GDT: Juego Siete: San Jose @ Colorado *Minus World* 9P ET / 7P MT

[Avsboy]

That's what we need, Compher being more of an asshole

 

[shadow1]

Donskoi still doesn't look the same after that concussion last year, but I'm glad he's producing.

He's a popular punching bag now, but last year people on his board were in love with him (but hated Burakovsky) until he went down with said concussion.

One important thing to take note is his line combinations by quarter last year, particularly Q3 and Q4...

3 - Landeskog - Compher - Donskoi
3- Calvert - Compher - Donskoi
3 - Nichsuhkin - Compher - Donskoi
4 - Jost - Compher - Donskoi
4 - Nieto - Compher - Donskoi
4 - Namestikov - Jost - Donskoi

Poor bastard...

 

[Pokecheque]

That's what we need, Compher being more of an asshole

I don't know about that. I kinda like him being a pest but I thought that chop he gave to Labanc at the end of the game there did little more than poke the bear for next game.

You can clearly tell Compher and Graves are really, really frustrated right now. It's pretty obvious they're both in the doghouse and I'm not sure either one is going to emerge from it anytime soon.

 

[Avsboy]

I don't know about that. I kinda like him being a pest but I thought that chop he gave to Labanc at the end of the game there did little more than poke the bear for next game.

You can clearly tell Compher and Graves are really, really frustrated right now. It's pretty obvious they're both in the doghouse and I'm not sure either one is going to emerge from it anytime soon.

You make good points about poking the bear and being perennially in the doghouse. Bednar doesn't really appreciate mucking it up with other players. But Compher needs a role to play and I think it should be enforcer.

 

[Pokecheque]

You make good points about poking the bear and being perennially in the doghouse. Bednar doesn't really appreciate mucking it up with other players. But Compher needs a role to play with his limited skill set. That role should be enforcer.

I think we have slightly different definitions of "enforcer." I don't think Compher can come even close to filling that role--enforcers are really a dying breed, the only real "goon" left in the league is Ryan Reaves. What I think you're implying is that Compher should be the Avalanche's "rat". Like Antoine Roussel or, God help us, Matt Cooke. And I don't think he's really equipped for that role, and as you say, I don't think Bednar likes that type of player. Kadri, when he's on his game, is much better at it anyway.

Yes, he should be crashing the net with more frequency, play a more scrappy game, but bottom line, he's being paid to be a secondary/tertiary scorer. He has the tools to make that happen, or at least the team thought he did. Last season was a disaster for JTC and he doesn't look like he's found his way back. I'm not sure he will either.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Excellent write up/analysis. To me by far the biggest takeaway from last night’s game was Bura’s importance to this team/lineup. Although he’s the sniper, he’s the engine of that 2nd line and what really sets the table for us for the whole bottom 9.

I would also add that EJ is like that for the d corp. You know those kids look up to Uncle Erik for guidance.

 

[The Kingslayer]

I think we have slightly different definitions of "enforcer." I don't think Compher can come even close to filling that role--enforcers are really a dying breed, the only real "goon" left in the league is Ryan Reaves. What I think you're implying is that Compher should be the Avalanche's "rat". Like Antoine Roussel or, God help us, Matt Cooke. And I don't think he's really equipped for that role, and as you say, I don't think Bednar likes that type of player. Kadri, when he's on his game, is much better at it anyway.

Yes, he should be crashing the net with more frequency, play a more scrappy game, but bottom line, he's being paid to be a secondary/tertiary scorer. He has the tools to make that happen, or at least the team thought he did. Last season was a disaster for JTC and he doesn't look like he's found his way back. I'm not sure he will either.

Is it the fact hes playing C that's causing this drop in play? I cant remember if he was the C for the roommates line or not or if each of them took turns. I don't want to say the contract contributed to this drop in play but his game has seem to decline from before the contract to after.

 

[Pokecheque]

Is it the fact hes playing C that's causing this drop in play? I cant remember if he was the C for the roommates line or not or if each of them took turns. I don't want to say the contract contributed to this drop in play but his game has seem to decline from before the contract to after.

He's definitely not fit to be a center, he's got that north/south game that's ideal for a grinding winger (preferably right side). He's also not a great playmaker. Also, I think we can admit the obvious now--Kerfoot was by far the best player of the three "Roomies." He has Jost's smarts and JTC's speed. With him gone, those two have been far, far less effective together.

So, yes, I think him playing center has part of it, but it doesn't explain all of it. When he started out, JT was shooting every chance he got. It didn't go in a lot but he forced the opposition to defend and created some secondary chances. He also, IIRC, won a lot of puck battles along the boards. I don't know what's going on with him right now but it just looks like he's turning the puck over on a shift-by-shift basis. It's probably a confidence thing but I wonder if there might be a lingering issue. Injuries have played a part in hampering his development, and maybe I'm exaggerating but he doesn't look as fast as he did in earlier seasons.

 

[The Kingslayer]

He's definitely not fit to be a center, he's got that north/south game that's ideal for a grinding winger (preferably right side). He's also not a great playmaker. Also, I think we can admit the obvious now--Kerfoot was by far the best player of the three "Roomies." He has Jost's smarts and JTC's speed. With him gone, those two have been far, far less effective together.

So, yes, I think him playing center has part of it, but it doesn't explain all of it. When he started out, JT was shooting every chance he got. It didn't go in a lot but he forced the opposition to defend and created some secondary chances. He also, IIRC, won a lot of puck battles along the boards. I don't know what's going on with him right now but it just looks like he's turning the puck over on a shift-by-shift basis. It's probably a confidence thing but I wonder if there might be a lingering issue. Injuries have played a part in hampering his development, and maybe I'm exaggerating but he doesn't look as fast as he did in earlier seasons.

Sad but true about the Kerfoot thing. Im not upset they got rid of him but of the 3 hes definitely the better hockey player. If Tyson Jost used Kerfoots stick he would probably be better but alas he opts for the Chara length.

 

[Avsboy]

I think we have slightly different definitions of "enforcer." I don't think Compher can come even close to filling that role--enforcers are really a dying breed, the only real "goon" left in the league is Ryan Reaves. What I think you're implying is that Compher should be the Avalanche's "rat". Like Antoine Roussel or, God help us, Matt Cooke. And I don't think he's really equipped for that role, and as you say, I don't think Bednar likes that type of player. Kadri, when he's on his game, is much better at it anyway.

Yes, he should be crashing the net with more frequency, play a more scrappy game, but bottom line, he's being paid to be a secondary/tertiary scorer. He has the tools to make that happen, or at least the team thought he did. Last season was a disaster for JTC and he doesn't look like he's found his way back. I'm not sure he will either.

I was joking a bit about him being an enforcer, but I would absolutely love a troll.

 

[forsbergavs32]

Meant to ask last night. Outside of his 2 goals, did Saad look more engaged last night? Missed the game so was curious if he looked better overall.

 

[The Kingslayer]

I was joking a bit about him being an enforcer, but I would absolutely love a troll.

Lol remember Mark Trolver. That dude was fun. He pissed people off.

 

[forsbergavs32]

Lol remember Mark Trolver. That dude was fun. He pissed people off.

Exactly who I thought of when the word troll came up

 

[Avsboy]

Meant to ask last night. Outside of his 2 goals, did Saad look more engaged last night? Missed the game so was curious if he looked better overall.

Right away he looked more engaged

 

[Richard88]

Donskoi still doesn't look the same after that concussion last year, but I'm glad he's producing.

He's a popular punching bag now, but last year people on his board were in love with him (but hated Burakovsky) until he went down with said concussion.

One important thing to take note is his line combinations by quarter last year, particularly Q3 and Q4...



Poor bastard...

I'm inclined to think that a better 3C would elevate Donskoi's play. He did pretty well with Kadri and Mackinnon in the first half of the season. Being paired with Compher for most of the 2nd half of the season certainly didn't do him any favours.

That said, he did also benefit a lot from more ice time in the 1st half of the season, so that was a big factor in production as well, not just linemates. He needs to be able to produce while only playing 3rd line minutes regardless of who his C is.

 

[Foppa2118]

Right away he looked more engaged

Saad has had moments this year where he's been engaged and playing well. He had a solid game 2 of the season after a poor game 1.

He just needs to be a bit more consistent and the lack of a full camp probably has at least something to do with that.

 

[AvsGuy]

Meant to ask last night. Outside of his 2 goals, did Saad look more engaged last night? Missed the game so was curious if he looked better overall.

Personally I did not think so, hard to argue with 2 goals but the man floats like a cloud out there

If you're standing still on the ice in an NHL game you're doing something wrong

 

[Foppa2118]

With the flat cap I don’t really see Compher as moveable. Donskoi might be moveable, but only for a similar contract.

This should tell you something about Donskoi. He costs $400k more than Compher with the same term, but is probably more tradeable. Yet he's a popular whipping boy for some.

If anyone deserves to use the concussion excuse it's Donskoi. He clearly wasn't the same player afterwards. I'm not sure why that shouldn't be cited as a reason.

The "he's streaky" thing is just as overused as the concussion thing. Every player outside the best is streaky. That's why they're not the best. Add a bad concussion on top of that and you get a player with two completely different seasons last year.

Donskoi is still a good middle six/3rd liner that can help the team win when he's on his game. When he's on his game he's very good at driving the net and potting in rebounds, and that's what you need in tight games when the high skill guys are getting shut down.

When he's not on his game, that's why you have 11 other forwards.

 

[The Abusement Park]

This should tell you something about Donskoi. He costs $400k more than Compher with the same term, but is probably more tradeable. Yet he's a popular whipping boy for some.

If anyone deserves to use the concussion excuse it's Donskoi. He clearly wasn't the same player afterwards. I'm not sure why that shouldn't be cited as a reason.

The "he's streaky" thing is just as overused as the concussion thing. Every player outside the best is streaky. That's why they're not the best. Add a bad concussion on top of that and you get a player with two completely different seasons last year.

Donskoi is still a good middle six/3rd liner that can help the team win when he's on his game. When he's on his game he's very good at driving the net and potting in rebounds, and that's what you need in tight games when the high skill guys are getting shut down.

When he's not on his game, that's why you have 11 other forwards.

The streaky stuff isn’t really overused with Donskoi because he’s been insanely streaky his entire career. Him going PPG for 10-15 games and then 30 games with a couple points is almost an annual occurrence for him. And that’s where the frustration comes in, you have a guy who’s okay at just about everything but is a good skater and is the streakiest dude in the league making basically 4mil a year. It’s just an overpayment that hampers our cap flexibility.

As for JTC he’s got his issues as well. Now granted he’s being shoehorned into a position he can’t play, but still he’s taking up 3.5mil when he struggles on the PP, PK, was terrible in the playoffs and isn’t even agitating. Both of them are fine players but are very much overpaid for what they bring and their money could be better spent elsewhere.

 

[Gatorbait19]

I would also add that EJ is like that for the d corp. You know those kids look up to Uncle Erik for guidance.

I had 3 takeaways:

1. Bura is extremely important to this team

2. EJ is also vital to this team

3. The sharks suck - I frankly don’t even think we played that great. We played well and got good bounces.

So again I think you’re spot on

 

[Richard88]

 

[SaltySkywalker]

Sharts is intentional

My sharts have never been intentional...

 

[Richard88]

I had 3 takeaways:

1. Bura is extremely important to this team

2. EJ is also vital to this team

3. The sharks suck - I frankly don’t even think we played that great. We played well and got good bounces.

So again I think you’re spot on

The advanced stats very much support what you're saying there.

As you can see in the table below, Sharks had more high danger chances than us (11-7) and also a slightly higher xGF (1.66 - 1.65), despite the fact that we dominated the flow of the game as seen by the Corsi. We certainly deserved to win on the balance of play, but it easily could have been a closer game based on the big scoring chances if SJ had gotten better goaltending.

The last two games have been pretty similar statistically, as we've had our best two games in terms of Corsi, but had the worst two games in terms of high danger chances against:

In our last 4 games we have 8, 9, 7, and 11 high danger chances against which is too high, so that will need to be cut out.

Against the Sharks the 2nd pair of Girard-Byram conceded the most chances at 5v5 with 4 of the 11 high danger chances against, not coincidentally when they were on the ice with Compher and Donskoi.

For the season Girard has conceded a team high 17 HDCA, but he's also created the 3rd highest HDCF from the blueline behind only Makar and Toews. Part of Girard's high HDCA stat can be chalked down to playing with Graves or a rookie (Byram/Timmins) most of the season. The analytics especially don't make for pretty reading if you're Ryan Graves:

 

[Foppa2118]

The streaky stuff isn’t really overused with Donskoi because he’s been insanely streaky his entire career. Him going PPG for 10-15 games and then 30 games with a couple points is almost an annual occurrence for him. And that’s where the frustration comes in, you have a guy who’s okay at just about everything but is a good skater and is the streakiest dude in the league making basically 4mil a year. It’s just an overpayment that hampers our cap flexibility.

As for JTC he’s got his issues as well. Now granted he’s being shoehorned into a position he can’t play, but still he’s taking up 3.5mil when he struggles on the PP, PK, was terrible in the playoffs and isn’t even agitating. Both of them are fine players but are very much overpaid for what they bring and their money could be better spent elsewhere.

My point is that every bottom sixer/middle sixer is streaky. That's why they're not top sixers.

It's understandable, but I think this board often forgets how bad the players the Avs used to employ in the roles currently, and how much better the guys they have now are. This applies to both defenseman like Graves and middle sixers/3rd liners like Donskoi.

Donskoi is an upgrade on most of the 3rd liners the Avs have employed in recent history.

Andrighetto, Rene Bourque, Colborne, Mitchell, Grigorenko, Brassard, Wilson, Compher, Nieto, Talbot, Kobasew, Tucker, Arnason, Galiardi, Briere, Hishon, Hensick, Sgarbossa, Martinsen, Rendulic, Kamenev, Agozzino, Porter, Yip, Grimaldi, Olver, Palushaj, Yakupov. I'd take Donskoi over Comeau too. Comeau was a better PKer but Donnie is a better skater, more skilled, and produced more.

All of these guys were streaky just like most 3rd liners too. The difference between Donskoi and them is he produces more points.

 

[The Abusement Park]

My point is that every bottom sixer/middle sixer is streaky. That's why they're not top sixers.

It's understandable, but I think this board often forgets how bad the players the Avs used to employ in the roles currently, and how much better the guys they have now are. This applies to both defenseman like Graves and middle sixers/3rd liners like Donskoi.

Donskoi is an upgrade on most of the 3rd liners the Avs have employed in recent history.

Andrighetto, Rene Bourque, Colborne, Mitchell, Grigorenko, Brassard, Wilson, Compher, Nieto, Talbot, Kobasew, Tucker, Arnason, Galiardi, Briere, Hishon, Hensick, Sgarbossa, Martinsen, Rendulic, Kamenev, Agozzino, Porter, Yip, Grimaldi, Olver, Palushaj, Yakupov. I'd take Donskoi over Comeau too. Comeau was a better PKer but Donnie is a better skater, more skilled, and produced more.

All of these guys were streaky just like most 3rd liners too. The difference between Donskoi and them is he produces more points.

I mean they’re absolutely better than what we’ve had in the past, but it’s different now and the expectations are different. I think the issue people have is that they’re streaky but don’t provide much outside of the offense they sometimes bring, Dong especially. Now it’s a little different with Compher because he’s being played out of position so his effectiveness will always be hampered.