Speculation: Josh Gorges $3.9M/6 years Bad Contract or Good?

[Forlando]

You say it's perception, but no, it's not. Gorges is bad for the transition. He doesn't have a great first pass, it's merely adequate. He doesn't skate with the puck and can't open passing lanes that way. He doesn't have great hockey sense offensively. This is not perception. Those are facts.

Gorges transition game plan: (a) Where is PK? (b) Where is the glass wall? and (c) **** !! (that's his reaction after being plastered against the wall for taking too long to decide between options a and b).

 

[Cole Caulifield]

Gorges transition game plan: (a) Where is PK? (b) Where is the glass wall? and (c) **** !! (that's his reaction after being plastered against the wall for taking too long to decide between options a and b).

I wonder if it'll be Markov or Emelin playing with Subban. Will be interesting to see.

 

[Burke the Legend]

Sorry to say this but Emelin has reached his ceiling as well. He's 28 years old, his skill set is pretty much set by now.

Well I am not so sure and it seems like the Habs brass isn't either between clearing a spot on LD for him and giving him that 4 year contract.

He has been in the NHL 3 years now and has had to deal with a bunch of injuries, adapting to NA ice size, and playing awkwardly on RD. This season, on LD, and hopefully staying healthy, he is being primed for a breakout year, time to delivers.

 

[HabsHockey*]

Well I am not so sure and it seems like the Habs brass isn't either between clearing a spot on LD for him and giving him that 4 year contract.

He has been in the NHL 3 years now and has had to deal with a bunch of injuries, adapting to NA ice size, and playing awkwardly on RD. This season, on LD, and hopefully staying healthy, he is being primed for a breakout year, time to delivers.

Habs management doesn't always make smart decisions, especially with Emelin when he was injured. IMO they jumped the gun. I don't think anyone was going to offer him anything remotely close to that while he was injured. They could've went shorter term and less money.

Don't expect anything out of the ordinary... depending on his pairing.

 

[Kriss E]

I wonder if it'll be Markov or Emelin playing with Subban. Will be interesting to see.

I hope it's Markov.

 

[PricePkPatch*]

I hope it's Markov.

I hope Subban-Emelin proves formidable enough to be a first pairing.

Would make a second pairing of Markov-Gilbert redunculus

 

[Redux91]

I hope Subban-Emelin proves formidable enough to be a first pairing.

Would make a second pairing of Markov-Gilbert redunculus

i also see it this way

having markov as 2nd pairing would greatly reduce all-season long wear n tear, at markovs age, being the 9th most utilized player in the entire NHL is just too much on him come playoff time, he was just horrible in the rangers series

however, ..can emelin handle the EXTRA minutes, eesh, remains to be seen, i think we'll see some switch arounds during the season still tho

the thought is subbans excellency can help emelin look decent, and exactly the same thing with markov making gilbert look better

 

[ECWHSWI]

Sigh...Sometimes I feel like I need to explain every single detail... because people kind feel lazy to think...

Weaver will take on Gorges minutes as first PK Dman.....and P.K. and or Gilbert will take on the minutes that Weaver/Murray used to play....

Capisce now?

on the 29th PK in the league and 2nd worst defense in the league, Tom Gilbert got less than a minute of PK per game...

so, since thinking is your thing, maybe you can tell everyone how good of a replacement Gilbert will be considering he's taking the spot of the D who played the most minutes on the 4th PK in the league last season ?

 

[Kachino]

Oh man, I honestly think this thread is going to be on-going for the next years . I can already see a lot of posters coming back here for and against Gorges. Will be interesting

 

[Mr. Hab]

I'm not a huge fan of either Gorges or Emelin, but to abuse a hfboards cliche, Emelin has more 'potential'. He still has room to become a better defender by improving his timing while defending the rush, and has better puck moving skills which can also improve with confidence & experience. Gorges clearly has plateaud. So it makes Emelin a much more compelling player to keep, and you need to roll the dice a bit, because you need guys like Alexie to make big plays in the playoffs, deep in a series when teams have zeroed in on PK & Markov and are pinning them down.

I like your post...very positive.
I hope this is what will happen (above info).
I've always been skeptical of Emelin's Defense 101 (with or without the puck...positioning/where to be,etc). I hope you're right about Emelin and what management probably feels,etc. Cheers!

Habs management doesn't always make smart decisions, especially with Emelin when he was injured. IMO they jumped the gun. I don't think anyone was going to offer him anything remotely close to that while he was injured. They could've went shorter term and less money.

Don't expect anything out of the ordinary... depending on his pairing.

Yup, part of me feels this also (signed him waaaay too early), but Emelin did bounce back well or well enough!, imo.

I'll (for now) stay in between your opinion and Burke the Legend's opinion. Time will tell (whether keeping Emelin OVER Gorges was the right decision,etc), but...I still think we need to improve our #2-3-4 spots...very obvious, imo.
But, I like our #5-6-7 spots (Weaver, Tinordi, Beaulieu). Heck...with many injuries I could see Weaver doing well in the #4 spot, but we'd all prefer him in the #5 spot. Hence why we really need to improve our #2-3-4 spots...Bergevin to the rescue (hopefully with time).

Oh man, I honestly think this thread is going to be on-going for the next years . I can already see a lot of posters coming back here for and against Gorges. Will be interesting

Yup! I was hard on Gorges since he signed his BIG contract, but I liked him in playoffs VS Tampa and VS Boston...he was ok/decent VS Rangers.

I like the fact that he can play well on the RIGHT side (and was always a playoff warrior), but is still overpaid at $3.9mil/year. Then again...so many dmen are overpaid...salaries are ludicrous. Grabovski making 5mil/year?!!! Meszaros making 4.1mil/year????!!!!! And so much more... what the ****!!!!

 

[Andrei79]

Oh man, I honestly think this thread is going to be on-going for the next years . I can already see a lot of posters coming back here for and against Gorges. Will be interesting

Doubt it. Despite all the good things Gorges did for the organization, he cracked 20 points only once. He'll be as missed as Rivet was, so not at all.

 

[Andrei79]

on the 29th PK in the league and 2nd worst defense in the league, Tom Gilbert got less than a minute of PK per game...

so, since thinking is your thing, maybe you can tell everyone how good of a replacement Gilbert will be considering he's taking the spot of the D who played the most minutes on the 4th PK in the league last season ?

Probably perfectly fine considering the 4th PK in the league was entirely lead by its goaltender.

 

[Nynja*]

Doubt it. Despite all the good things Gorges did for the organization, he cracked 20 points only once. He'll be as missed as Rivet was, so not at all.

And here we have the low IQ hockey poster: quantifying a D-man's utility based entirely on points.

Did you know Carey Price scored 0 goals this year? ZERO GOALS!! Better trade him for Cam Ward or Mike Smith, who was able to score a goal. Wait, Brodeur has three goals, THREE!! He's still unsigned, better get him.


Doughty wound up with 37 points in the regular season, thats HALF of Karlsson's 74 points. Doughty sucks.

 

[Burke the Legend]

And here we have the low IQ hockey poster: quantifying a D-man's utility based entirely on points.

Did you know Carey Price scored 0 goals this year? ZERO GOALS!! Better trade him for Cam Ward or Mike Smith, who was able to score a goal. Wait, Brodeur has three goals, THREE!! He's still unsigned, better get him.


Doughty wound up with 37 points in the regular season, thats HALF of Karlsson's 74 points. Doughty sucks.

Stop acting like a child, of course points matter for a D-man within context. Putting up only 10-15 points and 1-2 goals per year is a valid reflection of Gorges inability to do much that's offensively productive with the puck, which is a knock against his overall game.

 

[Nynja*]

Stop acting like a child, of course points matter for a D-man within context. Putting up only 10-15 points and 1-2 goals per year is a valid reflection of Gorges inability to do much that's offensively productive with the puck, which is a knock against his overall game.

I'd rather he put 10 points and be defensively responsible instead of 40 points and being defensively irresponsible. If you'd rather 74 point Karlsson, who is effectively, a pylon, sure, go ahead. Enjoy not making the playoffs.

 

[Sorinth]

Stop acting like a child, of course points matter for a D-man within context. Putting up only 10-15 points and 1-2 goals per year is a valid reflection of Gorges inability to do much that's offensively productive with the puck, which is a knock against his overall game.

Is Drew Doughty's 37 points on knock against his overall game? I mean when compared to his peers (Other #1 D) it's one of the lowest point totals, is he the weakest offensively among #1 D?

 

[HabsHockey*]

Stop acting like a child, of course points matter for a D-man within context. Putting up only 10-15 points and 1-2 goals per year is a valid reflection of Gorges inability to do much that's offensively productive with the puck, which is a knock against his overall game.

Considering that our top point getters barely make it to 60 points each year and he was our go to defensive D, 15 points is actually the norm when on the Habs.

 

[Adriatic]

Considering that our top point getters barely make it to 60 points each year and he was our go to defensive D, 15 points is actually the norm when on the Habs.

The problem is not that he only gets 15 points, it's that he was our go to defensive D. If he really was a defensive stud his point totals wouldn't matter, but he's not.

 

[HabsHockey*]

The problem is not that he only gets 15 points, it's that he was our go to defensive D. If he really was a defensive stud his point totals wouldn't matter, but he's not.

...and we still don't have one now. No one on the current team is "that"much better in playing Gorges role. The post i was quoting was in reference to a 15 point total which if you go back through the years, is actually pretty normal for a Habs defenseman... especially one with the minutes that Gorges had with the team.

 

[Seb]

Gorges' defensive play wasn't nearly as effective in the past 2 years as it was before. He was being a liability lately. With the way he plays, I don't see him go back to his old form ever. He's past his prime and injuries will catch on.

It sucks because he has been valuable with us so far, but his contract sucks and he's on decline so it was the right move to trade him.

 

[Adriatic]

...and we still don't have one now. No one on the current team is "that"much better in playing Gorges role. The post i was quoting was in reference to a 15 point total which if you go back through the years, is actually pretty normal for a Habs defenseman... especially one with the minutes that Gorges had with the team.

I don't know what Bergevin and his team are thinking, but I'm pretty sure they are confident they can replace whatever Gorges brought to this team. Whether it's Weaver, Tinordi, Pateryn or a combination of players...I don't think they are too worried. His departure at least gives the opportunity for another player to take that role, who's younger and cheaper. Even if it's a step back or sideways for the moment, it's better in the long run because we need to get bigger, faster and more physical on defense.

 

[LePoche69]

I always envisionned Gorges as "the perfect #6 d-man", the type of steady player a team never has to rotate with the #7, which is fairly cool for a coaching staf, and good enough to step into the top 4 for short streches because of injuries.

Those type of d-men are a dream come true and a pretty rare commodity, believe it or not.

Gorges is only above average in blocking shots. Slightly above average on the PK, and average at 1 vs 1 situations. For all the other aspects, he's below average. But yet, the full package is good enough to be a d-man that never has to be put in the stands.

He had his career years in Montreal, meaning that for a short while, he may have been confused with a top 4 d-man. The problem the last 2 years is that he had the salary of a top 4 but for a game that was more and more suiting a #6 reality.

Bergevin may have trade him 1 year too soon. But it is better than 1 year too late.

 

[sharks9]

Gorges is only above average in blocking shots. Slightly above average on the PK, and average at 1 vs 1 situations. For all the other aspects, he's below average. But yet, the full package is good enough to be a d-man that never has to be put in the stands.

Top-10 in blocked shots every year = "only above average" now?
Top minutes on one of the best PKs in the league = slightly above average?

You're massively underrating Gorges. He wouldn't be in the stands on any team in the league and for the vast majority, if not all, he would be in their top-4.

 

[HabsHockey*]

I don't know what Bergevin and his team are thinking, but I'm pretty sure they are confident they can replace whatever Gorges brought to this team. Whether it's Weaver, Tinordi, Pateryn or a combination of players...I don't think they are too worried. His departure at least gives the opportunity for another player to take that role, who's younger and cheaper. Even if it's a step back or sideways for the moment, it's better in the long run because we need to get bigger, faster and more physical on defense.

Ok but what does this all have to do with Gorges getting 15 points because of his offensive ability when compared to his TOI? You're kind of veering off the discussion I quoted.

With our current core, we aren't getting bigger/faster/more physical for at least 3 years unless we start trading.

 

[Adriatic]

Top-10 in blocked shots every year = "only above average" now?
Top minutes on one of the best PKs in the league = slightly above average?

You're massively underrating Gorges. He wouldn't be in the stands on any team in the league and for the vast majority, if not all, he would be in their top-4.

Yes he would be top 4 on a team that has no shot of winning anything, like he is now. Anybody thinking of contending would not have him in top 4.