Speculation: Josh Gorges $3.9M/6 years Bad Contract or Good?

[Binary Code]

really ?

with garbage Gorges on our 1st pair we managed 100+ or equivalent last two seasons, including an ECF appearance...

so yeah, using the better player, Weaver, make sense.

Thank you Subban, Eh?

 

[Forlando]

can't wait to see Weaver try to do better on a 1st pair against the toughest matchups.

Who the **** said Weaver is Gorges replacement????? Gilbert is.

 

[Patccmoi]

Who the **** said Weaver is Gorges replacement????? Gilbert is.

I'm pretty sure they didn't go get a righty D-man to put him with one of the few good righty d-man we have.

Considering how they said they wanted to put Emelin back on his side, which means they'll split him from Markov, I'd expect him to be with Subban. Markov with Gilbert, and Weaver with Tinordi/Beaulieu.

 

[Ezpz]

Who the **** said Weaver is Gorges replacement????? Gilbert is.

Gilbert won't be playing anything remotely close to the role Gorges played. Weaver is most certainly the replacement.

 

[HabsHockey*]

Who the **** said Weaver is Gorges replacement????? Gilbert is.

Gilbert won't play the same role. Weaver will.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

Markov or Emelin will be Subban's partner 5v5.
Gilbert will replace Gorges' 5v5 minutes but not with Subban.
Weaver will play Gorges' PK minutes.

You guys are all correct !

 

[Forlando]

His replacement on the TOP FOUR....I thought it was obvious what I meant. He can't replace Gorges, because he plays right and Gorges plays left.

Weaver is not Gorges replacement in the TOP FOUR (as someone else implied) and that is what I was answering to.

 

[Forlando]

Gilbert won't be playing anything remotely close to the role Gorges played. Weaver is most certainly the replacement.

Wrong. Weaver is Gorges replacement in the penalty kill. Gilbert is Gorges replacement in the top four. Emelin is Gorges replacement on the left side.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Wrong. Weaver is Gorges replacement in the penalty kill. Gilbert is Gorges replacement in the top four. Emelin is Gorges replacement on the left side.

Weaver was already playing the PK last season...

 

[overlords]

Gilbert won't play the same role. Weaver will.

You think they'll match up Mike Weaver with the top opposition shutdown minutes?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

You think they'll match up Mike Weaver with the top opposition shutdown minutes?

With Therrien coaching?

You never know.

 

[overlords]

Getting the puck out, first passes, generating offensive, cycling the puck and generally being good in the transition game... all those things are things that Gorges was below average at....if you get a Dman that can actually do those things then you reduce the opposition scoring chances, because it is kinda hard to score when the other team is coming at you like a viking warband.

Gorges was very effective at not being able to get the puck out of our zone...

So you would think that if that were true, that he'd be on for more shots/chances against, but he generally isn't. In fact, gorges was usually the best on our team at reducing chances against. Funny how nobody addresses this.

Perception is a funny thing.

 

[BLONG7]

A shot blocker that gets a hell of a lot more praise than deserved. Some people actually believe he's a top paring dman. Gorges has been atrocious the last 2 years.

Most have noticed, but not all.....he's been less than avg since signing the contract for 3.9M per...

 

[ECWHSWI]

So you would think that if that were true, that he'd be on for more shots/chances against, but he generally isn't. In fact, gorges was usually the best on our team at reducing chances against. Funny how nobody addresses this.

Perception is a funny thing.

dont you know...

Gorges has been playing 1st pair last two seasons on a team who got 100 pts, and went to the ECF... but on a good team he'd only be a 5th or 6th D

 

[Habs]

This

I guess you missed the Kirk Muller and Koivu departures? He didn't want to play in another diehard market, and face his old team on a national rivalry... nothing but a smart move for him... I think you are reading more into it than you should.

Why would he want to goto a market like Toronto at this point of his career? It wasn't because of his love of Montreal. He'll probably have a horrific year in Buffalo, not because he's bad.. but you know..it's Buffalo.

 

[Forlando]

Weaver was already playing the PK last season...

Sigh...Sometimes I feel like I need to explain every single detail... because people kind feel lazy to think...

Weaver will take on Gorges minutes as first PK Dman.....and P.K. and or Gilbert will take on the minutes that Weaver/Murray used to play....

Capisce now?

 

[Big Lurk]

How can some people not get it through their heads that what weaver does against low end competition, gorges does against the top end. Even better, actually.

But hey, who the **** cares about avoiding scoring chances, this is hf boards

you should just give up. cant wait to see Crosby vs. Weaver

 

[Darz]

you should just give up. cant wait to see Crosby vs. Weaver

ya...cause Weaver is expected to play top 2 pairing minutes. Doubt Weaver will be on the ice a lot when Crosby is on the ice.

 

[Big Lurk]

ya...cause Weaver is expected to play top 2 pairing minutes. Doubt Weaver will be on the ice a lot when Crosby is on the ice.

well given that hes better than Gorges he should be playing those minutes, right

Lets extend our savior, give him 6x6 and a hundred virgins already

 

[Mr. Hab]

I really thought it would have been Emelin...
(to be traded).

Emelin makes slightly more and can't play on the RIGHT side.
(Gorges can play well on RIGHT side, not only left side).

Always felt Gorges had better Defense 101 VS Emelin.
(with or without the puck).

Anyways...what's done is done.
Emelin, Galchenyuk, Markov (if he's still here when Nikita will be ready)...will all be good for Nikita Scherbak. In the end...Subban will be good for everyone (Russian, Canadian, American...don't matter...Subbie will bring it and show how it's done for the young ones...he will motivate the lazy ones to be hard workers,etc,etc).

 

[Burke the Legend]

I really thought it would have been Emelin...
(to be traded).

Emelin makes slightly more and can't play on the RIGHT side.
(Gorges can play well on RIGHT side, not only left side).

Always felt Gorges had better Defense 101 VS Emelin.
(with or without the puck).

Anyways...what's done is done.
Emelin, Galchenyuk, Markov (if he's still here when Nikita will be ready)...will all be good for Nikita Scherbak. In the end...Subban will be good for everyone (Russian, Canadian, American...don't matter...Subbie will bring it and show how it's done for the young ones...he will motivate the lazy ones to be hard workers,etc,etc).

I'm not a huge fan of either Gorges or Emelin, but to abuse a hfboards cliche, Emelin has more 'potential'. He still has room to become a better defender by improving his timing while defending the rush, and has better puck moving skills which can also improve with confidence & experience. Gorges clearly has plateaud. So it makes Emelin a much more compelling player to keep, and you need to roll the dice a bit, because you need guys like Alexie to make big plays in the playoffs, deep in a series when teams have zeroed in on PK & Markov and are pinning them down.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

I'm not a huge fan of either Gorges or Emelin, but to abuse a hfboards cliche, Emelin has more 'potential'. He still has room to become a better defender by improving his timing while defending the rush, and has better puck moving skills which can also improve with confidence & experience. Gorges clearly has plateaud. So it makes Emelin a much more compelling player to keep, and you need to roll the dice a bit, because you need guys like Alexie to make big plays in the playoffs, deep in a series when teams have zeroed in on PK & Markov and are pinning them down.

Just how I feel. I see more upside with Emelin. He's also more versatile than Gorges. Who's better defensively? Josh. But Gorges is a smallish guy and has really worn down over the years. He's not going to last much longer the way he plays.

Bergy made the right choice. Emelin has to show something this coming season, though. He has been underwhelming.

 

[teh doors]

Isnt Weaver lobbying to be Pacioretty's RW?

 

[Cole Caulifield]

So you would think that if that were true, that he'd be on for more shots/chances against, but he generally isn't. In fact, gorges was usually the best on our team at reducing chances against. Funny how nobody addresses this.

Perception is a funny thing.

You say it's perception, but no, it's not. Gorges is bad for the transition. He doesn't have a great first pass, it's merely adequate. He doesn't skate with the puck and can't open passing lanes that way. He doesn't have great hockey sense offensively. This is not perception. Those are facts.

Hell, when Markov and Subban were playing together what happened? They were just really dominating out there. This is a taste of what can happen if the onus isn't 100% on Subban to make the transition happen and if he was actually playing with a good player.

Gorges couldn't have faced strong opposition like he did without Subban to draw so much focus from the forecheck and without Subban doing most of the work getting pucks to the forwards.

And you seem to think Gorges was really important to the team so naturally, I figured that I should look at how the team did without Gorges for the 16 games he didn't play as opposed to the 66 games we played with Gorges.

Keep in mind that we spent 42 sec on the PK more per game without Gorges, played 10 away games out of 16 without Gorges, faced 9 playoffs teams and 7 non-playoffs teams, and Price was injured for 3 of those games.

Points/game without Gorges : 1.375 prorates to 112,75 pts season
Points/game with Gorges : 1.18 prorates to 96,9 pts season

Goals for / game without Gorges : 3,125
Goals for / game with Gorges : 2,4

Goal differential average/game without Gorges : +0,25
Goal differential average/game with Gorges : +0,06

Shots for / game average without Gorges : 32,63*
Shots for / game average with Gorges : 30,59*

*despite spending on average nearly a full minute more on PK/game and playing away with the lead more often

And all of that without even finding an actual replacement for Gorges other than Weaver, who did parts of Gorges job but obviously didn't play with Subban. Bottom line is when Gorges was out of the line up we didn't even feel it. If anything we played a lot better.

Granted it's not entirely fair because Vanek helped improve these numbers. But once Gorges got back with Vanek in the line up we got 3 pts out of 6 possible. Small sample but regardless.. if Gorges was so intrumental, I'd tend to believe that we would have felt him being gone a little bit.

 

[HabsHockey*]

I'm not a huge fan of either Gorges or Emelin, but to abuse a hfboards cliche, Emelin has more 'potential'. He still has room to become a better defender by improving his timing while defending the rush, and has better puck moving skills which can also improve with confidence & experience. Gorges clearly has plateaud. So it makes Emelin a much more compelling player to keep, and you need to roll the dice a bit, because you need guys like Alexie to make big plays in the playoffs, deep in a series when teams have zeroed in on PK & Markov and are pinning them down.

Sorry to say this but Emelin has reached his ceiling as well. He's 28 years old, his skill set is pretty much set by now.