Player Discussion Josh Norris (C) 6’-1” - Part 3

[Sensinitis]

Really sucks for Norris. Has the potential to be a consistent 1B two way 30+30 guy with his ceiling even higher than that... Definitely feel for the dude.

The good news :
- when the inevitable happens, it will free up 8M in cap space
- the very promising progression of Pinto and Greig greatly softens this blow

I think we'll be good. I always wanted Pinto as the 2C in the medium term, this just seals it.

 

[Big Muddy]

Ya, I guess I was thinking in the context that he's medically cleared, but based on the scenario discussed, that would be unlikely to be the case. Nor does it seem to matter with how some of these teams handle it, seems like it'd be up to Josh and he can step away and collect.

Yes, Norris is covered and will get the money owing to him from his contract. It doesn’t seem likely he would retire and forfeit the money.

The situation is potentially more murky and problematic for the Senators though. If Norris has surgery and hopes he can play again at some point, the Senators will face a tricky situation. They could leave enough cap space to allow him to return to the lineup and be cap compliant when he returns, or they could spend money on other players (replacement, etc.) and have to subtract player(s)/cap hit when Norris returns.

 

[Big Muddy]

Really sucks for Norris. Has the potential to be a consistent 1B two way 30+30 guy with his ceiling even higher than that... Definitely feel for the dude.

The good news :
- when the inevitable happens, it will free up 8M in cap space
- the very promising progression of Pinto and Greig greatly softens this blow

I think we'll be good. I always wanted Pinto as the 2C in the medium term, this just seals it.

Not necessarily 8 m will be freed. How much cap space the Senators will have will depend on how close they are to the cap ceiling on the opening day of the regular season. It’s explained above in #1273. I’m sure they’ll try to get as close as they can to the cap ceiling though by the last day of the preseason.

 

[Good in Osgoode]

I highly doubt Norris doesn't want to try to continue playing.

I am curious to know if there are any other players in the league that have had 3 surgeries on one shoulder and have come back to play at an NHL-caliber level?

 

[bicboi64]

If Andlauer is willing to let cash flow like its water, we can always do what Vegas and TBL do. Keep him on LTIR until he's ready to play, but accumulate players to go over the cap throughout the year that might help us out. If Norris can return for the playoffs, he can help, if not, stay chillin.

 

[Speatleysson]

With bad luck comes good luck.. we'll either have a prospect over achieve and replace him (like Ostapchuk) or we'll win the lottery this year.

 

[DylanSensFan]

This situation reminds me of Steven Stamkos, although he had different surgeries.

 

[Tuna99]

If Andlauer is willing to let cash flow like its water, we can always do what Vegas and TBL do. Keep him on LTIR until he's ready to play, but accumulate players to go over the cap throughout the year that might help us out. If Norris can return for the playoffs, he can help, if not, stay chillin.

Norris comes back for the playoffs next year like Clarke MacCarthur?

 

[bicboi64]

Norris comes back for the playoffs next year like Clarke MacCarthur?

As much as I make light of the situation, I just hope he doesn't have anything that makes regular life difficult. Shoulders are different than CTE but hey, if he can come back in the playoffs and go off, that'd be dope

 

[Dionysus]

He is still young, so a recovery is possible. Maybe he takes all of next season off to rehab and strengthen, who knows. Really tough for Norris, feel bad for him.

The Sens are in a tough spot as well with the uncertainty around him. 8m is a big portion of your cap to be unsure about going forward.

Really hurts the center depth which was finally assembled when Pinto returned. Hopefully Stu, Pinto, Grieg keep progressing.

 

[Good in Osgoode]

He is still young, so a recovery is possible. Maybe he takes all of next season off to rehab and strengthen, who knows. Really tough for Norris, feel bad for him.

The Sens are in a tough spot as well with the uncertainty around him. 8m is a big portion of your cap to be unsure about going forward.

Really hurts the center depth which was finally assembled when Pinto returned. Hopefully Stu, Pinto, Grieg keep progressing.

In a scenario where Norris does take the year off to rehab and strengthen, what do we do at Centre?
Do we roll with Stu, Pinto & Greig?

 

[Tuna99]

In a scenario where Norris does take the year off to rehab and strengthen, what do we do at Centre?
Do we roll with Stu, Pinto & Greig?

Celebrini, Stu, Pinto

 

[Larionov]

It'll be interesting to see what is said coming out of this in the summer. I'll be waiting to see if we start hearing the same things we did about Klefbom post surgery. Seems like it quickly shifted into quality of life outside of hockey and Doctors weren't sure about it holding up in the NHL, and the writing was on the wall at that point.

Yeah, I get very distinct Klefbom vibes from this whole thing. Klefbom had another surgery also, and early on there was brave talk of him playing again...until one day there wasn't.

 

[Big Muddy]

If Andlauer is willing to let cash flow like its water, we can always do what Vegas and TBL do. Keep him on LTIR until he's ready to play, but accumulate players to go over the cap throughout the year that might help us out. If Norris can return for the playoffs, he can help, if not, stay chillin.

So, with this last sentence, you are saying keep Norris on LTIR for the entire regular season and just insert him into the lineup come playoffs. At least, I think its what you are saying.

What if Norris gets healthy again and wants to play during the regular season (or during training camp/preseason? The team might not be in a good bargaining position if that were to occur.

If you acquired the player via Free Agency, at least you won’t lose assets the first time (to acquire whomever from Free Agency) I suppose, so there’s that. They just might end up with a softer return when they have to deal that player away when Norris returns to the lineup which I suppose isn’t that bad if it didn’t cost anything but money to acquire the player in the first place. I’d think acquiring the additional player via trade could be quite costly though.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Yeah, I get very distinct Klefbom vibes from this whole thing. Klefbom had another surgery also, and early on there was brave talk of him playing again...until one day there wasn't.

Ya, I actually read up on it yesterday to see how it compared, just out of curiosity. One interesting note was that it bothered Klefbom for years and played through, and the surgery was done in large part to hopefully relieve that, but it seems like the surgery set in motion him not playing at all. Not sure how long he played with that discomfort and if it could have continued though. That doesn't seem to be the case with Josh, initially at least, but the talk that it was still bothering him all summer and how timid he obviously was, lends to the idea that he could have a chronic pain issue.

 

[bicboi64]

So, with this last sentence, you are saying keep Norris on LTIR for the entire regular season and just insert him into the lineup come playoffs. At least, I think its what you are saying.

What if Norris gets healthy again and wants to play during the regular season (or during training camp/preseason? The team might not be in a good bargaining position if that were to occur.

If you acquired the player via Free Agency, at least you won’t lose assets the first time (to acquire whomever from Free Agency) I suppose, so there’s that. They just might end up with a softer return when they have to deal that player away when Norris returns to the lineup which I suppose isn’t that bad if it didn’t cost anything but money to acquire the player in the first place. I’d think acquiring the additional player via trade could be quite costly though.

True, plus we might end up in a similar situation where the team has him on the roster expecting him to get hurt again. Wouldn't work

 

[Big Muddy]

True, plus we might end up in a similar situation where the team has him on the roster expecting him to get hurt again. Wouldn't work

Yes, I’d be particularly concerned about trading for a player to utilize the freed up cap space because there’s potential to lose twice: the initial assets involved acquiring the player via trade, and the 2nd instance where we need to free cap space with Norris returning and every GM in the league knowing we need to subtract a player.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Boy oh boy is it fun to be a fan of this team! I wish there were parts of this fandom that provided enjoyable entertainment value instead of this never-ending masochism we're living through forcibly.

 

[Larionov]

Yes, I’d be particularly concerned about trading for a player to utilize the freed up cap space because there’s potential to lose twice: the initial assets involved acquiring the player via trade, and the 2nd instance where we need to free cap space with Norris returning and every GM in the league knowing we need to subtract a player.

If the team has doctors who are certain based upon their exams and experience that Norris can't or shouldn't be playing again, then I think he can be pretty confident about using up the space. That's not going to change after all - either the joint is stable and strong enough or it isn't. I think this is all going to resolve itself by the start of training camp at the latest.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I didn't know Tarasenko had 3 surgeries on the same shoulder. Maybe there is light.

Blues' Tarasenko set for 3rd shoulder surgery, out 5 months

St. Louis Blues winger Vladimir Tarasenko will undergo surgery on his left shoulder once again and won't be evaluated...

www.usatoday.com

 

[Big Muddy]

If the team has doctors who are certain based upon their exams and experience that Norris can't or shouldn't be playing again, then I think he can be pretty confident about using up the space. That's not going to change after all - either the joint is stable and strong enough or it isn't. I think this is all going to resolve itself by the start of training camp at the latest.

I hope you are right that they have firm answers by the start of training camp. I have had shoulder injuries and doctors dealing with it. I guess I don’t have the same level of confidence as others may have. Hope for the best.

 

[Sun God Nika]

Assuming you are neither his doctor nor Josh Norris, I’m not sure where the assumption that “it’s the best situation for everyone involved” comes from.

Nah I’m just a sens fan looking out for the cap space of the team.

Don’t need much medical knowledge to understand his shoulder is fragile either. Like any procedures shoulder surgies carry risk of complications that include the development of arthritis down the line and infections.

 

[Golden_Jet]

He was already playing scared, avoiding contact, after two surgeries. How do you think he's going to play after a third?

Hope he makes the right decision and retires. Worst case, he decides to avoid all contact and become a Chris Tierney type player instead.

He’s not leaving all that money on the table.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Medically cleared is a bit of a nebulous concept imo; he can be medically cleared, with the understanding that he's at a high risk to re-injure the shoulder and have it impact his quality of life in a significant way going forward, for example. If he isn't comfortable with the elevated level of risk associated with playing, is he really cleared? From an insurance perspective, it gets muddier, but for the league to let him remain on LTIR, I can't see them challenging it

He would need a medical at each training camp, to determine if not healthy yet.

 

[PlayOn]

Nah I’m just a sens fan looking out for the cap space of the team.

Don’t need much medical knowledge to understand his shoulder is fragile either. Like any procedures shoulder surgies carry risk of complications that include the development of arthritis down the line and infections.

So it’s best for you, then.

I don’t think anyone questions whether his shoulder is fragile or not. But only Norris knows what’s best for him.