Player Discussion Juraj Slafkovsky, the high offensive potential edition.

[Jaynki]

Exactly, he's a good prospect that may be a key part of the future but there's no need to pretend like he's a regular 1st overall pick. Comparisons to Jack Hughes is really silly. He was 2nd on his team in scoring in year 2... We all know Slaf won't even sniff at that.

If we're being completely honest, is he really better NHLer than Ylonen right now? If the answer is defending the fact that Slafkovsky got rare talent, showed some things last season, and will be elite one day... It doesn't answer the question truthfully. If Slafkovsky is not really better than Pinard/Ylonen right now, he shouldn't be in NHL until he is better than those AHL graduates.

At this point, one could ask if Slafkovsky is better than Pezzetta.

Btw the comparison with Jack Hughes are just to establish a timeline of performance. Struggled in his 1st year, nothing indicative of a megastar. Then boom massive growth 2nd year then boom mega star ppg+.

So we will see if Slaf has this mega growth and you will see for yourself if he is better than Rhp and Ylonen even if we already have the f***ing obvious answer.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Price, Subban, Maxpac, Pleks all played in the AHL, so...............it warrants some conversation if he does not have a decent preseason.......that being said I think Slaf will be fine and everyone here can just relax.

Price was a 5OA and played in the AHL only after his final junior season ended (which is common), and then again for a small handful of games in the middle of his 20 yo rookie season, switching places with Halak, to make sure he could handle a larger workload before the club could trade Huet, who was on an expiring contract. Price started the season in the NHL as #2, and finished it as #1 after his recall and the Huet trade to Washington. Funny thing, his play in the AHL was not even that great (.896 SVP).

Subban was a 45th pick and had noticeable flaws he needed to work on, otherwise he would have been top-5, given his offensive skill.

MaxPac started in the AHL at 19 for a half season, then first graduated to the NHL just past his 20th birthday. However, he went back down to the AHL AFTER he was unable after 86 NHL games to hold down a 4th line role in the NHL and the team was trying to compete for a Cup. He was a 22OA pick so not surprising he needed some remedial work. He came up for good at age 22, started on the 4th line again, but moved up this time.

Plekanec was a 3rd round pick. He developed in the AHL from an initial 8th liner to eventually graduate to the Habs as a 4th oiner, then worked his way up the lineup. Very standard progression for a 3rd round pick with somewhat limited offensive tools in him. There were 70 guys drafted before him and very, very few of them skipped the AHL or Euro pro leagues through age 21 at least.

 

[417]

With which group does Slafkovsky fits better?

Not sure...but I've never been a fan of the "drip method" when you're trying to integrate prospects.

It's OK temporarily when you want to give them a taste, but it's almost always ends in disaster when they do try to employ the "drip method" (see Galchenyuk, Kotkaniemi).

If they're going to keep him in Montreal, than like Suzuki, Caufield, Guhle, Xhekaj, Harris...he has to play.

And before someone goes there, please don't point to the CHL games Suzuki and Guhle played post draft or the 1 NCAA season Caufield played post draft.

None of those leagues replicate the NHL experience.

 

[417]

Price, Subban, Maxpac, Pleks all played in the AHL, so...............it warrants some conversation if he does not have a decent preseason.......that being said I think Slaf will be fine and everyone here can just relax.

Suzuki, Caufield, Guhle, Xhekaj, Harris have a total of 8 AHL games between them.

And they're all pretty much considered cornerstone pieces of this organization (maybe less so for the latter 2).

 

[Jaynki]

Not sure...but I've never been a fan of the "drip method" when you're trying to integrate prospects.

It's OK temporarily when you want to give them a taste, but it's almost always ends in disaster when they do try to employ the "drip method" (see Galchenyuk, Kotkaniemi).

If they're going to keep him in Montreal, than like Suzuki, Caufield, Guhle, Xhekaj, Harris...he has to play.

And before someone goes there, please don't point to the CHL games Suzuki and Guhle played post draft or the 1 NCAA season Caufield played post draft.

None of those leagues replicate the NHL experience.

100% agree. KK case and Galchenyuk are different tho.

We misevaluated the 1st and the 2nd had obviously some concerns that unfortunately got the best of him.

I see no reason that Slaf would not have significant minutes this season.

If he keeps up like his pre season game, i believe he is about to have a look with suzuki and caufield

 

[BaseballCoach]

Meanwhile...there's a bunch of players who skipped the AHL all together who acclimated to the NHL pretty well according to many here, who are currently on the roster

Suzuki
Caufield
Guhle
Xhekaj
Harris

And, elsewhere, Dach and Dvorak (except for 2 games conditioning) and especially Monahan, a 6OA, who produced immediately at 18.

 

[417]

Exactly, he's a good prospect that may be a key part of the future but there's no need to pretend like he's a regular 1st overall pick. Comparisons to Jack Hughes is really silly. He was 2nd on his team in scoring in year 2... We all know Slaf won't even sniff at that.

I do agree that the comparison to Hughes is silly and really, comparing any player to another is silly as a rule.

But year 2, Jack Hughes led his team in TOI/GP in ES and PP.

Slaf won't sniff at that because that variable, is not likely to repeat itself on the Montreal Canadiens. He's not going to lead them in TOI/GP at even strength and the power play.

He's not even likely to be top 5 on the team amongst forwards in this context...so it would be silly to expect him to snif at that.

But maybe...that's the problem.

We draft these players for a specific reason but we hesitate giving them that platform to justify their selection.

If we're being completely honest, is he really better NHLer than Ylonen right now? If the answer is defending the fact that Slafkovsky got rare talent, showed some things last season, and will be elite one day... It doesn't answer the question truthfully. If Slafkovsky is not really better than Pinard/Ylonen right now, he shouldn't be in NHL until he is better than those AHL graduates.

Good question...Ylonen is another case of an offensive player, who is rarely afforded the ice time or opportunity to showcase his offensive talent.

So difficult to answer that question.

 

[Rapala]

- 6. Seider was seen as a reach and developed into a potential steal but he spent 2 years outside of NHL to start with and experienced a slump last year

God I hope we follow this path with Reinbacher.

 

[417]

100% agree. KK case and Galchenyuk are different tho.

We misevaluated the 1st and the 2nd had obviously some concerns that unfortunately got the best of him.

Sure...maybe there was some misevaluation but there was also some poor internal asset evaluation.

Under what scenario did it make sense to shelter Galchenyuk for so long, in favor of David Desharnais or a washed Tomas Plekanec?

It served no purpose other than thrusting this team into the middle of the pack, which I guess helped the coach and GM keep their jobs for so long.

But long term it hurt the team.

I see no reason that Slaf would not have significant minutes this season.

If he keeps up like his pre season game, i believe he is about to have a look with Suzuki and Caufield

I have my doubts...I can see the team playing the hell out of Tanner Pearson and/or Sean Monahan way before.

Thats just how they've done things historically.

 

[Rapala]

Good question...Ylonen is another case of an offensive player, who is rarely afforded the ice time or opportunity to showcase his offensive talent.

So difficult to answer that question

Well this isn't quite true. Ylonen was given every opportunity RHP had on multiple lines as well as some PP time and didn't run with it. Do you watch games?

 

[Gustave]

Suzuki, Caufield, Guhle, Xhekaj, Harris have a total of 8 AHL games between them.

And they're all pretty much considered cornerstone pieces of this organization (maybe less so for the latter 2).

The 8 games in the AHL are factual, yes.

But the point is more like; did they jump in the NHL right after being drafted, or did they have time to simmer in their respective junior leagues?

 

[417]

Well this isn't quite true. Ylonen was given every opportunity RHP had on multiple lines as well as some PP time and didn't run with it. Do you watch games?

Ylonen averaged 13:27 TOI/GP (16th amongst forwards last year on the Habs) and 1:07PP TOI/GP (15th amongst forwards last year on the Habs)

and really, only as a result of the crazy amount of injuries last year...they had no other choice.

Despite this very low usage rate, he managed to accumulate 16ots in 37 games. His points per game for players who played at least 30 games on the Habs last year was FOURTH behind only Belzile, Caufield and Suzuki.

Did YOU watch games?

I don't base my thoughts on "feels"...just facts my man.

 

[Rapala]

Ylonen averaged 13:27 TOI/GP (16th amongst forwards last year on the Habs) and 1:07PP TOI/GP (15th amongst forwards last year on the Habs)

and really, only as a result of the crazy amount of injuries last year...they had no other choice.

Did YOU watch games?

I don't base my thoughts on "feels"...just facts my man.

Yeah right his time was 13:27 for the very reason I stated he DIDN'T earn more. RHP did.

 

[417]

The 8 games in the AHL are factual, yes.

But the point is more like; did they jump in the NHL right after being drafted, or did they have time to simmer in their respective junior leagues?

Can we agree that their junior leagues are more or less on par with the professional leagues and international competitions that Slafkovsky played in?

Unless you're trying to tell me that a trip to Moose Jaw on a Friday night is more meaningful than a gold medal game for your country, in front of the entire world's eyes at the Olympics?

 

[SlafySZN]

Yeah right his time was 13:27 for the very reason i stated he DIDNT earn more. RHP did.

And still produced at a similar pace than RHP with no high shooting % to help boost the stats.

 

[417]

Yeah right his time was 13:27 for the very reason I stated he DIDN'T earn more. RHP did.

I'm not even sure what you're debating here...I didn't say anything about whether or not he deserved more icetime than RHP.

Whoever you're having this debate with, I suggest you respond to them.

 

[Rapala]

And still produced at a similar pace than RHP with no high shooting % ho help boost the stats.

But he didn't come close to RHP in terms of taking care of the small details that make an all round player.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Sure...maybe there was some misevaluation but there was also some poor internal asset evaluation.

Under what scenario did it make sense to shelter Galchenyuk for so long, in favor of David Desharnais or a washed Tomas Plekanec?

It served no purpose other than thrusting this team into the middle of the pack, which I guess helped the coach and GM keep their jobs for so long.

But long term it hurt the team.

I have my doubts...I can see the team playing the hell out of Tanner Pearson and/or Sean Monahan way before.

Thats just how they've done things historically.

I'm not sure its fair to judge current management based on what previous regimes have done.

MSL has said he wants to get Slaf more touches this season and he's being tested as a winger for both Newhook and Dach in the pre-season.

Playing veterans won't get this roster to middle of the pack either, it would keep them bottom 5.

Sure, Slaf didn't get much ice-time last season, but its not like it was a trend for young guys, it was closer to the exception. And the team has only gotten younger.

 

[Habitant#1]

The 8 games in the AHL are factual, yes.

But the point is more like; did they jump in the NHL right after being drafted, or did they have time to simmer in their respective junior leagues?

However, none of them played in the NHL at 18 or 19.

 

[417]

I'm not sure its fair to judge current management based on what previous regimes have done.

I'm not judging them based on what previous regimes have done.

I'm basing it on the fact that management is still very much in "asset accumulation mode" and that Tanner Pearson/Sean Monahan could potentially be two valuable assets at the deadline, so they will need to play.

MSL has said he wants to get Slaf more touches this season and he's being tested as a winger for both Newhook and Dach in the pre-season.

Playing veterans won't get this roster to middle of the pack either, it would keep them bottom 5.

Sure, Slaf didn't get much ice-time last season, but its not like it was a trend for young guys, it was closer to the exception. And the team has only gotten younger.

I have my doubts but i'm hoping to be pleasantly surprised.

Maybe jaded a tad.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

I'm looking to get into an argument, have I come to the right place?

 

[Naslundforever]

You have watched and analyzed the player for more than 50 games and you blame him for his strength, training, head up...

And this year, it's his stick ! Everything goes!

Add to that he didn’t finish yesterday’s games !

Last year, he wasn't the one who decided to be the first choice overall, he wasn't the one who decided he"ll stay in Montreal.

They put him in a situation where the pace of the game was to high for his skills, which made him vulnerable to contacts and injuries. Guest what ! 50 games a knee and out...

Bravo!

Who's responsible for the draft, the development, trainings, the management of the hockey opps. Who's responsible for the coherence of that organisations.

It's easy to blame the kid, but the problems are deeper than how he hold his stick!

Also he should keep his hands on his stick. Especially when covering a guy who has a step on him; he’ll get called.

No blame here, bud. I for one will absolutely love watching these kids get better with the years / seasons.

I have no ptsd of past management or development, not the same people and only the present is actual, the rest is bs.

 

[montreal]

this thread kind of reminds me of the KK threads.

 

[Naslundforever]

Do they need to chill though? Hughes specifically said they gave him non-production based milestones last year for his development and felt he was reaching them. It sounds like they have reasonable expectations for slaf that fans don't have.

My take is those talking about him being rushed are basing it off their own kpi and projecting those shortcomings onto other posters and management as shared facts.

 

[Scriptor]

this thread kind of reminds me of the KK threads.

Less talk about the mole.