Player Discussion Josh Norris (C) 6’-1” - Part 3

[Korpse]

I think the problem is it's a case by case situation. Norris having 3 surgeries in the last 3-4 years or so....that's not a lot of time to recover and rebuild muscle.

Spread out the surgeries over a decade or longer, and you'd likely have better results. Also depends what part of the shoulder they're fixing, too.


Really sucks for Norris. I know the kid has money and is set for life and all, but he was on the road to having a decade+ career. I hope the surgery works out, but you have to think that shoulder will always be a big issue now. Even playing wing might not be enough to protect it.

Tarasenko had those 3 surgeries over the span of 28 months. He complained of issues of instability of the second surgery, which is likely what was going on with Norris at the start of the year. He also went with the same surgeon as Tarasenko for the third surgery. On the surface there is a lot of similarities. Right now it’s a wait and see but I think there’s reason to be cautiously optimistic.

Here is a good article with some quotes from the surgeon who claims he has never had a case of reoccurrence.

A chip on his shoulder: Vladimir Tarasenko's doctor says disgruntled Blues star is healthy and motivated

Tarasenko's doctor: "Vlad's shoulder is very stable and strong. ... There is no doubt, Vlad will be 100 percent ready" for next season.

theathletic.com

 

[harrisb]

Yes, Norris is covered and will get the money owing to him from his contract. It doesn’t seem likely he would retire and forfeit the money.

The situation is potentially more murky and problematic for the Senators though. If Norris has surgery and hopes he can play again at some point, the Senators will face a tricky situation. They could leave enough cap space to allow him to return to the lineup and be cap compliant when he returns, or they could spend money on other players (replacement, etc.) and have to subtract player(s)/cap hit when Norris returns.

There is wanting to return and being able to physically perform at the required level when your mind does not allow it. He never returned fully from the last one, became perimeter, didn’t engage, etc. If that is the player that returns he could be sent for conditioning to Belleville for an extended period, during which it proves that he can’t play at the level required. Then it is again up to Josh, play for Belleville or LTIR? Crap move but reality needs to take precedence.

 

[bicboi64]

maybe Vegas can take Norris and use his almost guaranteed LTIR every year before playoffs.

I'll take Whitecloud, Kolesar, and 1st rounder if we give them Norris.

Alright fine, a 2nd will suffice, but only if Vegas fully uses the LTIR trick

 

[R2010]

I think the problem is it's a case by case situation. Norris having 3 surgeries in the last 3-4 years or so....that's not a lot of time to recover and rebuild muscle.

Spread out the surgeries over a decade or longer, and you'd likely have better results. Also depends what part of the shoulder they're fixing, too.


Really sucks for Norris. I know the kid has money and is set for life and all, but he was on the road to having a decade+ career. I hope the surgery works out, but you have to think that shoulder will always be a big issue now. Even playing wing might not be enough to protect it.

I genuinely believe that if Norris had gone for surgery like the Sens doctors suggested the first time last year (instead of playing through it and rehabbing) then he'd have been in a much better position this year. He would've spent the summer training instead of rehabbing...

 

[JD1]

I genuinely believe that if Norris had gone for surgery like the Sens doctors suggested the first time last year (instead of playing through it and rehabbing) then he'd have been in a much better position this year. He would've spent the summer training instead of rehabbing...

Ya you might be right. 3 more months of strengthening might have done the trick

 

[Big Muddy]

There is wanting to return and being able to physically perform at the required level when your mind does not allow it. He never returned fully from the last one, became perimeter, didn’t engage, etc. If that is the player that returns he could be sent for conditioning to Belleville for an extended period, during which it proves that he can’t play at the level required. Then it is again up to Josh, play for Belleville or LTIR? Crap move but reality needs to take precedence.

I suppose there’s all kinds of things that we could speculate about, some of which are more likely than others.

 

[Knave]

Best of luck to Norris but Tarasenko is at a very different point in his career over the last few seasons after the surgeries and plays a very different game. I have no issues with how Tarasenko played for us but we simply need a lot more from Norris if he's going to be on the ice for us.

Maybe Norris is one of those lucky few but I'll have to see it to believe it.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Best of luck to Norris but Tarasenko is at a very different point in his career over the last few seasons after the surgeries and plays a very different game. I have no issues with how Tarasenko played for us but we simply need a lot more from Norris if he's going to be on the ice for us.

Maybe Norris is one of those lucky few but I'll have to see it to believe it.

Well Norris is also quite a bit younger than tarasenko was. And if this doctor is so confident in his surgery

I also disagree we would need much more from Norris. If he plays like tarasenko did this year at the center position for the next 6 years. Thats a very good second line Center.

 

[R2010]

Ya you might be right. 3 more months of strengthening might have done the trick

We'll never know now though!

 

[Mingus Dew]

Might be the worst contract that Dorion gave out and that's saying something.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

I would trade Norris in a hearbeat but he's virtually untradeable now. Even if he comes back and stays healthy the chances of him regaining the form that got him his contract aren't good. And that's a big if.

Worst case scenario . . . he comes back, stays healthy. Is half the player he was. 40-50 point forward with an anchor contract that can't be moved.

Given the Sens luck . . . that's probably what ends up happening.

 

[ottawagm]

I would trade Norris in a hearbeat but he's virtually untradeable now. Even if he comes back and stays healthy the chances of him regaining the form that got him his contract aren't good. And that's a big if.

Worst case scenario . . . he comes back, stays healthy. Is half the player he was. 40-50 point forward with an anchor contract that can't be moved.

Given the Sens luck . . . that's probably what ends up happening.

If Norris can actually take 1 timers after this surgery, then it's a success. His strength is that shot and he wasn't using it.

 

[redbrick98]

Can Sens just bury him Leafs style , like they did to Matt Murray Jeffrey Lupul

 

[thinkwild]

There's still a chance he makes it back in top form. Others have. Gotta hope for that. Dont envy his rehab though

 

[DrEasy]

If Norris can actually take 1 timers after this surgery, then it's a success. His strength is that shot and he wasn't using it.

He couldn't even accept a pass without the puck bouncing miles away from him. I'm not sure what role the shoulder plays in this but I'm hoping whatever is the issue it will be fixed when he returns.

 

[Ice-Tray]

There's still a chance he makes it back in top form. Others have. Gotta hope for that. Dont envy his rehab though

Agreed, and if he comes through this it will be a testament to his drive and dedication to his game and his career. That should bode well for his on ice play.

No reason to kick him while he’s down, a Josh Norris back to full health and two working shoulders was developing into a really nice player for us. We can definitely use him if he can get back to form, and we don’t have to worry about his salary for now.

Best of luck to the kid!

 

[JungleBeat]

Other than sniping goals he is invisible on the ice - if his bum shoulder stops his ability to score like that he’ll be useless.

 

[Cosmix]

Tarasenko had those 3 surgeries over the span of 28 months. He complained of issues of instability of the second surgery, which is likely what was going on with Norris at the start of the year. He also went with the same surgeon as Tarasenko for the third surgery. On the surface there is a lot of similarities. Right now it’s a wait and see but I think there’s reason to be cautiously optimistic.

Here is a good article with some quotes from the surgeon who claims he has never had a case of reoccurrence.

A chip on his shoulder: Vladimir Tarasenko's doctor says disgruntled Blues star is healthy and motivated

Tarasenko's doctor: "Vlad's shoulder is very stable and strong. ... There is no doubt, Vlad will be 100 percent ready" for next season.

theathletic.com

Interesting read about shoulder surgery.

The procedure that Tarasenko supposedly had is called the Latarjet-Bristow:

Latarjet-Bristow Procedures | ShoulderDoc

I am not aware of which type of surgery Norris had before nor had this time but it might be this one.

 

[Cosmix]

Found this interesting article on insurance coverage for NHL players:

Insurance Coverage in the NHL - Trans Canada Wealth Management

transcanadawealthmanagement.com

 

[Cosmix]

Also found this article on NHL Insurance Plan for Teams Contracts with Injured Players. It is dated 2008. I could not find any recent articles.

NHL Insurance Plan Covers Player Contracts For Seven Years

www.sportsbusinessjournal.com

 

[Cosmix]

Can Sens just bury him Leafs style , like they did to Matt Murray Jeffrey Lupul

If Andlauer can afford it.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Can Sens just bury him Leafs style , like they did to Matt Murray Jeffrey Lupul

They can't force him to LTIRetire if he passes his physical and desires to play, but there is clearly some sort of wiggle room with LTIR and injuries where if the team and player are on the same page a player with major issues that they could opt to play through but would also have enough risk to defend the act of putting that player on LTIR can LTIRetire with some level of certainty.

Technically, a lot of players probably have issues that could pass the scrutiny for LTIR because players are always playing hurt.

I don't recall all the ins and outs of the Clarke MacArthur situation, but that would be an example, where he has issues that qualified him for LTIR, but came back for that last playoff run because both sides were in the same page about him playing, and then went right back into LTIRetirement.

Norris has always been one of the leaders of the team in terms of physical conditioning. So if anybody can come back, maybe it's him. With that said, he has missed more than half of the last three seasons. Just speaking in generalities most people would probably bet on LTIRetirement in this kind of scenario.

If Andlauer can afford it.

It's possible that he isn't insured since he had shoulder issues dating back to College. It might be a pre-existing condition like Horton with his back where Columbus traded him for Clarkson because they figured better to pay 5M for a 4th liner than 5M for a player to never play again. Where as, the Leafs preferred the LTIR and have a bottomless pit of money.

 

[lancepitlick]

There is wanting to return and being able to physically perform at the required level when your mind does not allow it. He never returned fully from the last one, became perimeter, didn’t engage, etc. If that is the player that returns he could be sent for conditioning to Belleville for an extended period, during which it proves that he can’t play at the level required. Then it is again up to Josh, play for Belleville or LTIR? Crap move but reality needs to take precedence.

Dude, he was an NHL player this year, just not as good as he had been. There's zero chance he is capable of playing, but is relegated to the AHL permanently.

I think it'll end up that he can either play with his shoulder or he can't, whether temporary or permanently. When he plays he'll be OK (like a 3rd liner at worst, similar to this season). The longer he goes without reinjuring himself the better he'll be.

 

[GCK]

I heard something interesting yesterday. Apparently there was discussion between the team and Norris right at the start of camp about having another surgery because there was still some instability. Apparently neither the team or player (and entourage) were surprised the shoulder gave and they expect that it will be fine after getting post surgery reports. That would explain the way the situation was handled at camp.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I heard something interesting yesterday. Apparently there was discussion between the team and Norris right at the start of camp about having another surgery because there was still some instability. Apparently neither the team or player (and entourage) were surprised the shoulder gave and they expect that it will be fine after getting post surgery reports. That would explain the way the situation was handled at camp.

Wow that is pretty big news. Not sure I like it from the team's perspective but it could be part of Norris being slow to engage physically. That would be uncomfortable knowing it is more fragile than it should be.