Jordan Schroeder

[ProstheticConscience]

Edit: I don't know why I underlined Patrick Kane.

This scouting report bears absolutely no resemblance to the Schroeder I've seen at any time here.

Wow.

 

[F A N]

He's been gift wrapped golden opportunities, due to his draft status and the Canucks' dearth of top prospects and young players, and each time he has failed to impress. In fact he hasn't impressed since his pre-draft season. He's not any better with Kassian, Zack does all the work in my opinion
...
He's been given more of a chance than the vast majority of prospects get.

How has he been gift wrapped golden opportunities? He didn't get a sniff of NHL action until his 3rd pro season. Have you seen him play with the Sedins or Kesler much over the past couple of years? Schroeder hasn't been gift wrapped anything. He gets to play 2nd line center when there have been injuries and the team needs more skill up front. Other than that, he's been a bottom 6 forward with very little PP time.

As for being better with Zack, Schroeder, unsurprisingly, looks a lot better playing beside skilled forwards who can work the give and go with him.

To me the clock is ticking for Schroeder due to the presence of the four skilled and bigger young centres who are about to turn pro in the organization.

Gaunce and Fox, and maybe Horvat, next season. Cassels and Horvat for sure the season after that. All of these guys are much bigger and more physical than Schroeder, yet have extremely worthy skill sets. All of them could play on the wing if need be, and all play both ends of the rink at least reasonably well already. All of them know how to score goals with their excellent shots.

You are comparing prospects with a player who has experienced limited success in the NHL. Look at Schroeder's scouting report when he was in college and besides size and physicality, none of those guys you mentioned are considered more dynamic offensive players than Schroeder.

This scouting report bears absolutely no resemblance to the Schroeder I've seen at any time here.

That report is a bit rosy but it is based on how good Schroeder was in college. I think it's still too early to write off Schroeder. I personally think Schroeder does have what it takes to be an NHL player but he has to find a way to produce offensively.

 

[Reign Nateo]

How has he been gift wrapped golden opportunities? He didn't get a sniff of NHL action until his 3rd pro season. Have you seen him play with the Sedins or Kesler much over the past couple of years? Schroeder hasn't been gift wrapped anything. He gets to play 2nd line center when there have been injuries and the team needs more skill up front. Other than that, he's been a bottom 6 forward with very little PP time.

I don't know what your definition of 'very little PP time' is, but it's different for me. He averages over a minute a game in PP time this year and almost 2 1/2 minutes a game last year. And he hasn't produced jack ****. Most young players aren't given that leeway. We're talking about a guy that is 5-8, scored at a .60 PPG clip in nearly 200 AHL games, and has a measly 15 points and a -6 rating in 54 NHL GP. And you wonder why he hasn't been given more time with the Sedins and Kesler?? Our top centres have both missed substantial time with injuries over the last couple years, there was every opportunity for Schroeder to step up and produce in that role. He didn't. Most young players don't have the sea part for them like that either, and it's even more rare for them to keep getting chances. He's lucky to have a spot in the NHL at this point, never mind being given 13-14 minutes a game and a minute on the PP every night.

Take for example our last 5-8 centre prospect, Brandon Reid. Unfortunately for Brandon, he was a 5th round pick and never had a chance in the NHL at that time. He scored at a .70 PPG pace at the AHL level and unlike Schroder, showed definite improvement year to year. His reward? 13 NHL games. And he scored 6 points and had a +4 rating! Yet he was given up on far earlier than Schroeder has been. Reid was never given even half the chance Schroeder has been already gifted.

I say 'gifted' because he's never earned it in my opinion and has benefited from a lack of young players and depth on the Canucks. He's been mediocre since being drafted and yet here he is, getting 13-15 minutes a night plus PP time at the NHL level... In an organization with more young depth Jordan would have been leapfrogged and left in the dust based on what he's done since drafted. Very few players are given that sort of cushion. You don't usually get this long to try to make something of yourself at the NHL level without producing or impacting the game in some other way.

I beleive the Canucks are simply giving him every opportunity to improve before they make their decision about whether or not to offer him another contract. But make no mistake, he's been handed a much better opportunity than most players ever get.

 

[y2kcanucks]

This scouting report bears absolutely no resemblance to the Schroeder I've seen at any time here.

Wow.

We haven't done a good job of developing him.

 

[BobbyJazzLegs]

I don't know what your definition of 'very little PP time' is, but it's different for me. He averages over a minute a game in PP time this year and almost 2 1/2 minutes a game last year. And he hasn't produced jack ****. Most young players aren't given that leeway. We're talking about a guy that is 5-8, scored at a .60 PPG clip in nearly 200 AHL games, and has a measly 15 points and a -6 rating in 54 NHL GP. And you wonder why he hasn't been given more time with the Sedins and Kesler?? Our top centres have both missed substantial time with injuries over the last couple years, there was every opportunity for Schroeder to step up and produce in that role. He didn't. Most young players don't have the sea part for them like that either, and it's even more rare for them to keep getting chances. He's lucky to have a spot in the NHL at this point, never mind being given 13-14 minutes a game and a minute on the PP every night.

Take for example our last 5-8 centre prospect, Brandon Reid. Unfortunately for Brandon, he was a 5th round pick and never had a chance in the NHL at that time. He scored at a .70 PPG pace at the AHL level and unlike Schroder, showed definite improvement year to year. His reward? 13 NHL games. And he scored 6 points and had a +4 rating! Yet he was given up on far earlier than Schroeder has been. Reid was never given even half the chance Schroeder has been already gifted.

I say 'gifted' because he's never earned it in my opinion and has benefited from a lack of young players and depth on the Canucks. He's been mediocre since being drafted and yet here he is, getting 13-15 minutes a night plus PP time at the NHL level... In an organization with more young depth Jordan would have been leapfrogged and left in the dust based on what he's done since drafted. Very few players are given that sort of cushion. You don't usually get this long to try to make something of yourself at the NHL level without producing or impacting the game in some other way.

I beleive the Canucks are simply giving him every opportunity to improve before they make their decision about whether or not to offer him another contract. But make no mistake, he's been handed a much better opportunity than most players ever get.

You can throw averages at us, but how about consistency? When has he had back to back games where he's been on the PP, let alone back to back games on the same line.

 

[TruKnyte]

I would like to see Schoeder get some extended playing time with Kassian. Might as well see what he can do with the remaining games in the season.

 

[dave babych returns]

How has he been gift wrapped golden opportunities? He didn't get a sniff of NHL action until his 3rd pro season. Have you seen him play with the Sedins or Kesler much over the past couple of years? Schroeder hasn't been gift wrapped anything. He gets to play 2nd line center when there have been injuries and the team needs more skill up front. Other than that, he's been a bottom 6 forward with very little PP time.

Does he every line up on the wing? Pretty tough to get minutes with our top two centres if you can't do that..

 

[Wetcoaster]

Does he every line up on the wing? Pretty tough to get minutes with our top two centres if you can't do that..

He has played some wing but board battles are not his thing.

Schroeder looks to be:

 

[LeftCoast]

I don't know what your definition of 'very little PP time' is, but it's different for me. He averages over a minute a game in PP time this year and almost 2 1/2 minutes a game last year. And he hasn't produced jack ****. Most young players aren't given that leeway. We're talking about a guy that is 5-8, scored at a .60 PPG clip in nearly 200 AHL games, and has a measly 15 points and a -6 rating in 54 NHL GP. And you wonder why he hasn't been given more time with the Sedins and Kesler?? Our top centres have both missed substantial time with injuries over the last couple years, there was every opportunity for Schroeder to step up and produce in that role. He didn't. Most young players don't have the sea part for them like that either, and it's even more rare for them to keep getting chances. He's lucky to have a spot in the NHL at this point, never mind being given 13-14 minutes a game and a minute on the PP every night.

Take for example our last 5-8 centre prospect, Brandon Reid. Unfortunately for Brandon, he was a 5th round pick and never had a chance in the NHL at that time. He scored at a .70 PPG pace at the AHL level and unlike Schroder, showed definite improvement year to year. His reward? 13 NHL games. And he scored 6 points and had a +4 rating! Yet he was given up on far earlier than Schroeder has been. Reid was never given even half the chance Schroeder has been already gifted.

I say 'gifted' because he's never earned it in my opinion and has benefited from a lack of young players and depth on the Canucks. He's been mediocre since being drafted and yet here he is, getting 13-15 minutes a night plus PP time at the NHL level... In an organization with more young depth Jordan would have been leapfrogged and left in the dust based on what he's done since drafted. Very few players are given that sort of cushion. You don't usually get this long to try to make something of yourself at the NHL level without producing or impacting the game in some other way.

I believe the Canucks are simply giving him every opportunity to improve before they make their decision about whether or not to offer him another contract. But make no mistake, he's been handed a much better opportunity than most players ever get.

Schroeder has not really been given a chance, and I blame Tortorella. Torts pays a very old school, up and down the wings, grinding system that JS is not well suited for. As a result, he doesn't trust him with ice time or in situation where he would face opponents top lines. Most nights he plays 6 - 10 minutes with Dalpe and Sestito. He played with Kassian when both players were getting very little ice time, but when injuries allowed Kassian to move up the line up, Schroeder was pushed to the 4th line.

Other prospects - Jensen, Matthias, Kassian are at minimum getting 3rd line minutes (15 - 17 min / game) and are playing with far more offensively skilled line mates.

Schroeder's production / 60 minutes of ice time (0.65 G/60, 1.26 P/60) is similar to Shawn Matthias (0.59 G/60, 1.48 P/60 - since coming to the Canucks). In Florida, Matthias' was averaging 12 minutes of ice time and had 16 points in 59 games. In Vancouver he is averaging 16.6 min/game and has 5 points in 12 games.

I don't believe Schroeder has been put in a situation where he can succeed, but I don't think he has much of a shot to make the team next year - even with (hopefully) a new coach. Santorelli is almost certain to be re-signed and with Schroeder's eligibility to be exposed to waivers, the acquisition of Matthias and (hopeful) pressure from below from Horvat and Gaunce, he has an almost impossible hill to climb.

 

[F A N]

I don't know what your definition of 'very little PP time' is, but it's different for me. He averages over a minute a game in PP time this year and almost 2 1/2 minutes a game last year. And he hasn't produced jack ****.

Schroeder is 10th on the team in PP time this season. And on this team with one of the worst PP in the league he is tied for 6th on the team with 1 point. Ya last season he got more PP time but it's not like other players produced a lot better.

Most young players aren't given that leeway.

....

Take for example our last 5-8 centre prospect, Brandon Reid.

....

I say 'gifted' because he's never earned it in my opinion.

You keep saying young players but fair or not Schroeder is a first round pick and that's where the comparisons should start. First round picks, especially offensive players, are simply given or "gifted" more opportunities than most. Schroeder has not been given that benefit and neither was Hodgson. The Sedins were gifted opportunities back then. Not sure if you were a Canucks fan back when fans were complaining about how the Sedins went out there on the second PP without fail regardless of how they produced.

Does he every line up on the wing? Pretty tough to get minutes with our top two centres if you can't do that..

Schroeder hasn't been used on the wing very much and he hasn't shown effectiveness as a winger at any level. With that said, it's not like our other forwards have been used in their natural positions.

 

[Reign Nateo]

Schroeder has not really been given a chance, and I blame Tortorella. Torts pays a very old school, up and down the wings, grinding system that JS is not well suited for. As a result, he doesn't trust him with ice time or in situation where he would face opponents top lines. Most nights he plays 6 - 10 minutes with Dalpe and Sestito. He played with Kassian when both players were getting very little ice time, but when injuries allowed Kassian to move up the line up, Schroeder was pushed to the 4th line.

Other prospects - Jensen, Matthias, Kassian are at minimum getting 3rd line minutes (15 - 17 min / game) and are playing with far more offensively skilled line mates.

Schroeder's production / 60 minutes of ice time (0.65 G/60, 1.26 P/60) is similar to Shawn Matthias (0.59 G/60, 1.48 P/60 - since coming to the Canucks). In Florida, Matthias' was averaging 12 minutes of ice time and had 16 points in 59 games. In Vancouver he is averaging 16.6 min/game and has 5 points in 12 games.

I don't believe Schroeder has been put in a situation where he can succeed, but I don't think he has much of a shot to make the team next year - even with (hopefully) a new coach. Santorelli is almost certain to be re-signed and with Schroeder's eligibility to be exposed to waivers, the acquisition of Matthias and (hopeful) pressure from below from Horvat and Gaunce, he has an almost impossible hill to climb.

He was the same player (with more PP time) under Vigneault. Not sure how you can blame Tortarella...

Matthias, Jensen and Kassian all have great size and impact the game in other ways. What you're seeing is not our other prospects getting more of an opportunity, but rather passing a stagnant prospect on the depth chart.

Again, Schroeder has been given more than enough opportunity to show that he's an NHL player. He hasn't and likely won't prove to be one before the end of the season. The "almost impossible hill to climb" is no one's fault but his own. Ship is sailing and he's standing on the dock still. He came up short (excuse the pun) after being handed more than a fair opportunity, there's no more excuses, he hasn't impressed since he was drafted (almost 5 years ago). Not every player works out. He was a good pick at the 23rd spot at the time, but never progressed. Hard to predict the future at 17/18 years old, sometimes things don't work out.

 

[Reign Nateo]

You keep saying young players but fair or not Schroeder is a first round pick and that's where the comparisons should start. First round picks, especially offensive players, are simply given or "gifted" more opportunities than most. Schroeder has not been given that benefit and neither was Hodgson. The Sedins were gifted opportunities back then. Not sure if you were a Canucks fan back when fans were complaining about how the Sedins went out there on the second PP without fail regardless of how they produced.

The bolded is pure delusion.

I've been a Canucks fan since around 1980, yes I remember how people viewed the Sedins. But they were 19/20, Schroeder will be 24 by the time the next season starts. The Sedins were producing pretty solid numbers by that point. If Schroeder was doing what he's done at 19/20, I'd have no problem. At the age Schroeder was meddling in college putting up mediocre numbers (19/20), the Sedins were learning the NHL game in a 2nd/3rd line role. They were getting second line PP time at Schroeder's current age because they were showing promise and producing (Daniel had 15 PP goals in his age 23 year). Schroeder doesn't compare to their production or talent, that's why he isn't force-fed PP time like the Sedins were. He's been given the opportunity he's deserved and then some, and floundered.

If you look at the last couple years objectively, Schroeder has been given more than enough opportunity and has not excelled. We don't need 5-8 players in the bottom 6, and if he can't score at a top 6 pace, he has no place in this league. So far it looks like the latter unfortunately.

 

[racerjoe]

The bolded is pure delusion.

I've been a Canucks fan since around 1980, yes I remember how people viewed the Sedins. But they were 19/20, Schroeder will be 24 by the time the next season starts. The Sedins were producing pretty solid numbers by that point. If Schroeder was doing what he's done at 19/20, I'd have no problem. At the age Schroeder was meddling in college putting up mediocre numbers, the Sedins were learning the NHL game in a 2nd/3rd line role. They were getting second line PP time at Schroeder's age because they were showing promise and producing (Daniel had 15 PP goals in his age 23 year). Schroeder doesn't compare to their production or talent, that's why he isn't force-fed PP time like the Sedins were. He's been given the opportunity he's deserved and then some, and floundered.

If you look at the last couple years objectively, Schroeder has been given more than enough opportunity and has not excelled. We don't need 5-8 players in the bottom 6, and if he can't score at a top 6 pace, he has no place in this league. So far it looks like the latter unfortunately.

Now age wise compare him to Martin St Louis. They look very much a like. Again as a disclaimer I do not mean to compare them as players just look at the development curve.

The twins were top 3 picks. JS was 22nd. Go compare that in most drafts. You are damn right the 22nd guy will most likely take longer to develop.

For me it is pretty simple. Kid has amazing vision, and has ONLY PLAYED 53 GAMES. Too early to give up on him. He still could bust, but why are we giving up on someone with so little games?

 

[Barney Gumble]

Hbut never progressed.

Sorry but I'll have to disagree with that. He put up comparable numbers as Hodgson did in the AHL for a couple seasons (that's with suspect linemates - not that we had a ton of offensive talent on the farm nor primo power play time). He just hasn't been able to take the "next step".

 

[Reign Nateo]

Sorry but I'll have to disagree with that. He put up comparable numbers as Hodgson did in the AHL for a couple seasons (that's with suspect linemates - not that we had a ton of offensive talent on the farm nor primo power play time). He just hasn't been able to take the "next step".

"Hasn't taken the next step"/"Hasn't progressed" is the definition of splitting hairs in my opinion.

 

[Reign Nateo]

Now age wise compare him to Martin St Louis. They look very much a like. Again as a disclaimer I do not mean to compare them as players just look at the development curve.

The twins were top 3 picks. JS was 22nd. Go compare that in most drafts. You are damn right the 22nd guy will most likely take longer to develop.

For me it is pretty simple. Kid has amazing vision, and has ONLY PLAYED 53 GAMES. Too early to give up on him. He still could bust, but why are we giving up on someone with so little games?

Martin St-Louis was a terror in the AHL and got about 8 minutes a game in Calgary on the 4th line, they already had Theo Fleury scoring 30 goals a year and didn't want two tiny wingers with the way the NHL was leaning towards big players at the time. And let's not forget the guy evaluating him: Craig Button. It was a very unique situation. I get you're not comparing them, that's because you shouldn't be.

It's been 5 years and his contract is up without a lot to rest his hat on. Just 53 NHL games or not you don't have an infinite amount of time to hang on to a player hoping he puts it together at 25 years old. You have to make room for young players and stay comfortable under the contract limit. The Canucks have a big decision to make with Schroeder, we'll see what they do.

 

[LeftCoast]

He was the same player (with more PP time) under Vigneault. Not sure how you can blame Tortarella...

Matthias, Jensen and Kassian all have great size and impact the game in other ways. What you're seeing is not our other prospects getting more of an opportunity, but rather passing a stagnant prospect on the depth chart.

Again, Schroeder has been given more than enough opportunity to show that he's an NHL player. He hasn't and likely won't prove to be one before the end of the season. The "almost impossible hill to climb" is no one's fault but his own. Ship is sailing and he's standing on the dock still. He came up short (excuse the pun) after being handed more than a fair opportunity, there's no more excuses, he hasn't impressed since he was drafted (almost 5 years ago). Not every player works out. He was a good pick at the 23rd spot at the time, but never progressed. Hard to predict the future at 17/18 years old, sometimes things don't work out.

You mean Schroeder's 31 games under AV and 23 more under Tortorella?

Shawn Matthias has over 320 NHL games under his belt, Kassian has over 150. You would expect them to be a bit further along the development curve.

 

[dave babych returns]

Schroeder hasn't been used on the wing very much and he hasn't shown effectiveness as a winger at any level. With that said, it's not like our other forwards have been used in their natural positions.

Except for Henrik and (for a very brief period this season when he was the second-best center on his line) Kesler of course.

 

[Barney Gumble]

"Hasn't taken the next step"/"Hasn't progressed" is the definition of splitting hairs in my opinion.

"but never developed" is a term I would use to describe Patrick White. From my POV, it ain't splitting hairs.

 

[TheWanderer]

Now age wise compare him to Martin St Louis. They look very much a like. Again as a disclaimer I do not mean to compare them as players just look at the development curve.

The twins were top 3 picks. JS was 22nd. Go compare that in most drafts. You are damn right the 22nd guy will most likely take longer to develop.

For me it is pretty simple. Kid has amazing vision, and has ONLY PLAYED 53 GAMES. Too early to give up on him. He still could bust, but why are we giving up on someone with so little games?

Cuz he's 24.

Dammit I'm 24. I haven't played any games in the NHL! Can't say I'm a bust. Give me the Sedins to play with and see what I can do!

He'll get his QO or whatever, a 1 year deal, and will sink or swim (YET AGAIN! no chances my foot) at training camp, where he will (IMO, undoubtedly) loose his spot to Santorelli/Jensen/Dalpe/Horvat/any of our AHL prospects/Richardson/Matthias

It's ridiculous to think that this player is going to improve even quickly enough to keep himself on this team above the players we have moving up. If he's not gone next year, he will be when Horvat, Gaunce, Cassels, and Fox REALLY start making the push.

The only way Schroeder sticks is if Kesler is traded, we go full Pejorative Slur, and he is force-fed second line minutes until this team gets back on its feet. Even then, I bet Horvat beats Schroeder out for that opportunity.

 

[Zarpan]

Martin St-Louis was a terror in the AHL and got about 8 minutes a game in Calgary on the 4th line, they already had Theo Fleury scoring 30 goals a year and didn't want two tiny wingers with the way the NHL was leaning towards big players at the time. And let's not forget the guy evaluating him: Craig Button. It was a very unique situation. I get you're not comparing them, that's because you shouldn't be.

The chance of Schroeder approaching St. Louis's NHL performance is minimal. However, just looking at minor league performance, while St. Louis was better than Schroeder in the AHL/IHL at the same age, the difference wasn't that great.

St. Louis had 76 points in 81 games in 1997-1998.

Schroeder had 33 points in 42 games (equivalent of 64 points in 81 games) last year, which is age-equivalent to St. Louis's 1997-1998 season.

 

[Reign Nateo]

The chance of Schroeder approaching St. Louis's NHL performance is minimal. However, just looking at minor league performance, while St. Louis was better than Schroeder in the AHL/IHL at the same age, the difference wasn't that great.

St. Louis had 76 points in 81 games in 1997-1998.

Schroeder had 33 points in 42 games (equivalent of 64 points in 81 games) last year, which is age-equivalent to St. Louis's 1997-1998 season.

He out-produced him by "just" a 12-14 point pace then? OK. I don't think that changes much. I hope you guys aren't holding your breath waiting for Jordan Schroeder to turn into the next Martin St. Louis...

 

[TheWanderer]

He out-produced him by "just" a 12-14 point pace then? OK. I don't think that changes much. I hope you guys aren't holding your breath waiting for Jordan Schroeder to turn into the next Martin St. Louis...

Just because he is short... There is absolutely no other reason whatsoever to think he will become a player like this. He doesn't even have the skill-set...

 

[racerjoe]

Martin St-Louis was a terror in the AHL and got about 8 minutes a game in Calgary on the 4th line, they already had Theo Fleury scoring 30 goals a year and didn't want two tiny wingers with the way the NHL was leaning towards big players at the time. And let's not forget the guy evaluating him: Craig Button. It was a very unique situation. I get you're not comparing them, that's because you shouldn't be.

It's been 5 years and his contract is up without a lot to rest his hat on. Just 53 NHL games or not you don't have an infinite amount of time to hang on to a player hoping he puts it together at 25 years old. You have to make room for young players and stay comfortable under the contract limit. The Canucks have a big decision to make with Schroeder, we'll see what they do.

And where has JS spent most of his time? on the 4th line so how xan a player we both agree is superior not put points up on the 4th line different from JS doing the exact same thing at the exact same age.

All I am trying to say is it is too early to write him off.

Cuz he's 24.

Dammit I'm 24. I haven't played any games in the NHL! Can't say I'm a bust. Give me the Sedins to play with and see what I can do!

He'll get his QO or whatever, a 1 year deal, and will sink or swim (YET AGAIN! no chances my foot) at training camp, where he will (IMO, undoubtedly) loose his spot to Santorelli/Jensen/Dalpe/Horvat/any of our AHL prospects/Richardson/Matthias

It's ridiculous to think that this player is going to improve even quickly enough to keep himself on this team above the players we have moving up. If he's not gone next year, he will be when Horvat, Gaunce, Cassels, and Fox REALLY start making the push.

The only way Schroeder sticks is if Kesler is traded, we go full Pejorative Slur, and he is force-fed second line minutes until this team gets back on its feet. Even then, I bet Horvat beats Schroeder out for that opportunity.

At 24? you mean the same age as Martin St Louis was when he played 50 something games?

 

[LeftCoast]

He out-produced him by "just" a 12-14 point pace then? OK. I don't think that changes much. I hope you guys aren't holding your breath waiting for Jordan Schroeder to turn into the next Martin St. Louis...

I don't think there are any players that compare to Marty St. Louis. I think Derek Roy is a more appropriate "potential" comparison.

But he's not going to reach that potential here. He has run out of time here in Vancouver. Santorelli does everything you could hope Schroeder might do, and does it better. He might realize that potential if he is picked up by another team and give a chance to play meaningful minutes with skilled players.