Confirmed with Link: Jordie Benn for a 6th

[GumbyCan2]

This is what makes me cautiously optimistic when it comes to Benn. His numbers are decent with Hughes (as per an earlier post here), but terrible with Myers. I'm willing to wait and see what he brings - all it needs to be is to be better than Poolman, not a high bar.

Benn is another Demelo, basically. Very structured D zone understanding and net-clearing/tying up opponents capable with slightly bigger size and toughness. Very little by way of positive offensive value or talent. And aging out very soon to "too slow for the pace". An upgrade of 2 years of the Luca Sbisa filler era, but...basically a depth filler/current player replacement at ame level, fof the playoff run. Then, wdchave under contract next year too. Ho-hum.

 

[GumbyCan2]

say the guys arguing DeMelo is a top 4 Dman on a contending team.
what evidence do you have?

Yes, Demelo can be top-4 partnered with JMo ( 2nd pairing, and we get a "Victor Hedman-A Pietrangelo" top pairing! Easy-peezy.

 

[Evil Little]

Here's a Vaunted and Mighty Cup Team™:

	Player	Position	GP	TOI	TOI/GP	Goals/60	Total Assists/60	First Assists/60	Second Assists/60	Total Points/60
3	Kris Letang	D	71	1350.317	19.01854	0.36	0.76	0.27	0.49	1.11
10	Olli Maatta	D	67	1119.883	16.71468	0.32	0.59	0.32	0.27	0.91
2	Trevor Daley	D	53	871.0833	16.43553	0.34	0.62	0.14	0.48	0.96
8	Brian Dumoulin	D	79	1288.767	16.3135	0	0.65	0.33	0.33	0.65
4	Ben Lovejoy	D	66	1031.933	15.63535	0.23	0.23	0.06	0.17	0.47
7	David Warsofsky	D	12	179.65	14.97083	0	0	0	0	0
1	Rob Scuderi	D	25	355.5333	14.22133	0	0.51	0.17	0.34	0.51
5	Ian Cole	D	70	992.1333	14.17333	0	0.54	0.18	0.36	0.54
11	Derrick Pouliot	D	22	307.0167	13.9553	0	1.17	0.39	0.78	1.17
9	Adam Clendening	D	9	111.9667	12.44074	0	0.54	0	0.54	0.54
6	Justin Schultz	D	18	206.9333	11.4963	0	1.74	0.87	0.87	1.74

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

That's Trevor Daley and Brian Dumoulin with top-4 minutes (might have a little Ben Lovejoy rotating in there, too).

Trade for 'Jordie Benn' and carry on status quo.
Then, sign an aging, over-priced forward to "compliment Wheeler's decline" and have no space for a top-rated Dman. And "no room" for up-coming draft & develop D-guys yo actually prove if their ready and to actually attempt to help this core get over the Playoff early-exit strategies we get. That is the fore-see-able future in Jetsland "without Big Buff era". Sorry fans. Just the way it is.

I have to assume that when Stastny was acquired the plan/hope was to trade Laine for a young defenceman. This would have left a big, larger-than-Little-sized whole in the middle of the lineup. Stastny has earned every penny of his salary this year so I don't know where this take is coming from anyway, nor who you're quoting when you cite that his purpose was to "compliment (sic) Wheeler's decline"--my guess is no one in the front office thought that's what his purpose was. Instead, it was probably to "fill the 2C spot left open by Bryan Little's serious injury".

I think they'd like to upgrade the defence, but I think there are players in the organization that could make it better but the coach is far too afraid to have young players and players under 6'2" killing penalties.

 

[WolfHouse]

Benn is another Demelo, basically. Very structured D zone understanding and net-clearing/tying up opponents capable with slightly bigger size and toughness. Very little by way of positive offensive value or talent. And aging out very soon to "too slow for the pace". An upgrade of 2 years of the Luca Sbisa filler era, but...basically a depth filler/current player replacement at ame level, fof the playoff run. Then, wdchave under contract next year too. Ho-hum.

Benn's style of D is very different from DeMelo

Benn is a 'tough' D that lacks speed, allows zone entries and tries to get into lanes to block shots - he will go for the hit at the blue line aka Stuart because he has low gap awareness and this is more often a panic button plan

DeMelo's gaps are very very good even if he's not physical - he is a perfect partner for JoMo when he's playing aggressive - he's never going to score goals but he will allow his D partner to take risks and open it up

 

[Adam da bomb]

Here's a Vaunted and Mighty Cup Team™:

	Player	Position	GP	TOI	TOI/GP	Goals/60	Total Assists/60	First Assists/60	Second Assists/60	Total Points/60
3	Kris Letang	D	71	1350.317	19.01854	0.36	0.76	0.27	0.49	1.11
10	Olli Maatta	D	67	1119.883	16.71468	0.32	0.59	0.32	0.27	0.91
2	Trevor Daley	D	53	871.0833	16.43553	0.34	0.62	0.14	0.48	0.96
8	Brian Dumoulin	D	79	1288.767	16.3135	0	0.65	0.33	0.33	0.65
4	Ben Lovejoy	D	66	1031.933	15.63535	0.23	0.23	0.06	0.17	0.47
7	David Warsofsky	D	12	179.65	14.97083	0	0	0	0	0
1	Rob Scuderi	D	25	355.5333	14.22133	0	0.51	0.17	0.34	0.51
5	Ian Cole	D	70	992.1333	14.17333	0	0.54	0.18	0.36	0.54
11	Derrick Pouliot	D	22	307.0167	13.9553	0	1.17	0.39	0.78	1.17
9	Adam Clendening	D	9	111.9667	12.44074	0	0.54	0	0.54	0.54
6	Justin Schultz	D	18	206.9333	11.4963	0	1.74	0.87	0.87	1.74

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

That's Trevor Daley and Brian Dumoulin with top-4 minutes (might have a little Ben Lovejoy rotating in there, too).



I have to assume that when Stastny was acquired the plan/hope was to trade Laine for a young defenceman. This would have left a big, larger-than-Little-sized whole in the middle of the lineup. Stastny has earned every penny of his salary this year so I don't know where this take is coming from anyway, nor who you're quoting when you cite that his purpose was to "compliment (sic) Wheeler's decline"--my guess is no one in the front office thought that's what his purpose was. Instead, it was probably to "fill the 2C spot left open by Bryan Little's serious injury".

I think they'd like to upgrade the defence, but I think there are players in the organization that could make it better but the coach is far too afraid to have young players and players under 6'2" killing penalties.

What are u judging stas earning his contract on?

 

[Skidooboy]

Yes, Demelo can be top-4 partnered with JMo ( 2nd pairing, and we get a "Victor Hedman-A Pietrangelo" top pairing! Easy-peezy.

Ok so I'm wrong and so are all the pundits, and Chevy too apparently (He did say he wanted to upgrade our D corps but couldn't make the trade) because we have a perfect cup winning D corps and there's no need to fix anything.......

 

[Jack7222]

Ok so I'm wrong and so are all the pundits, and Chevy too apparently (He did say he wanted to upgrade our D corps but couldn't make the trade) because we have a perfect cup winning D corps and there's no need to fix anything.......

Are you under the impression that all anyone needs is a single top 4 caliber D and it makes you a contender?

Why can't it be the case that Demelo is top 4 quality and good player AND we need more help in our top 4?

 

[WolfHouse]

Are you under the impression that all anyone needs is a single top 4 caliber D and it makes you a contender?

Why can't it be the case that Demelo is top 4 quality and good player AND we need more help in our top 4?

The Ekholm deal to bump Forbort down the lineup would have been best case scenario.

Otherwise, we were looking at Manson who is basically of DeMelo except bigger.

 

[Skidooboy]

Are you under the impression that all anyone needs is a single top 4 caliber D and it makes you a contender? Trying to make sense of these posts.

I'm trying to make sense.

what I have been saying is that I don't like the Benn trade because we have enough 5-6-7 D-men on this team and have for 2 full years now been unable to fix the hole left when Buff walked out. leaving us a top pairing D-man short. through a myriad of shifting goal posts and arguments about how good our guys really are... and Benn is the perfect pickup(plan the Cup Parade I guess?) I'd rather Chevy did nothing and stood pat,played Heinola and Samberg in hopes they might step up....or gotten a real deal done. I think the Benn deal is a pointless waste that doesn't give us any upgrade over anyone currently on our roster.I was then told we have Demllo and he's just amazing and easily a top 4 guy on a cup challenging team.....

I think Demello is a 5-6 guy or PB guy.... i have seen nothing to disabuse me of the notion..... i gave examples of bad play, sub par stats, everyone here tells me I'm crazy and he's "just fine" and a legit top 4 on a cup winner.....then showing me the TB lineup...because we all know the Jets are as strong and deep a team as TB???.

 

[Jack7222]

I'm trying to make sense.

what I have been saying is that I don't like the Benn trade because we have enough 5-6-7 D-men on this team and have for 2 full years now been unable to fix the hole left when Buff walked out. leaving us a top pairing D-man short. through a myriad of shifting goal posts and arguments about how good our guys really are... and Benn is the perfect pickup(plan the Cup Parade I guess?) I'd rather Chevy did nothing and stood pat,played Heinola and Samberg in hopes they might step up....or gotten a real deal done. I think the Benn deal is a pointless waste that doesn't give us any upgrade over anyone currently on our roster.I was then told we have Demllo and he's just amazing and easily a top 4 guy on a cup challenging team.....

I think Demello is a 5-6 guy or PB guy.... i have seen nothing to disabuse me of the notion..... i gave examples of bad play, sub par stats, everyone here tells me I'm crazy and he's "just fine" and a legit top 4 on a cup winner.....then showing me the TB lineup...because we all know the Jets are as strong and deep a team as TB???.

I think Demelo is fantastic and you're underrating him hugely. I don't see any of the negatives you list. But I also think the Jets need top end defensive help. Hopefully Heinola makes a difference for us. I think the prices at this deadline just weren't worth paying for high end D.

 

[Skidooboy]

I think Demelo is fantastic and you're underrating him hugely. I don't see any of the negatives you list. But I also think the Jets need top end defensive help. Hopefully Heinola makes a difference for us. I think the prices at this deadline just weren't worth paying for high end D.

go watch the back to back gaols i mentioned...then go back and start watching DeMello's play and where the puck ends up after he's touched it......he doesn't turn the puck over....but he causes turnovers with garbage passes all the time. passing to a guy standing still in tripple coverage at the blue line? you call that Fantastic?

 

[Skidooboy]

I think Demelo is fantastic and you're underrating him hugely. I don't see any of the negatives you list. But I also think the Jets need top end defensive help. Hopefully Heinola makes a difference for us. I think the prices at this deadline just weren't worth paying for high end D.

also It's fine YOU think he's just awesome. and has no negatives..so you and his mom can have coffee and talk about that..... those of us who want the team to win can definitely talk about our players and critique them honestly.

as for the deadline....whatever...my point is there has been now almost 2 seasons of hockey to do something to fix the hole in our top four and we get a horribly declining 33yearold Benn for a sixth at the deadline......you can see how badly Vancouver wanted him on the team.....

 

[DRW204]

imo, it's going to be difficult to land a legit-top pair defender via trade. those guys are seldom traded perhaps 1 per year? The latest one - D. Toews - was basically a cap casualty from NYI and got traded for 2x2nds and then signed a 4mx4 year deal. Chevy should have been all over that. Guy has been an absolute stud this year for COL....oh yea, no NMC or NTC.

IMO, given the Fwd talent + Helle, this team can be a cup contender with 3 legit "2nd-pair" quality pairings. I think you could at least have two of them with Morrissey-Demelo and Stanley-Pionk, and then even out the minutes and not out-task Morrissey who is clearly not capable of carrying a pairing. Unfortunately, we have had top-pair Beaulieu and Poolman, & Morrissey playing like shit. and now Forbort's play is starting to tail off considerably. Basically, this team will need to "Pittsburgh Penguins" it's way to the Cup. I think @Evil Little sort of hinted at that by posting PIT's D from those years.

 

[Evil Little]

also It's fine YOU think he's just awesome. and has no negatives..so you and his mom can have coffee and talk about that..... those of us who want the team to win can definitely talk about our players and critique them honestly.

as for the deadline....whatever...my point is there has been now almost 2 seasons of hockey to do something to fix the hole in our top four and we get a horribly declining 33yearold Benn for a sixth at the deadline......you can see how badly Vancouver wanted him on the team.....

The reason this debate is stupid is that is all a semantic argument about where DeMelo ranks according to his True Ability (whatever that is), but the actual substance of your argument is that the Jets needed to replace Byfuglien and haven't.

And substantive answer is that players like Byfuglien are simply not available. Sure, some teams can f*** up their cap and offer the world to the UFA du jour--though in these cases their all star/Norris finalist seasons are rarely ahead of them--and very occasionally you can trade for a guy who immediately steps into a new role and flourishes, but for the most part, if you want a Byfuglien or a player of his impact you need to draft one or develop one. Hence pinning the future on Heinola and Samberg.

 

[kylbaz]

I'm trying to make sense.

what I have been saying is that I don't like the Benn trade because we have enough 5-6-7 D-men on this team and have for 2 full years now been unable to fix the hole left when Buff walked out. leaving us a top pairing D-man short. through a myriad of shifting goal posts and arguments about how good our guys really are... and Benn is the perfect pickup(plan the Cup Parade I guess?) I'd rather Chevy did nothing and stood pat,played Heinola and Samberg in hopes they might step up....or gotten a real deal done. I think the Benn deal is a pointless waste that doesn't give us any upgrade over anyone currently on our roster.I was then told we have Demllo and he's just amazing and easily a top 4 guy on a cup challenging team.....

I think Demello is a 5-6 guy or PB guy.... i have seen nothing to disabuse me of the notion..... i gave examples of bad play, sub par stats, everyone here tells me I'm crazy and he's "just fine" and a legit top 4 on a cup winner.....then showing me the TB lineup...because we all know the Jets are as strong and deep a team as TB???.

Demelo is bad, I'm not sure the evaluation issue Jets fan seem to have. There's something wrong when people constantly talk about him being great in the top four. Our D is terrible but somehow he is a good D man ... no.

 

[Skidooboy]

The reason this debate is stupid is that is all a semantic argument about where DeMelo ranks according to his True Ability (whatever that is), but the actual substance of your argument is that the Jets needed to replace Byfuglien and haven't.

And substantive answer is that players like Byfuglien are simply not available. Sure, some teams can f*** up their cap and offer the world to the UFA du jour--though in these cases their all star/Norris finalist seasons are rarely ahead of them--and very occasionally you can trade for a guy who immediately steps into a new role and flourishes, but for the most part, if you want a Byfuglien or a player of his impact you need to draft one or develop one. Hence pinning the future on Heinola and Samberg.

the reason the debate is stupid is because according to everyone including the Jets front office we need a top 4 d and have for the last two years.....the results? Forbort on a one year deal, and a rental of Benn....

2 complete years. 2 complete years of hockey business and no fix. two whole years....

other D men have moved, other teams got better...we got a declining ageing Benn...…and the "argument" proposed was was "Benn is awesome, the trade is perfect, We have Demello he's for sure a top 4 on a contender and our D is great."

I'd rather we played our young guys and let them develop....OR we got a proper legit D-man.....we did neither.

so we have a Samberg and a Heinola who have barely played a meaningful minute of icetime in what 12 months.......sitting on the taxi squad wasting away.....and a bunch of 4-5-6 guys then our elite guys Pionk and Morrisey. oh yeah Morrisey having a rough year.....so Jamie Benn is the solution to all of that?

I'd rather keep the pick

 

[Evil Little]

What are u judging stas earning his contract on?

His cap hit is tied for 18th-highest for UFA-signed centres and his point total is tied for 17th-highest among those. His salary is tied for 23th among UFA-signed centres.

 

[Skidooboy]

Demelo is bad, I'm not sure the evaluation issue Jets fan seem to have. There's something wrong when people constantly talk about him being great in the top four. Our D is terrible but somehow he is a good D man ... no.

finally a realistic appraisal of the man and our D corps

 

[Evil Little]

I'd rather keep the pick

It's bonkers to talk about Benn and a 6th in the same context as Byfuglien and the subsequent holes in the top four.

You can go back in this thread and read how I thought Benn may actually help the team despite being an underwhelming player, but continually going on about Byfuglien in this thread is a waste of energy.

finally a realistic appraisal of the man and our D corps

It begins--the first in what I'm sure are hundreds of posts from a tiny contingent of people radicalized against DeMelo for some silly reason.

Like that time guy saw Pavelec at Starbucks and decided he was going to go to the mats for him for about 18 straight months.

 

[Atoyot]

finally a realistic appraisal of the man and our D corps

The logic of "our defense as a whole is bad, therefore he must be bad" is realistic to you?

 

[Skidooboy]

It's bonkers to talk about Benn and a 6th in the same context as Byfuglien and the subsequent holes in the top four.

You can go back in this thread and read how I thought Benn may actually help the team despite being an underwhelming player, but continually going on about Byfuglien in this thread is a waste of energy.



It begins--the first in what I'm sure are hundreds of posts from a tiny contingent of people radicalized against DeMelo for some silly reason.

Like that time guy saw Pavelec at Starbucks and decided he was going to go to the mats for him for about 18 straight months.

so you don't read my comments or pay attention....you might be right this "debate is stupid"


it's not about Buff...it'as about the hole he left in our top 4.

Are you denying the Jets d corps is understaffed/ are you saying we have a proper legit d corps with 4 legit top 4 NHL cup contending type dcorps?

because Chevy disagrees with you...he was "Swinging for the fences".

Radicalized against Delmello? WTF are you even talking about.... Delmello is fine in a 5-6 role or a 6-7 role on a contender....that's what he is good for. that's not hate it's an honest assessment of his talent.

I'm glad YOU think an underwhelming 33yrold horribly declining player is "good".. I however want to win, and realise that Benn is a slapdash move just to make a move without actually adding to our capability.


so yes.. play our youth and develop a new top pairing guy, or trade for one......this "more of the same" thing we got with Benn is a waste.

THAT IS WHAT I"M SAYING\

 

[Skidooboy]

The logic of "our defense as a whole is bad, therefore he must be bad" is realistic to you?

no his play is why he's bad...again go watch the season of work he has produced. go watch the goals i mentioned WHERE HE ALMOST SINGLEHANDEDLY LOST US THE GAME AGAINST OTTAWA, look at his stats, look at what he brings offensively, watch how time after time after time his clearing attempts, passes and dump ins end up on the opponents stick and lead to chances, watch how often he makes a bad pass to a teammate who is double covered with no room to move or make a pass of thier own, watch how offensive rushes evaporate if he touches the puck.....

 

[Skidooboy]

again if i'm wrong then why was Chevy "swinging for the fences" and going for a proper top pairing D-man?? because he had so much faith in our current group?

 

[Jack7222]

again if i'm wrong then why was Chevy "swinging for the fences" and going for a proper top pairing D-man?? because he had so much faith in our current group?

Pionk is a bad player too then, right?

 

[WolfHouse]

WHOA. Oddshark says we have the 10th best defence in the league...

Prrroblem solved, kids!!