Player Discussion: Josh Ho-Sang

[MJF]

There were a bunch of people that thought the Islanders were going to get an offer sheet compensation of a 7th round pick when a 7th round pick isn't a possible offer sheet compensation?

Offer sheet compensation starts at a 3rd round pick for an offer sheet of over 1.4m/year, and I kinda doubt anyone, much less a bunch of people, thought that anyone would offer him that.

There would be no offer sheet for Ho-Sang. If he had rejected his QO from the Isles, the Isles would have retained his NHL rights and been able to trade him for anything, including a 7th round pick.

 

[Sparksrus3]

What's he a 2014 draft pick? Its 2020,

Sleepy Head is so far in the special class of worst first round picks of that draft.ca

Sleepy head isn’t even the worst first round pick that year of the Islanders .

 

[MJF]

There were a bunch of people that thought the Islanders were going to get an offer sheet compensation of a 7th round pick when a 7th round pick isn't a possible offer sheet compensation?

Offer sheet compensation starts at a 3rd round pick for an offer sheet of over 1.4m/year, and I kinda doubt anyone, much less a bunch of people, thought that anyone would offer him that.

Duplicate post

 

[Seph]

There would be no offer sheet for Ho-Sang. If he had rejected his QO from the Isles, the Isles would have retained his NHL rights and been able to trade him for anything, including a 7th round pick.

Huh? I mean, we can still trade his rights, regardless of whether he is signed with us or we just hold his rights, so I don't see how him signing changes that. But I still don't recall a bunch of people thinking that we would trade him immediately, especially this soon after him clearing waivers and nothing really changing since then. I only recall people saying if he played and raised his value, we might be able to get an asset of some sort back to him.

 

[MJF]

Huh? I mean, we can still trade his rights, regardless of whether he is signed with us or we just hold his rights, so I don't see how him signing changes that. But I still don't recall a bunch of people thinking that we would trade him immediately, especially this soon after him clearing waivers and nothing really changing since then. I only recall people saying if he played and raised his value, we might be able to get an asset of some sort back to him.

We’re talking about 2 different things. A few posters thought that giving a QO was smart asset management because they also thought Ho-Sang would never sign it and we would retain his rights, and should he find another team we would then trade his rights for anything. Even a late round draft pick. That was the gist of the conversation, qualify Ho-Sang or just cut ties and let him walk.

 

[Seph]

We’re talking about 2 different things. A few posters thought that giving a QO was smart asset management because they also thought Ho-Sang would never sign it and we would retain his rights, and should he find another team we would then trade his rights for anything. Even a late round draft pick. That was the gist of the conversation, qualify Ho-Sang or just cut ties and let him walk.

Yes, but simply, I don't recall anyone saying that. I recall people saying if he played and raised his value, then he might able to be traded for an asset. Can you show me some examples of people thinking he could be traded for an asset without playing or signing or first? I looked at all the posts in this thread from his QO being tendered to the signing and couldn't find a single one, much less a bunch of them.

 

[MJF]

I think you’re losing the context of what I said originally. Remember I was one of the ones saying let him walk and become a UFA. So here’s you’re quote:

It costs nothing but the ink to print the offer and could lead to an asset down the road, even if it is just a late pick

 

[Seph]

I think you’re losing the context of what I said originally. Remember I was one of the ones saying let him walk and become a UFA. So here’s you’re quote:

Pretty sure you're the one that is missing the context here, since you seem to have intentionally left if out of my comment there. But no worries, I got you:

If he is already signed in the KHL and doesn't have an out clause, might as well make a QO to maintain his rights since he can't sign it anyway.

Well yeah, the point is he won't sign it, since he wouldn't be able to if he doesn't have an out clause. If he rebuilds his value in Russia then trade his rights for a pick, and if not, then we've lost nothing.

You can see with the context that the comment you quoted was made on the condition that he was already signed in the KHL, which turned out not to be the case. Then I clearly state he might be traded for a pick if he rebuilds his value while in Russia, which I can't see any real way he'd do without playing hockey. I'm not sure how you think this indicates anything other than him being traded only if he plays and raises his value just like I said I did recall people saying.

So, I'm still waiting for you to provide an example of someone saying he'd be traded without playing first and raising his value.

 

[MJF]

Pretty sure you're the one that is missing the context here, since you seem to have intentionally left if out of my comment there. But no worries, I got you:




You can see with the context that the comment you quoted was made on the condition that he was already signed in the KHL, which turned out not to be the case. Then I clearly state he might be traded for a pick if he rebuilds his value while in Russia, which I can't see any real way he'd do without playing hockey. I'm not sure how you think this indicates anything other than him being traded only if he plays and raises his value just like I said I did recall people saying.

So, I'm still waiting for you to provide an example of someone saying he'd be traded without playing first and raising his value.

Everyone assumed Ho-Sang was going to play in Europe this fall. You knew this, we all did. I don’t know why you’re trying to make a mountain out of a molehill.

 

[Isles72]

many say he's a good teammate so if thats the case give him another shot in b'port and if a crack in the door opens due to injury on the big club he'll be an option . I'd assume if Lou and Trotz had a meeting where they felt Ho-Sang could be coached into playing the system they'd at least attempt to make it work .

 

[Seph]

Everyone assumed Ho-Sang was going to play in Europe this fall. You knew this, we all did. I don’t know why you’re trying to make a mountain out of a molehill.

I thought it was likely, but certainly wasn't assuming that he would sign a contract in the KHL with no out clause. That's pretty obviously why I used the word "if," as the nature of the term acknowledges the possibility that the condition may not be the case. And even if you still think I did assume that would happen, it doesn't change that I clearly stated I thought he'd need to raise his value before he could be traded for anything.

Sorry if asking you to defend your claim is making a mountain out of a molehill to you, but it seems to me that whining about something you claim a bunch of people said but no one actually did is the worse case of exaggerating to make an issue out of nothing.

 

[YearlyLottery]

JHS is so dumb because if he would have just shut his mouth last year with all the injuries that happened we probably would have seen JHS up instead of Wahlstrom and Bellows. What a moron.

 

[MJF]

I thought it was likely, but certainly wasn't assuming that he would sign a contract in the KHL with no out clause. That's pretty obviously why I used the word "if," as the nature of the term acknowledges the possibility that the condition may not be the case. And even if you still think I did assume that would happen, it doesn't change that I clearly stated I thought he'd need to raise his value before he could be traded for anything.

Sorry if asking you to defend your claim is making a mountain out of a molehill to you, but it seems to me that whining about something you claim a bunch of people said but no one actually did is the worse case of exaggerating to make an issue out of nothing.

You're getting hung up on the minutiae of what qualifies as a bunch of posters instead of the overall message, that it would have been better that we cut ties and let Ho-Sang go on with his career. Since I'm not good at multiquoting I'll just give you the links to these posts:
Isles Prospect Talk 2020-21
Player Discussion: - Josh Ho-Sang 2019-20
Player Discussion: - Josh Ho-Sang 2019-20
Plus yourself makes 4 posters here who thought it was good asset management to qualify Ho-Sang. Whether that's a bunch, a few, or some, you can decide for yourself.

Again, the overall message is we would have been better letting Ho-Sang walk as a UFA rather than try to hold onto his rights for some future trade that would have likely been a late round draft pick. Now the Islanders and Ho-Sang are stuck with each other for another year, likely because Ho-Sang couldn't find a team in Europe.

 

[JKP]

I still can't believe how much time we spend talking about this guy... lol

 

[MJF]

I still can't believe how much time we spend talking about this guy... lol

It's silly isn't it.

 

[Throttle]

many say he's a good teammate so if thats the case give him another shot in b'port and if a crack in the door opens due to injury on the big club he'll be an option . I'd assume if Lou and Trotz had a meeting where they felt Ho-Sang could be coached into playing the system they'd at least attempt to make it work .

As opposed to when a player is a bad teammate, they say that too? No, because they rarely say that for obvious reasons.

 

[Throttle]

I still can't believe how much time we spend talking about this guy... lol

He's a wack-a-mole game on a loop.

 

[Throttle]

JHS is so dumb because if he would have just shut his mouth last year with all the injuries that happened we probably would have seen JHS up instead of Wahlstrom and Bellows. What a moron.

But I thought the organization needed to give him a chance?

 

[GOLFWANG]

IMO, he can still be an asset to this team. He still has a ton of talent that we have seen. His problems are his lack of hustle sometimes, holds onto the puck sometimes, and his turnovers which comes from holding onto the puck. All of these can be fixed and taught or even if he just gave it 100 percent at all times this can be fixed. His maturity is a different thing but the way some of the people are acting in this thread everyone was a saint in their early 20's. But he also can become more mature....will it happen who knows. If all of these things come together he can be a useful player whether it's in the NHL or AHL helping others develop by playing with decent talent. Hopefully he has learned in the past two years.

 

[Seph]

You're getting hung up on the minutiae of what qualifies as a bunch of posters instead of the overall message, that it would have been better that we cut ties and let Ho-Sang go on with his career. Since I'm not good at multiquoting I'll just give you the links to these posts:
Isles Prospect Talk 2020-21
Player Discussion: - Josh Ho-Sang 2019-20
Player Discussion: - Josh Ho-Sang 2019-20
Plus yourself makes 4 posters here who thought it was good asset management to qualify Ho-Sang. Whether that's a bunch, a few, or some, you can decide for yourself.

Again, the overall message is we would have been better letting Ho-Sang walk as a UFA rather than try to hold onto his rights for some future trade that would have likely been a late round draft pick. Now the Islanders and Ho-Sang are stuck with each other for another year, likely because Ho-Sang couldn't find a team in Europe.

Just hit the reply button on the comment and copy and paste the text there. Or could you at least copy and paste the quotes that you are referring to? Or provide the post number? I could not find a single poster saying we could trade him for a pick without him raising his value first in any of those links, so I don't know which posts you think are saying that we could. I also couldn't find any saying a QO is/would be great asset management as you claimed, either. And since I've already clarified for you with quotes that I only said he'd be tradeable for an asset if he raised his value first, you continuing to include me in the group of posters that supposedly said he could be traded without doing so just further weakens your claim.

Also, Lou of course knew Ho-Sang hadn't signed in Europe when he made the QO. Further, JHS did reject the QO, and then he and Lou negotiated and agreed on a new contract together. He is here because Lou wanted to keep him here.

 

[Newsworthy]

JHS is a likeable guy. He also has skill but lacks maturity. I feel like a fire will be lit under him and he will still be an asset somewhere in the NHL. He knows what's at stake and normally those players need a change of scenery to adjust. I rather JHS just play for the Islanders. As someone said with all the injuries and such. I think we all have a a little JHS in us. Just needs to simplify his game and he will be alright. That draft was not great league wide and as noted earlier MDC was picked fifth overall.

 

[MJF]

Just hit the reply button on the comment and copy and paste the text there. Or could you at least copy and paste the quotes that you are referring to? Or provide the post number? I could not find a single poster saying we could trade him for a pick without him raising his value first in any of those links, so I don't know which posts you think are saying that we could. I also couldn't find any saying a QO is/would be great asset management as you claimed, either. And since I've already clarified for you with quotes that I only said he'd be tradeable for an asset if he raised his value first, you continuing to include me in the group of posters that supposedly said he could be traded without doing so just further weakens your claim.

Also, Lou of course knew Ho-Sang hadn't signed in Europe when he made the QO. Further, JHS did reject the QO, and then he and Lou negotiated and agreed on a new contract together. He is here because Lou wanted to keep him here.

Post 9 Isles Prospect Talk 2020-21
Post 353 Player Discussion: - Josh Ho-Sang 2019-20
Post 387 Player Discussion: - Josh Ho-Sang 2019-20

Also here's a blog post that thinks QOing Ho-Sang was good asset management.
Islanders: Reasons Lou Lamoriello would qualify RFA Josh Ho-Sang

There are other bloggers on Twitter who felt the same way.

Where you jumped in on this was me saying the Isles would end up moving him for a 7th round pick. It was always predicated on Ho-Sang going to Europe and building his game back up, then coming back to the NHL as a late season acquisition for another team and us probably only being able to get a late round pick for him. This is the last I'm going to say about this because we've wasted enough time having me "defend my statement". No need to derail the conversation any further.

As for your last statement, I don't buy that Ho-Sang is here because Lou wanted to keep him here playing for the Islanders. I think Lou QO'd him with the idea that Ho-Sang would continue to try to find another team in Europe to play for once his KHL prospect fizzled out. This was all about getting something, even draft capital, for JHS somewhere down the road. Ho-Sang being here now is like a couple staying married because neither one can afford to buy out the other from the house they own jointly and having nowhere else to go. Lou and JHS agreed to a contract because the wheels were already set in motion by Lou and then Ho-Sang requesting arbitration.

 

[Newsworthy]

Post 9 Isles Prospect Talk 2020-21
Post 353 Player Discussion: - Josh Ho-Sang 2019-20
Post 387 Player Discussion: - Josh Ho-Sang 2019-20

Also here's a blog post that thinks QOing Ho-Sang was good asset management.
Islanders: Reasons Lou Lamoriello would qualify RFA Josh Ho-Sang

There are other bloggers on Twitter who felt the same way.

Where you jumped in on this was me saying the Isles would end up moving him for a 7th round pick. It was always predicated on Ho-Sang going to Europe and building his game back up, then coming back to the NHL as a late season acquisition for another team and us probably only being able to get a late round pick for him. This is the last I'm going to say about this because we've wasted enough time having me "defend my statement". No need to derail the conversation any further.

As for your last statement, I don't buy that Ho-Sang is here because Lou wanted to keep him here playing for the Islanders. I think Lou QO'd him with the idea that Ho-Sang would continue to try to find another team in Europe to play for once his KHL prospect fizzled out. This was all about getting something, even draft capital, for JHS somewhere down the road. Ho-Sang being here now is like a couple staying married because neither one can afford to buy out the other from the house they own jointly and having nowhere else to go. Lou and JHS agreed to a contract because the wheels were already set in motion by Lou and then Ho-Sang requesting arbitration.

I don't buy that Lou made a business decision solely.

 

[ThreeLeftSkates]

JHS is a likeable guy. He also has skill but lacks maturity. I feel like a fire will be lit under him and he will still be an asset somewhere in the NHL. He knows what's at stake and normally those players need a change of scenery to adjust. I rather JHS just play for the Islanders. As someone said with all the injuries and such. I think we all have a a little JHS in us. Just needs to simplify his game and he will be alright. That draft was not great league wide and as noted earlier MDC was picked fifth overall.

Up until now, he has been unable to adjust his game to please Trotz. That will keep him out of the lineup.

 

[Newsworthy]

Up until now, he has been unable to adjust his game to please Trotz. That will keep him out of the lineup.

Maybe so but when the Islanders have trouble keeping up with faster teams and have trouble scoring goals fans will be up in arms when MDC is in the line up and JHS is in Bridgeport lighting it up.