Value of: Jordan Staal

[GoldiFox]

I don't think they'd be interested in futures for Staal. Here's their projected line-up today with no moves (and clearly there will be some moves). Current ages in parenthesis:

Teravainen(23)-Aho (20) - Svechnikov (18)
McGinn(24)-Staal(29)-Williams(35)
Skinner(26)-Necas(19)-Lindholm(23)
Martinook(25)-Rask(25)-Foegele(22)

Slavin(24)-Pesce(23)
Hanifin(21)-Faulk(26)
Fleury(21)-TVR(26)

They only have only 2 over 26 years old and only 1 over 30 (Williams). They also have a number of decent guys waiting in the wings Zykov (23), Bean (19), McKeown (22), Maenalanen (23), Saarela (21), Wallmark (22), Nic Roy (21), Julien Gauthier (20), Janne Kuokkanen (19), Geekie (19), etc.. Clearly not all of those guys are NHL material, but futures aren't what Carolina currently needs more of.

This should be stickied for all “Futures/Quantity to Carolina because they need depth” trades.

Add on that Faulk and Skinner are being shopped and they are two of the oldest guys in the group. Canes actually need to consolidate some futures and young roster players into better, more experienced vets.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Add on that Faulk and Skinner are being shopped and they are two of the oldest guys in the group. Canes actually need to consolidate some futures and young roster players into better, more experienced vets.

Oh oh, now you've done it. Get ready for the Krecji, Backes, Pacioretty for Hanifin, Necas and #2OA type proposals.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

He has negative value

50 point players making over 6 million until 2023 have negative value.

don't quit your day job

 

[Stickpucker]

This has gone better than expected. If the Canes move Jordan it would be in a hockey trade.

 

[jay caufield forhead]

No thanks. Canes take on more salary, get a couple of guys that are UFA in 1 year (at a time they aren't likely to compete), help the Pens get out from under the Letang contract, and help re-stock the Pens defense. Not to mention the NTC's that Brassard and Letang have. They aren't waiving to go from a cup contending team to a team that hasn't made the playoffs in 9 years.

I think Staal is fine for his salary. I'd like to see him put up a few more points, but he does so many other things so well that at most, he's overpaid by $1M, but that's irrelevant to Carolina. Canes also don't have a center with size and moving Staal out would make a soft team, even softer and easier to play against.

Letang had a mistake filled playoffs still put up points and did things well. The pens are not trying to get out from under his contract. Letang is still better than faulk. Brassard is the only ufa in the group also. Letang and brassard dont have full no trade clauses either. That said the canes also get a very good goalie prospect two middle 6 wingers and ya Hunwik is a throw away

For the record Staal is one of my favorite players in the league and while i liked what we got for him in the trade to the canes I hated to see him go. (i did not like the use of the first round pick pouliot over forsberg dumb move). I also believe that he is worth every penny he gets paid. I understand you not wanting to move him accept for a massive overpay.

 

[Hockeyholic]

don't quit your day job

Seeing as how I work nights....there's no day job to quit....ha....

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Letang had a mistake filled playoffs still put up points and did things well. The pens are not trying to get out from under his contract. Letang is still better than faulk. Brassard is the only ufa in the group also. Letang and brassard dont have full no trade clauses either. That said the canes also get a very good goalie prospect two middle 6 wingers and ya Hunwik is a throw away

For the record Staal is one of my favorite players in the league and while i liked what we got for him in the trade to the canes I hated to see him go. (i did not like the use of the first round pick pouliot over forsberg dumb move). I also believe that he is worth every penny he gets paid. I understand you not wanting to move him accept for a massive overpay.

All those words don't make the deal any more favorable for me. Letang has missed a ton of time over the past 5 seasons and his defensive play was noticeably worse this year, not just in the playoffs. He's still a very good player, especially offensively, just that at $7.25M for 4 more years for a guy that's often injured and struggled defensively this year is too big of a risk for me and he is by far the best piece in the deal. Particularly when defense is the last thing Carolina needs right now.

The rest of the guys in the deal are just "meh" and not who the Canes need.

And even though they don't have full NTC's, it doesn't mean they'd come to Carolina. I doubt they would.

 

[sheriff bart]

Of all the problems the Canes have, JStaal isn't one of them. You'd like a forward at his pay grade to pot a few more goals, but he's solid at what he does. Moving him creates a hole that has to be filled.

Futures ain't gonna feed the bulldog

 

[Cane mutiny]

Of all the problems the Canes have, JStaal isn't one of them. You'd like a forward at his pay grade to pot a few more goals, but he's solid at what he does. Moving him creates a hole that has to be filled.

Futures ain't gonna feed the bulldog

This. I don't see them moving Staal this season, anyway. He's the workhorse of the forword lines, is a veteran and one of the few we have with playoff experience. Plus with talk of Possibly moving Faulk, Skinner and Rask, I think it would put too much stress on such a young team to lose all the stable leadership they are familiar with. Once the youngsters are settled in and take over the leadership of the team, it will make more sense.

 

[Curufinwe]

50 point players making over 6 million until 2023 have negative value.

I wonder what AAV Stastny will get on his new deal after getting traded for a 1st at the deadline.

 

[Pens x]

I feel bad for him after he wasted the last 6 years in Carolina. Hopefully he gets dealt this summer to a respectable team. His contract makes it very difficult to trade him.
He’s the 25th highest priced center in the league but he’s a third line center.

Carolina would need to retain $1.5 million.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I feel bad for him after he wasted the last 6 years in Carolina. Hopefully he gets dealt this summer to a respectable team. His contract makes it very difficult to trade him.
He’s the 25th highest priced center in the league but he’s a third line center.

Carolina would need to retain $1.5 million.

- According to NHL.com, Staal was 62nd in goals and 64th in points among centers in the NHL, but there are a dozen+ guys on the list (Marner, Nylander, Giroux, RNH, Reinhart, Guenzel, etc..) that are listed as C but are really wingers, so he's the low 50s.
- Jordan Staal takes the toughest match-ups and the most dzone faceoffs on the Canes, facing the other teams top lines night in and night out.
- Jordan Staal had the 12th best CF% in the NHL among centers (> 600 min. toi) while facing some of the toughest competition.

Not sure how a top 50s scoring center, who plays excellent defense, who faces the other teams top players, and is very good at possession is "a third line center".

 

[GoldiFox]

I'll just leave this here since they are underrated for similar reasons:

Past 3 Seasons Total 5v5 Stats:

	GP	G	A	Pts	P1	Pts/60	P1/60	CF%	GF%	Remaining Cap
Ryan O'Reilly	224	26	44	70	55	1.26	0.99	49.4%	45.6%	$7.5 Million x 5 years
Jordan Staal	236	31	54	85	58	1.56	1.07	54.7%	50.4%	$6.0 Million x 5 years

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

ROR is quite obviously the more talented and better offensive player. Just pointing out that there seems to be an ocean of value between the two in comparing HF threads when in reality they produce very similar numbers in 5v5.

 

[jay caufield forhead]

All those words don't make the deal any more favorable for me. Letang has missed a ton of time over the past 5 seasons and his defensive play was noticeably worse this year, not just in the playoffs. He's still a very good player, especially offensively, just that at $7.25M for 4 more years for a guy that's often injured and struggled defensively this year is too big of a risk for me and he is by far the best piece in the deal. Particularly when defense is the last thing Carolina needs right now.

The rest of the guys in the deal are just "meh" and not who the Canes need.

And even though they don't have full NTC's, it doesn't mean they'd come to Carolina. I doubt they would.

if the canes are not on there list than they cant refuse to go. i understand your points on letang and everyone else except Jarry who is an excellent goalie prospect. i do understand not wanting to trade staal and in fact would not trade him at all. i just want one of my favorite players on my favorite team. i am greedy

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

if the canes are not on there list than they cant refuse to go. i understand your points on letang and everyone else except Jarry who is an excellent goalie prospect. i do understand not wanting to trade staal and in fact would not trade him at all. i just want one of my favorite players on my favorite team. i am greedy

Yeah I do get that. I would be surprised if the Canes are not on their list. We have been one of the worst destinations in the NHL the past 5+ years. Bad team, low attendance, small market, cheap owner, etc. While I don't know for sure, I would guess we are one of the teams that most players put on their NTC list.

re: Jarry, I get that he might be a good goalie prospect, but he's not exactly lighting it up in the AHL at 23 years old. Goalies are voodoo and usually don't have that much trade value.

 

[kerrabria]

Staal is like the perfect center for a team at the end of the rebuild. He contract used to be pretty bad, but now that the cap has gone up he's what? Maybe 750k overpaid? Dude's one of the only true "shutdown" centermen in the league, is a beast in the dot, and is a guarantee for 15-20g 25-30a every season.

Conventional wisdom says he's a 2C on a bad/mediocre team, 3C on a cup contender. Carolina still needs their pivot of the future, but Staal gives the purely offensive wingers a guy to lean on. Plus, it looks like CAR is going to be a team whose strength lies in depth and diversity on the wings and on defense. The center thing kind of just is what it is at this point. Staal is fine for the Canes. Doesn't hurt that he's their captain either.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Staal is like the perfect center for a team at the end of the rebuild. He contract used to be pretty bad, but now that the cap has gone up he's what? Maybe 750k overpaid? Dude's one of the only true "shutdown" centermen in the league, is a beast in the dot, and is a guarantee for 15-20g 25-30a every season.

Conventional wisdom says he's a 2C on a bad/mediocre team, 3C on a cup contender. Carolina still needs their pivot of the future, but Staal gives the purely offensive wingers a guy to lean on. Plus, it looks like CAR is going to be a team whose strength lies in depth and diversity on the wings and on defense. The center thing kind of just is what it is at this point. Staal is fine for the Canes. Doesn't hurt that he's their captain either.

A lot of it depends on Aho and Necas. Necas is a natural center, but young. Aho played the last 10 games there and the WC and looked good in both stints. It may take a few years for them to hit their stride at C, but Staal is invaluable in that he can take on all the tough assignments while letting those guys come up to speed. For instance, something like:

Teravainen-Aho-Svechnikov
McGinn-Staal-Williams
Skinner-Necas-Lindholm (or insert whoever they move Skinner for).

Lindholm can also play C if one of Aho or Necas struggles. Rask is also on the team, although I think he may be moved before the season starts. Short term, they could struggle but in a year or two, they could be very solid.

 

[jay caufield forhead]

Yeah I do get that. I would be surprised if the Canes are not on their list. We have been one of the worst destinations in the NHL the past 5+ years. Bad team, low attendance, small market, cheap owner, etc. While I don't know for sure, I would guess we are one of the teams that most players put on their NTC list.

re: Jarry, I get that he might be a good goalie prospect, but he's not exactly lighting it up in the AHL at 23 years old. Goalies are voodoo and usually don't have that much trade value.

well brasard had the pens on his no trade list. Jarry was better at the nhl level. Dont you have a new owner and have a very good defense and lot of young talent that should improve the canes as a destination.

 

[CheMxDawG]

well brasard had the pens on his list. Jarry as better at the nhl level Dont you have a new owner and have a very good defense and lot of young talennt

What is this supposed to mean?

 

[kerrabria]

A lot of it depends on Aho and Necas. Necas is a natural center, but young. Aho played the last 10 games there and the WC and looked good in both stints. It may take a few years for them to hit their stride at C, but Staal is invaluable in that he can take on all the tough assignments while letting those guys come up to speed. For instance, something like:

Teravainen-Aho-Svechnikov
McGinn-Staal-Williams
Skinner-Necas-Lindholm (or insert whoever they move Skinner for).

Lindholm can also play C if one of Aho or Necas struggles. Rask is also on the team, although I think he may be moved before the season starts. Short term, they could struggle but in a year or two, they could be very solid.

When/where do you see Gauthier coming into the picture. I really like how diverse the Hurricanes young wings are. You have a little of it all (if my info on the team is correct).

Aho...playmaker and goal finisher. strong defensively. 1st line wing still with room to grow.
TT...offensive finisher, decent passer. Good sidekick for a center who is better than him
Svechnikov...dominant offensive wing who can carry and protect the puck and create plays.
Staal...shutdown center
Necas...speedy, transition offense puck carrier
Lindholm...two way winger who can finish
Gauthier...physical forechecker and net mule

 

[jay caufield forhead]

What is this supposed to mean?

they are answers and responses to is questions

 

[LakeLivin]

When/where do you see Gauthier coming into the picture. I really like how diverse the Hurricanes young wings are. You have a little of it all (if my info on the team is correct).

Aho...playmaker and goal finisher. strong defensively. 1st line wing still with room to grow.
TT...offensive finisher, decent passer. Good sidekick for a center who is better than him
Svechnikov...dominant offensive wing who can carry and protect the puck and create plays.
Staal...shutdown center
Necas...speedy, transition offense puck carrier
Lindholm...two way winger who can finish
Gauthier...physical forechecker and net mule

Imo, Gauthier is down the list as far as when I expect our forward prospects to get a shot at the NHL. Not counting Svech or Necas, I've got ahead of Goat: Foegele (I expect him on the Canes next year), Zykov (another possibility this fall), Wallmark, Kuokkanen, and maybe Sareela. Gauthier is younger than all of the above, so it's not like he's a bust, but he's going to need more seasoning at the AHL level before I see him as a threat to make the Canes.

 

[The GM]

50 point players making over 6 million until 2023 have negative value.

Good thing he doesn’t make over $6 mil per year

 

[Doogle]

Brassard, Hunwick (cap purposes), Jarry, Blueger and a 2nd for Staal and TVR?

 

[CaliforniaBlues310]

What would the ask be from STL?

Schenn-Staal-Thomas wouldn’t be bad down the middle.