Player Discussion Josh Archibald

[Drivesaitl]

I’d offer 1.25x2 for Sheahan and 1.4x2 for Archi.

Why would these players combined sign for less than Kassian, or why would their collective worth be deemed lower?

Holland really screwed up the Kass deal. I was saying all along that we should have rotated Archie and Sheahan into the topsix instead of pumping Kass up on a contract year. If you play a mix of all of them you don't have the kind of salary appreciation we've seen with Kass.

 

[Cloned]

Why would these players combined sign for less than Kassian, or why would their collective worth be deemed lower?

Holland really screwed up the Kass deal. I was saying all along that we should have rotated Archie and Sheahan into the topsix instead of pumping Kass up on a contract year. If you play a mix of all of them you don't have the kind of salary appreciation we've seen with Kass.

That’s just how the NHL world works, plus Kassian is still outpointing them combined.

Note that I’m not a big Kassian fan. I think Archi is a better fit for this roster.

 

[Drivesaitl]

That’s just how the NHL world works, plus Kassian is still outpointing them combined.

Note that I’m not a big Kassian fan. I think Archi is a better fit for this roster.

I don't follow the bolded at all. Also, the Oilers took a chance on Kass when he had worn out his welcomes with other clubs. Kass was chewing through his NHL career like a bad dog. He was lucky to even land here. If any player should have signed a value contract its him.

But here we are. Sheahan and Archie sport similar career numbers and Kass is only elevated in production because he's seen stints with toplines. Its the only reason he's had appreciable pts this season and last. Last season Kass had as few as 9pts after 48GP. He was so bad it was assumed for awhile he wanted out and was unhappy here.

The difference in production between Kass and Archie is explained by toi, and QOT, give Archibald the same assignments and he probably exceeds the Kass numbers. As it is he's not that far back in goals.

Archie has speed skill and neither of his goals happen last night without his jets and hands. I keep hearing the NHL is moving forward as more of a speed skill game and Archie fits that. He should be featured in topsix. He's good enough considering what we have.

 

[KenLinsemanFanClub]

Holland has to be cautious with the contracts he hands out to third and fourth liners going forward. It was his loyalty to those types of players that had him handing out over inflated contracts in Detroit. Cost him his job there and it could really hurt the cap situation with the Oilers if he falls into the same pattern. That being said, it would be really nice to get Archibald and Sheahan signed prior to the summer rather than waiting and hoping to get a couple of similar players from the free agency bargain bin.

 

[Aerchon]

Most anyone can play well with McDavid. Kassian or Archibald big benefactors this year.

Kassian is overpaid but does bring significantly more intangibles than Archibald.

Archibald and Sheahan have chemistry.

All those things imo point to those two getting signed for closer to league minimum than what Kassian received.

Hope both are signed. Would be nice to lock both up for a couple years.

 

[Nostradumbass]

I think the best way to entice them to come back is a little bit of term.

Sheahan came pretty close to not getting a contract this year. A two year deal at $1M per should look pretty tempting to him.

Exactly. 2-3 years at 1M/year, if they don't perform you can still bury them.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Exactly. 2-3 years at 1M/year, if they don't perform you can still bury them.

You probably have to give them a bit of raise.

 

[Drivesaitl]

The two players prorated to full seasons last 3 seasons played;

Kassian 14.40 G/prorated season

Archibald 13.57 G/prorated season


Kassian with a fraction of a goal more per season. Having had much more toi with better linemates this season and last. Archie has barely seen topsix this season and even at that yesterdays game was played with a substitute topsix and he knocked it out of the ballpark. Archie played a better game yesterday than Kass has all season.

Whens the last time Kass incited the opposition to take dumb penalties. Whens the last time Kass had opponents seething and losing their minds? When does Kass even draw such penalties instead of taking them?

 

[Nostradumbass]

You probably have to give them a bit of raise.

The raise comes with a guaranteed contract. Both guys signed cheap 1 year deals to try to stay in the NHL, giving them some security would likely get them to sign at the same cap hit.

 

[Cloned]

I don't follow the bolded at all. Also, the Oilers took a chance on Kass when he had worn out his welcomes with other clubs. Kass was chewing through his NHL career like a bad dog. He was lucky to even land here. If any player should have signed a value contract its him.

But here we are. Sheahan and Archie sport similar career numbers and Kass is only elevated in production because he's seen stints with toplines. Its the only reason he's had appreciable pts this season and last. Last season Kass had as few as 9pts after 48GP. He was so bad it was assumed for awhile he wanted out and was unhappy here.

The difference in production between Kass and Archie is explained by toi, and QOT, give Archibald the same assignments and he probably exceeds the Kass numbers. As it is he's not that far back in goals.

Archie has speed skill and neither of his goals happen last night without his jets and hands. I keep hearing the NHL is moving forward as more of a speed skill game and Archie fits that. He should be featured in topsix. He's good enough considering what we have.

To be fair I don’t know why we’re even bringing Kassian into the discussion here. It’s not a great contract, but it doesn’t mean Holland should follow that up by overpaying more players. And I’m one that likes both Archi and Sheahan and would be willing to give them both raises. Just not exorbitant ones.

 

[McDNicks17]

These are unit numbers of course and as you note they haven't had much to play with. They certainly are not "Brutal" 5 on 5. You've cited one unit metric that could suggest struggles, but that being on an incomplete team that has at times struggled to put lines together and have adequate D play and goaltending. Lets remember BOTH are new to this team that has a new head coach. The process, gelling, and trusting and familiarity with team mates takes time.

Archibald ranks 285th out of 301 forwards who have played at least 500 5v5 minutes this season in xGF% and 289th in GF%.

There's very few players in the league have have been out-chanced and out-scored at the rate he has.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Archibald ranks 285th out of 301 forwards who have played at least 500 5v5 minutes this season in xGF% and 289th in GF%.

There's very few players in the league have have been out-chanced and out-scored at the rate he has.

What are the fancy stats for PK and checking? Serious question not trying to be an a-hole as I don’t follow the fancies.

You have to do more than score and he does it in spades. He’s a perfect 4th line F.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Archibald is coming off a prorated 15 goal season in which he was solid in the Yotes lineup when he was in for 68GP. He signed here in July. Wheres this proof he had nowhere else to land?

Teams don't want double digit depth goal scorers with crazy speed? jebus this is the kind of pure help that teams should want in a capped league. A vet player that has been through enough hockey to know how to play and is hungry. I knew this was a good signing from the outset and said so. Not sure why Yotes did not retain but they should have.

 

[Nostradumbass]

Archibald ranks 285th out of 301 forwards who have played at least 500 5v5 minutes this season in xGF% and 289th in GF%.

There's very few players in the league have have been out-chanced and out-scored at the rate he has.

I'm curious to see what his zone start statistics are. It always seems like they are sent out in the defensive end, push the play forward, then the top lines get the gravy starts afterwards.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Archibald ranks 285th out of 301 forwards who have played at least 500 5v5 minutes this season in xGF% and 289th in GF%.

There's very few players in the league have have been out-chanced and out-scored at the rate he has.

Those are not player specific numbers. They are unit numbers. They are only unit numbers. Archibald has played this season here on the remnants of a post apocalyptic scorched earth chia roster that Holland only had one offseason to try to mend. Archie is playing with all new people and with a team with a new coach. you think there wouldn't be some initial struggles?


"Outscored at the rate he has" Considering his QOT Archies GA numbers are not that atypical.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Archibald ranks 285th out of 301 forwards who have played at least 500 5v5 minutes this season in xGF% and 289th in GF%.

There's very few players in the league have have been out-chanced and out-scored at the rate he has.

He had a very slow start to the season but has been damn solid the last 30 or so games. He works his ass off, plays physical, PK's and scores some key goals. Both he and Sheahan should be back, out of curiosity what was Tobias Rieder's xGF, etc. last season?

 

[Drivesaitl]

To be fair I don’t know why we’re even bringing Kassian into the discussion here. It’s not a great contract, but it doesn’t mean Holland should follow that up by overpaying more players. And I’m one that likes both Archi and Sheahan and would be willing to give them both raises. Just not exorbitant ones.

The reason I brought it up is as stated. I felt for a longtime that the Oilers ought to have rotated Archie and Sheahan into our limited topsix. Especially after the Neal injury. No reason not to and both have some hands and can knock in some goals when given a chance. As much as Kass can.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

I'm curious to see what his zone start statistics are. It always seems like they are sent out in the defensive end, push the play forward, then the top lines get the gravy starts afterwards.

Tippett is old school this way and I love it. Give the defensive zone starts to your defensive players and you offensive zone ones to your offensive players.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

The reason I brought it up is as stated. I felt for a longtime that the Oilers ought to have rotated Archie and Sheahan into our limited topsix. Especially after the Neal injury. No reason not to and both have some hands and can knock in some goals when given a chance. As much as Kass can.

Honestly if we surrounded Connor with Sheahan and Archibald IMO the line would do better than with Kass and another spare part. It's the same reason that Benson is fitting in now, he is going off of their chemistry and making the most of it.

 

[McDNicks17]

I'm curious to see what his zone start statistics are. It always seems like they are sent out in the defensive end, push the play forward, then the top lines get the gravy starts afterwards.

Archi has started 12.2% of his shifts on defensive zone draws, so likely not all that impactful on the stats.

 

[Cloned]

The reason I brought it up is as stated. I felt for a longtime that the Oilers ought to have rotated Archie and Sheahan into our limited topsix. Especially after the Neal injury. No reason not to and both have some hands and can knock in some goals when given a chance. As much as Kass can.

Fair point, I don’t disagree, in fact I’ve been a proponent of Archi on line 1.

 

[McDNicks17]

Those are not player specific numbers. They are unit numbers. They are only unit numbers. Archibald has played this season here on the remnants of a post apocalyptic scorched earth chia roster that Holland only had one offseason to try to mend. Archie is playing with all new people and with a team with a new coach. you think there wouldn't be some initial struggles?

"Outscored at the rate he has" Considering his QOT Archies GA numbers are not that atypical.

The two players we're talking about make up 2/3rds of that unit. It's silly to pretend they have no effect on the numbers.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

The raise comes with a guaranteed contract. Both guys signed cheap 1 year deals to try to stay in the NHL, giving them some security would likely get them to sign at the same cap hit.

Yup, I get that you think that. What I'm saying is the players might feel due a bit of raise, $200+K. They have sort of earned it.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I'm curious to see what his zone start statistics are. It always seems like they are sent out in the defensive end, push the play forward, then the top lines get the gravy starts afterwards.

Archie has 56% dzone starts.

Sheahan has 66% dzone starts.

lets just say you're not wrong and its one problem with citing limited unit stats without the perspective on how the players are used.

A vet coach is trusting these guys with a diet of dzone starts and pk and we're led to believe here that they are a tirefire defensively? Um, no, I don't think so.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

50gp. 9-7-16 -5 and 138 hits all while never taking a shift off, what else do you expect from a 4th liner?