. I think it's part of why the team sucks at zone entries. If you want to argue that the other part is because the players just aren't very good, I'd believe you, but I think it's clear that the coaching styles of the last five years aren't interested in what players are good at, so much as forcing a lot of round pegs into very tiny square holes.

I hope Bylsma, in his role, is not more of the same, in that regard. I don't think a bunch of dump-n-chasing, uncreative, defensively-minded players are going to win many cups, and I worry that, based on the coaches they're hiring and some of the talk about the types of players they want, that's the kind of team the front office wants to build.
 

Run the Jewels

Make Detroit Great Again
Jun 22, 2006
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Gallant disagrees.

I think this "beat kids over the head with their mistakes until they become so scared to make any that they stop playing anything even sort of approaching actual hockey" is absolutely asinine, and is a large part of why the team has stopped being fun to watch and why the kids we bring up tend to stagnate.
Hopefully once Holland is off to run Seattle and - dreaming big - we have a competent owner, I hope we can do a true rebuild and hire Gallant. The dream scenario is Yzerman + Gallant and NOT because they're former Wings; just because they are really, really good at their respective jobs.
 
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BogsDiamond

Anybody get 2 U yet?
Mar 16, 2008
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Hopefully once Holland is off to run Seattle and - dreaming big - we have a competent owner, I hope we can do a true rebuild and hire Gallant. The dream scenario is Yzerman + Gallant and NOT because they're former Wings; just because they are really, really good at their respective jobs.

I want this because they were former Wings.
Letting Nill and Yzerman go to keep KH is arguably the biggest mistake the Wings org has made in the past 30 years.
And that says something considering the Helm contract.
 

TCNorthstars

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I want this because they were former Wings.
Letting Nill and Yzerman go to keep KH is arguably the biggest mistake the Wings org has made in the past 30 years.
And that says something considering the Helm contract.

What exactly has Nill done that is worthy of keeping him over Holland? Yzerman I can see, but he still has no cups.
 

InjuredChoker

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Dec 25, 2011
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What exactly has Nill done that is worthy of keeping him over Holland? Yzerman I can see, but he still has no cups.

nill is a lot more aggressive on the trade market/FA which has led to some big hits for him... and also misses.

but the biggest problem with him in dallas has been that like kenny, he preaches ''draft and develop''... not a bad thing but then you better be actually good at it.. nill's been there for 5 years and their drafting has been pretty bad. our NA scouting sucked under nill and his chief scout in dallas too.

nill can stay in dallas.
 

Run the Jewels

Make Detroit Great Again
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What exactly has Nill done that is worthy of keeping him over Holland? Yzerman I can see, but he still has no cups.
Eh, Yzerman has turned Tampa into one of the top 5 teams in the league. He drafts very well and has done a nice job managing their salary cap. He makes shrewd trades. They may or may not win a Cup because shit happens, but he's turned Tampa into a really good franchise. Tampa!
 
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Perfect Human

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Dec 17, 2014
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On this note:
Is Cheli still a "press box" assistant coach for us? I was looking for confirmation today and didn't find a definitive answer
 

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