Value of: Jordan Staal

[bluetuned]

Like the player, but dislike the contract. He makes a lot of sense for the Blues though. If Carolina retained 1-2M he would be worth quite a bit in a trade. The offense just isn't quite there for what he makes now.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Like the player, but dislike the contract. He makes a lot of sense for the Blues though. If Carolina retained 1-2M he would be worth quite a bit in a trade. The offense just isn't quite there for what he makes now.

But the teams that are interested in him would want him fir his defensive ability

 

[bluetuned]

But the teams that are interested in him would want him fir his defensive ability

I agree, but 6M is still a lot. It's not as much as it was a few years ago, but cap space is cap space. Staal has paced to 18G and 47P over the past 4 seasons. That puts him at low-end 2C / high-end 3C territory from an offensive standpoint. 6M is a lot for that player, even with Staal's defensive game. It's not an outlandish contract, but it will keep some teams from showing interest. IMO with some retention on his deal he becomes an absolute no-brainer for any contender. I wouldn't expect Carolina to do that, but I think it would make his value huge on the trade market.

 

[tarheelhockey]

50 point players making over 6 million until 2023 have negative value.

$6 million in 2023 is going to be like $5 million now.

Even today, $6 million isn’t what it was when Staal signed that deal. That’s not 1C money any more. If you want a solid 2C on a new deal, you’re going to end up spending that kind of money.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I agree, but 6M is still a lot. It's not as much as it was a few years ago, but cap space is cap space. Staal has paced to 18G and 47P over the past 4 seasons. That puts him at low-end 2C / high-end 3C territory from an offensive standpoint. 6M is a lot for that player, even with Staal's defensive game. It's not an outlandish contract, but it will keep some teams from showing interest. IMO with some retention on his deal he becomes an absolute no-brainer for any contender. I wouldn't expect Carolina to do that, but I think it would make his value huge on the trade market.

I'd take 18 goals and 47 points from my 3rd line center especially if you are a team with 2 high end centers in front of him.

He's a great fit on twams like Toronto Tampa, Winnipeg Edmonton even Calgary, although they have no 1st,2nd,3rd or 5th this year so they probably can't do.

Point is you can do A LOT worse than Staal as your 3rd center

 

[jay caufield forhead]

Letang, Brassard, Simon, Jarry, Sheary, hunwik for Staal @ 5 million, Faulk, one of Bean, Fleury, and van Riemsdyk

 

[Scintillating10]

So it came out recently that everybody with the exception of Aho is available in Carolina , if that's true Jordan Staal will interest A LOT of teams.


I doubt he gets moved but if everybody really is available he'd get interest.

So what's he worth?

6 million for 5 more years? At 45 points he doesn't have much trade value

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Letang, Brassard, Simon, Jarry, Sheary, hunwik for Staal @ 5 million, Faulk, one of Bean, Fleury, and van Riemsdyk

No thanks. Canes take on more salary, get a couple of guys that are UFA in 1 year (at a time they aren't likely to compete), help the Pens get out from under the Letang contract, and help re-stock the Pens defense. Not to mention the NTC's that Brassard and Letang have. They aren't waiving to go from a cup contending team to a team that hasn't made the playoffs in 9 years.

I think Staal is fine for his salary. I'd like to see him put up a few more points, but he does so many other things so well that at most, he's overpaid by $1M, but that's irrelevant to Carolina. Canes also don't have a center with size and moving Staal out would make a soft team, even softer and easier to play against.

 

[WTFMAN99]

No thanks. Canes take on more salary, get a couple of guys that are UFA in 1 year (at a time they aren't likely to compete), help the Pens get out from under the Letang contract, and help re-stock the Pens defense. Not to mention the NTC's that Brassard and Letang have. They aren't waiving to go from a cup contending team to a team that hasn't made the playoffs in 9 years.

I think Staal is fine for his salary. I'd like to see him put up a few more points, but he does so many other things so well that at most, he's overpaid by $1M, but that's irrelevant to Carolina. Canes also don't have a center with size and moving Staal out would make a soft team, even softer and easier to play against.

How does this work for you guys?

Nylander (RFA - let's say Ehler's contract, 6M for 7 yrs)
Zaitsev (4.25m for 6 years)
Carrick (RFA - probably 900k)
2nd
Sparks (if you guys want him - he won AHL goalie of the year, has 1 yr left at 675k, requires waivers)

for

Staal (6m)
Pesce (4.025M)

I would have offered to take Kruger but you already moved him, you're likely to be moving Skinner anyway so money opens up there.

 

[GoldiFox]

This thread consists of 90% people ignorantly arguing that Jordan Staal is worthless and 10% terrible offers (Letang).

Looks like it can be closed?

 

[GoldiFox]

How does this work for you guys?

Nylander (RFA - let's say Ehler's contract, 6M for 7 yrs)
Zaitsev (4.25m for 6 years)
Carrick (RFA - probably 900k)
2nd
Sparks (if you guys want him - he won AHL goalie of the year, has 1 yr left at 675k, requires waivers)

for

Staal (6m)
Pesce (4.025M)

I would have offered to take Kruger but you already moved him, you're likely to be moving Skinner anyway so money opens up there.

Pesce for Nylander is about right. Although personally I prefer to keep Slavin-Pesce as the Canes top pair for the next 6+ years.

I’m not even a little bit interested in trading Jordan for Zaitsev+.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Pesce for Nylander is about right. Although personally I prefer to keep Slavin-Pesce as the Canes top pair for the next 6+ years.

I’m not even a little bit interested in trading Jordan for Zaitsev+.

Nylander for Pesce is something I wouldn't entertain straight up which is why I tried to balance it out a bit more.

 

[GoldiFox]

Nylander for Pesce is something I wouldn't entertain straight up which is why I tried to balance it out a bit more.

Most people would probably agree with you. Unfortunately Pesce is the only NHL D the Canes have signed for more than 2 years. He’s a critical piece of the Canes top-pair.

If the Canes traded Pesce for Nylander their immediate #1 need would become a top-pair RHD. Kind of silly when you just traded away that guy who was also 22 and signed for 6 more years. Canes would be adding a good offensive piece but that has become less of a need with Svechnikov/Necas arriving.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Most people would probably agree with you. Unfortunately Pesce is the only NHL D the Canes have signed for more than 2 years. He’s a critical piece of the Canes top-pair.

If the Canes traded Pesce for Nylander their immediate #1 need would become a top-pair RHD. Kind of silly when you just traded away that guy who was also 22 and signed for 6 more years. Canes would be adding a good offensive piece but that has become less of a need with Svechnikov/Necas arriving.

That's fair, Pesce-Nylander swap just has shades of Larsson-Hall for me. I don't know what Pesce is to be honest because he plays with Slavin. My gut says he's closer to a "top 4" guy then a true top pairing guy. Canes *could* re-sign Faulk or go mini rebuild route and try to rebound relatively quickly, the pieces are certainly there. Sparks could also provide some good goaltending for all we know, and a 2nd is more currency in case you guys ever want to jump on someone.

Slavin-Faulk
Hanifin-Zaitsev
Bean-TVR
Carrick

Not bad defense at all, pretty good mix of defense and offense.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

I could see la being interested However not sure what they could give up for him It would have to be some salary going out as well So some sorta hockey trade ? Muzzin ?

 

[Tripod]

$6 million in 2023 is going to be like $5 million now.

Even today, $6 million isn’t what it was when Staal signed that deal. That’s not 1C money any more. If you want a solid 2C on a new deal, you’re going to end up spending that kind of money.

That's why building thru the draft is so important....so you can let other pay for those high contracts while you replace them with cheaper talent.

But yeah, Staal is only like 1 million overpaid if you only look at points. But his defensive side makes up for it.

 

[LeafGrief]

Are the Canes hoping to compete this coming year? Would a Staal trade be for futures, or a hockey trade for a different player who can help them win?

He has plenty of value in my eyes and I'd be happy to have him as a Leaf. The issue being that I don't know if we have the pieces Carolina would be interested in for either a futures or hockey trade. I'd imagine a hockey deal would be looking for a Skinner type replacement (assuming he gets moved in a separate deal) where a futures deal is a 1st plus a pretty good prospect. We don't have a Skinner lying around and we don't have any forward prospects who would really get the Canes to sit up and listen.

 

[Joe McGrath]

Are the Canes hoping to compete this coming year? Would a Staal trade be for futures, or a hockey trade for a different player who can help them win?

He has plenty of value in my eyes and I'd be happy to have him as a Leaf. The issue being that I don't know if we have the pieces Carolina would be interested in for either a futures or hockey trade. I'd imagine a hockey deal would be looking for a Skinner type replacement (assuming he gets moved in a separate deal) where a futures deal is a 1st plus a pretty good prospect. We don't have a Skinner lying around and we don't have any forward prospects who would really get the Canes to sit up and listen.

No one really knows. I find it hard to believe they wouldn’t be trying to compete for a playoff spot, but if they don’t bring in someone new to play goal in the summer you can have a pretty solid indication they don’t plan on being competitive.

 

[Brock Radunske]

How does this work for you guys?

Nylander (RFA - let's say Ehler's contract, 6M for 7 yrs)
Zaitsev (4.25m for 6 years)
Carrick (RFA - probably 900k)
2nd
Sparks (if you guys want him - he won AHL goalie of the year, has 1 yr left at 675k, requires waivers)

for

Staal (6m)
Pesce (4.025M)

I would have offered to take Kruger but you already moved him, you're likely to be moving Skinner anyway so money opens up there.

That's a pretty horrible deal for the Leafs.
Thanks but no thanks.

 

[RodTheBawd]

This thread did nothing but highlight how underrated Jordan is.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I don't know what Pesce is to be honest because he plays with Slavin. My gut says he's closer to a "top 4" guy then a true top pairing guy.

That would be correct. He’s not a “top pairing guy” in the sense that he should ever be one of your 2 best defensemen. He’s more like your 4th best guy, but so reliable defensively that he can munch minutes next to a #1D who needs to be able to take risks.

 

[GoldiFox]

That's fair, Pesce-Nylander swap just has shades of Larsson-Hall for me. I don't know what Pesce is to be honest because he plays with Slavin. My gut says he's closer to a "top 4" guy then a true top pairing guy. Canes *could* re-sign Faulk or go mini rebuild route and try to rebound relatively quickly, the pieces are certainly there. Sparks could also provide some good goaltending for all we know, and a 2nd is more currency in case you guys ever want to jump on someone.

Slavin-Faulk
Hanifin-Zaitsev
Bean-TVR
Carrick

Not bad defense at all, pretty good mix of defense and offense.

You are talking to the wrong guy. I agree that one can assume Pesce is more a "top-4 guy" on any other team, but on the Canes Slavin-Pesce has proven to be one of the better shutdown pairs in the entire league over the past 3 years. I don't see the incentive to break that up just because of "vacuum value". Same goes for Teravainen with Aho. I don't think Teravainen is a 1st line forward, but he sure plays like one with Aho. So why would the Canes trade Pesce/Teravainen for less than the roles that they functionally act as on the Canes?

Slavin-Faulk - I've seen it enough to know that I don't like it. One might think that Slavin could act as a perfect "Hainsey" role to Faulk, but in reality Slavin is the better D in transitioning the puck which means his partner should play a more defensive role. Pesce is great at this, Faulk is not.
Hanifin-Zaitsev - This sounds like an abject disaster defensively. They might be abused as a 3rd pair, much less a 2nd pair.
Bean-TVR - Fine 3rd pairing with upside but they will suffer from the same lack of experience that the Canes D as a whole suffered from last year.

Also missing Haydn Fleury

 

[Moosetache]

LMAO.

Staal has fantastic value. 50 point Centre(playing with bad wingers mind you)

Fantastic defensively, PKer...awesome in the playoffs.

Like you couldn't be more wrong. Staal is one of the best possession centre's in the league.

I think Staal has tremendous value, especially to the Canes. But this statement above couldn't be further from the truth. Have you not been privy to ANY of the info coming out of the World Championships??

 

[LakeLivin]

Are the Canes hoping to compete this coming year? Would a Staal trade be for futures, or a hockey trade for a different player who can help them win?

He has plenty of value in my eyes and I'd be happy to have him as a Leaf. The issue being that I don't know if we have the pieces Carolina would be interested in for either a futures or hockey trade. I'd imagine a hockey deal would be looking for a Skinner type replacement (assuming he gets moved in a separate deal) where a futures deal is a 1st plus a pretty good prospect. We don't have a Skinner lying around and we don't have any forward prospects who would really get the Canes to sit up and listen.

Imo, Canes are not only hoping to compete next season, they need to make the playoffs and will strive to do so, but without sacrificing the long term consistent competitiveness of the franchise. Keep in mind that the jump from last year to a playoff berth is an average NHL goalie, so it's not like they need a major overhaul. Many are assuming that Dundon's statement implies a firesale, but those of us closest to the Canes see it as more of him articulating a philosophy that's really not different from most NHL teams: “It's our job to find better players than you, and it's your job to make it hard.” Canes management did say they want to change the culture, but that can be accomplished with appointing Brindy head coach and swapping out just a couple of players.

On Jordan Staal: a couple years back I saw a Pens fan post this on their board (I'm paraphrasing): I don't care if he only has 25 points a season, if he plays against the other teams top line all year and holds them to less points than that, I'm happy with him. (Makes a lot of sense, imo)

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Are the Canes hoping to compete this coming year? Would a Staal trade be for futures, or a hockey trade for a different player who can help them win?

I don't think they'd be interested in futures for Staal. Here's their projected line-up today with no moves (and clearly there will be some moves). Current ages in parenthesis:

Teravainen(23)-Aho (20) - Svechnikov (18)
McGinn(24)-Staal(29)-Williams(35)
Skinner(26)-Necas(19)-Lindholm(23)
Martinook(25)-Rask(25)-Foegele(22)

Slavin(24)-Pesce(23)
Hanifin(21)-Faulk(26)
Fleury(21)-TVR(26)

They only have only 2 over 26 years old and only 1 over 30 (Williams). They also have a number of decent guys waiting in the wings Zykov (23), Bean (19), McKeown (22), Maenalanen (23), Saarela (21), Wallmark (22), Nic Roy (21), Julien Gauthier (20), Janne Kuokkanen (19), Geekie (19), etc.. Clearly not all of those guys are NHL material, but futures aren't what Carolina currently needs more of.