Confirmed with Link: JT Compher Signs ELC

[Avs44]

Because Grigorenko is SUPPOSED to be a top 2 line player. Mitchell is supposed to be a bottom line player. Game is also not just points. Mitchell is a great PK'er. like I say, he holds the puck well (is actually known as a hog - but I disagree).

Mitchell does more than his normal job as a 4th liner would allow. Grigorneko has been in the league since 2012, is a 12th overall draft choice. He has 41 points in 142 games (with 12 goals).

They aren't like for like players, surely?

Grigorenko was a project who the Buffalo Sabres damn near destroyed. He is supposed to maybe be a second line player in the future. This year was a fantastic recovery season for him, so for you to use him not producing enough when given top 6 minutes as a critique, only to flip around and use Mitchell getting top 6 minutes (and producing less) as a mark of him being good, is quite hypocritical.


Furthermore, using Grigorenko's career stats against him, after the manner in which Buffalo used him, is ridiculous. He never should have been in the NHL, and before you try to use THAT against him as well, most 12th overall picks don't belong immediately in the NHL after being drafted, or even in the year after that. As I said, quite an agenda you have there.

 

[cgf]

Honestly, I would rather see Mitchell on that 4th line. Grigo just doesn't have the puck carrying ability that Mitchell does. Mitchell being a puck hog is good with linemates like that. But, with those 13 forwards I don't know why we are talking Mitchell/Grigo. McLeod seems to be a step below everyone.

I get what you're saying, but Greg has much better puck carrying ability than Malkin, when he chose to utilize it. Kid's got nifty hands.

 

[ABasin]

Grigorenko was a project who the Buffalo Sabres damn near destroyed. He is supposed to maybe be a second line player in the future. This year was a fantastic recovery season for him, so for you to use him not producing enough when given top 6 minutes as a critique, only to flip around and use Mitchell getting top 6 minutes (and producing less) as a mark of him being good, is quite hypocritical.


Furthermore, using Grigorenko's career stats against him, after the manner in which Buffalo used him, is ridiculous. He never should have been in the NHL, and before you try to use THAT against him as well, most 12th overall picks don't belong immediately in the NHL after being drafted, or even in the year after that. As I said, quite an agenda you have there.

I'm going to back Drizzt here a bit. IMO, Grigorenko has the largest gap between skill and production of any player on the Avs roster. 6 goals in 74 games for him is in fact pretty bad. Given minutes per game, he scored goals at a lower pace than McLeod, Skille, Wagner (who they put on waivers) and even frickin Martinsen (who sucks). And on no planet can any 2nd line player score 6 goals in a season and that be considered acceptable. Nor any 3rd line player, honestly.

That said, Grigorenko has good skating and stick skills. But then again so did Wolski, and he's been out of the NHL for years. Tough call right here and now. Grigorenko is tantalizing and interesting, but not terribly productive. Certainly worth rolling into next year with him in the plans, but he's got to show up from a production standpoint soon.

 

[Avs44]

I'm going to back Drizzt here a bit. IMO, Grigorenko has the largest gap between skill and production of any player on the Avs roster. 6 goals in 74 games for him is in fact pretty bad. Given minutes per game, he scored goals at a lower pace than McLeod, Skille, Wagner (who they put on waivers) and even frickin Martinsen (who sucks). And on no planet can any 2nd line player score 6 goals in a season and that be considered acceptable. Nor any 3rd line player, honestly.

That said, Grigorenko has good skating and stick skills. But then again so did Wolski, and he's been out of the NHL for years. Tough call right here and now. Grigorenko is tantalizing and interesting, but not terribly productive. Certainly worth rolling into next year with him in the plans, but he's got to show up from a production standpoint soon.

I said a second line player in the future, maybe. Grigorenko's 13 minutes and 16 seconds of ice time per game ranked 11th among Avs forwards. His 11 minutes of even strength ice time also ranked 11th on the club. His numbers may have not been acceptable for a second line forward, or his goals for even a third line forward, but his minutes were that of a borderline third liner / fourth liner, so I don't see the relevance of that point. Mitchell got more even strength time than Grigorenko, and even ignoring Grigorenko's four powerplay points, he still scored more than Mitchell did.


He's also a full decade younger than Mitchell, and considering this was something of a recovery season for him, I really don't get the 'Mitchell is easily better' argument that Drizzt seemed to have. Certainly no way we should be giving Mitchell a roster spot and benching Grigs off the bat next season.

 

[MonsterMack]

He absolutely needs to be more productive, but this season was the first real chance he got, so I'm giving him a pass on his production this year.

Edit: and making him ride the bench isn't going to help him develop into the player we hope he can be

 

[tigervixxxen]

I wouldn't judge Grigo on goals, though I understand if he's going to be a regular it has to be a bit higher than that. But his worth is going to be in his vision and playmaking and supporting the goal scorers on the team. I don't think anyone has a great handle on exactly what Grigo will settle into. He has an amazing amount of talent but he might bounce around on a few different lines for a while.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

I get what you're saying, but Greg has much better puck carrying ability than Malkin, when he chose to utilize it. Kid's got nifty hands.

He doesn't have the skating that Mitchell does though. Mitchell is surprising quick and really good at fighting through checks, checks that force Grigo to get rid of the puck. Grigo might be able to stick handle around a couple guys, but he can't hold onto the puck like Mitchell can for long periods of time.

 

[CobraAcesS]

He doesn't have the skating that Mitchell does though. Mitchell is surprising quick and really good at fighting through checks, checks that force Grigo to get rid of the puck. Grigo might be able to stick handle around a couple guys, but he can't hold onto the puck like Mitchell can for long periods of time.

While this is all true, in Mitchell's case it's not really a good thing most of the time lmao. Especially when hes being played on a line with players who should have the puck more than he does. Which easily happens on our third line right now.

Just think it's funny to point that out, with how much irony is also present in that statement all things considered lol.

I'd much rather have someone who passes the puck accurately and timely than someone who wheels around the ice with it resulting in nothing but padding fancy stats. Which is why I've always hated it when Mitchell was required to play higher than the 4th line from day one. Even when most people were ok with going into a season as him being the #1 option as the third line center. Ahh how things change when we start to get legit depth players that make him look like what he actually is and always was.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

I refer you back to my original post.

Honestly, I would rather see Mitchell on that 4th line. Grigo just doesn't have the puck carrying ability that Mitchell does. Mitchell being a puck hog is good with linemates like that. But, with those 13 forwards I don't know why we are talking Mitchell/Grigo. McLeod seems to be a step below everyone.

 

[CobraAcesS]

I refer you back to my original post.

Haha, fair enough

That makes the other post even more funny to me though.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

How so?

 

[tigervixxxen]

Can we get this convo back to Compher, please?

 

[CobraAcesS]

Can we get this convo back to Compher, please?

AWESOMENESS both now and expected! Not much left to say

 

[Sea Eagles]

Can we get this convo back to Compher, please?

I think it relates to Compher, because I suggested a kid like him needs to be thrust straight on a line with quality, productive line-mates.

In fact, I think that's where The Sabres went wrong with Grigorenko.

The last thing I want is Compher Centering Mcleod and Martinsen. You want to hinder the development of a productively gifted player - that's exactly what you do. That's also why Grigorenko is still recovering.

Another example: Nail Yakupov. Put that kid with other gifted players, watch him flourish.

For the record fellas, no way is Mitchell better than Grigorenko on the top 2 lines, and sorry if that is how I was coming across. That said, given the lines I suggested, Grigs would be the 7th player. Then again, Grigorenko isn't a bottom 6 player - which = 13th forward for mine.

 

[cgf]

I think it relates to Compher, because I suggested a kid like him needs to be thrust straight on a line with quality, productive line-mates.

In fact, I think that's where The Sabres went wrong with Grigorenko.

The last thing I want is Compher Centering Mcleod and Martinsen. You want to hinder the development of a productively gifted player - that's exactly what you do. That's also why Grigorenko is still recovering.

Another example: Nail Yakupov. Put that kid with other gifted players, watch him flourish.

For the record fellas, no way is Mitchell better than Grigorenko on the top 2 lines, and sorry if that is how I was coming across. That said, given the lines I suggested, Grigs would be the 7th player. Then again, Grigorenko isn't a bottom 6 player - which = 13th forward for mine.

Disagreed on every point.

 

[Tweaky]

First step in the ideal 2016 Avs offseason.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

I think it relates to Compher, because I suggested a kid like him needs to be thrust straight on a line with quality, productive line-mates.

In fact, I think that's where The Sabres went wrong with Grigorenko.

The last thing I want is Compher Centering Mcleod and Martinsen. You want to hinder the development of a productively gifted player - that's exactly what you do. That's also why Grigorenko is still recovering.

Another example: Nail Yakupov. Put that kid with other gifted players, watch him flourish.

For the record fellas, no way is Mitchell better than Grigorenko on the top 2 lines, and sorry if that is how I was coming across. That said, given the lines I suggested, Grigs would be the 7th player. Then again, Grigorenko isn't a bottom 6 player - which = 13th forward for mine.

I think Compher would actually fit well with 4th line type players. Obviously his production would take a hit, but his game fits a lot of styles. He even has the fiesty pest attitude.I doubt it would hinder his development.

 

[Fearnot]

Still bummed we didn't get to see him develop into a Sabre. Kids a natural leader with undying compete and it will be interesting to see how he works out for you guys, congratulations.

 

[ABasin]

I said a second line player in the future, maybe. Grigorenko's 13 minutes and 16 seconds of ice time per game ranked 11th among Avs forwards. His 11 minutes of even strength ice time also ranked 11th on the club. His numbers may have not been acceptable for a second line forward, or his goals for even a third line forward, but his minutes were that of a borderline third liner / fourth liner, so I don't see the relevance of that point. Mitchell got more even strength time than Grigorenko, and even ignoring Grigorenko's four powerplay points, he still scored more than Mitchell did.

He's also a full decade younger than Mitchell, and considering this was something of a recovery season for him, I really don't get the 'Mitchell is easily better' argument that Drizzt seemed to have. Certainly no way we should be giving Mitchell a roster spot and benching Grigs off the bat next season.

I don't disagree with any of that at all. But that said, it's not a given that Grigorenko is going to be a successful top 6 NHL forward. We'll never know if they don't play him there next season, but there are legitimate questions around that guy, IMO.

I'm cautiously optimistic. The skill set is there.

 

[ABasin]

Is it a proper expectation for Compher to be a good PK guy?

 

[Ivan13]

I don't disagree with any of that at all. But that said, it's not a given that Grigorenko is going to be a successful top 6 NHL forward. We'll never know if they don't play him there next season, but there are legitimate questions around that guy, IMO.

I'm cautiously optimistic. The skill set is there.

He should be given a chance in a scoring role, ahead of the likes of Mitchell, Comeau, etc.

Is it a proper expectation for Compher to be a good PK guy?

It is, he has a good motor, has an active stick and is in general a good defensive forward.

 

[Tweaky]

Still bummed we didn't get to see him develop into a Sabre. Kids a natural leader with undying compete and it will be interesting to see how he works out for you guys, congratulations.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, well, we gave you the fully developed, hit the potential ceiling, experienced but expensive version of him. :D

 

[agentblack]

Still bummed we didn't get to see him develop into a Sabre. Kids a natural leader with undying compete and it will be interesting to see how he works out for you guys, congratulations.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Yeah, well, we gave you the fully developed, hit the potential ceiling, experienced but expensive version of him.

Mcginn wasnt that expensive.

 

[Foppa2118]

I don't think McGinn is Compher's ceiling either. Especially if he stays at center. I like Ginner but JT has more potential and is more multi dimensional.