Rumor: Jonathan Drouin wants out of Tampa

[CanaFan]

how about the no offense and no defense route

which team's route is that

Are you under the impression Vancouver is not allowed to make any more trades or sign any UFAs after making this hypothetical Drouin deal?

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

If you can score Drouin or a similar young talent for Edler I think you do it, then immediately turn to rebuilding the Blueline. Re-sign Hamhuis in hopes he can help stabilize as you rebuild the D core.

Would likely take 2 years but with Hutton starting ok and Biega looking like a potential NHL Dman perhaps we won't be as bad off in the mid term (although short term, we are screwed without Edler)

 

[ginner classic]

Because 20 y/o cost-controlled Drouin is currently a better and more valuable asset than 30 y/o Edler on a $5M AAV contract. Long term you build a contender by acquiring better assets when the opportunity arises, not turning them down because of positional need. You can always trade Drouin for a better or younger D man than Edler down the road or do the same with one of Shinkaruk or Baertschi or whomever. Positional needs can be addressed when this team has acquired a core of strong talent but worrying about it now (while we are still on the way down) is a mistake.

I'll say it again. You cannot win without top D. We have none in the system. If we trade valuable pieces like Edler we must get young d back.

Some teams that suck with lots of good forwards and **** d:

Edmonton
Philadelphia
Colorado
Columbus
Penguins
Boston
Dallas (pre Klingberg)

Teams with better D than fowards that have overacheived

Calgary last year
New Jersey this year

D take two to four years longer to develop than wingers. If you want to compete for a cup you have to start the rebuild from the back....like Philly finally just figured out.

Skilled top line wingers are literally the last piece you add...

 

[CanaFan]

I'll say it again. You cannot win without top D. We have none in the system. If we trade valuable pieces like Edler we must get young d back.

Some teams that suck with lots of good forwards and **** d:

Edmonton
Philadelphia
Colorado
Columbus
Penguins
Boston
Dallas (pre Klingberg)

Teams with better D than fowards that have overacheived

Calgary last year
New Jersey this year

D take two to four years longer to develop than wingers. If you want to compete for a cup you have to start the rebuild from the back....like Philly finally just figured out.

Skilled top line wingers are literally the last piece you add...

Sure, if we were trying to win a cup in the next 2-3 years I'd agree. But we aren't. We are going to be spending the next 2-3 years being really bad and trying to find forwards better than Chris Higgins and Radim Vrbata to play in our top 6, to say nothing of eventually needing to replace Daniel and Henrik.

We *need* to acquire high end talent full stop. If we can convert a 30 y/o #2 Dman into a 20 y/o potential 70 pt winger then you do it because that is a clear upgrade in value, not to mention the OP had Tampa tossing an extra 2nd pick.

This team has a *lot* of work to do before I'd be overly worried about positional need. If we load up on forwards then we can look to make a forward-for-defense trade, focus more draft picks on D, or sign one as a UFA like in the good ol' Gillis days. There are ways to replace Edler but not many chances to grab a player as young and talented as Drouin.

Edit: As for adding skilled top line wingers last, go check what year Vancouver added Daniel Sedin and then check what years we added Christian Erhoff, Dan Hamhuis, and Keith Ballard for the 2011 cup run. You might find the order doesn't align with what you are suggesting.

 

[Addison Rae]

Edler's value is higher than fans think for sure.

You're undervaluing Drouin in my opinion, I've been one of the biggest Edler advocates on here and have been told I overvalue him on the main board. You're trying to push this Drouin, Baertschi comparison but it isn't working if Drouin bounced around the AHL and NHL this season and then follows it up with a subpar AHL season than maybe you'll be onto something. As of right now you're looking at a 20 year old who had one of the best draft + 1 season in the past 10 years (in terms of junior) and followed that up with scoring at ~35 point pace with mostly bottom 6 minutes in his first 89 NHL games, he's actually been a fairly solid even strength contributor at the NHL level.

 

[ginner classic]

Sure, if we were trying to win a cup in the next 2-3 years I'd agree. But we aren't. We are going to be spending the next 2-3 years being really bad and trying to find forwards better than Chris Higgins and Radim Vrbata to play in our top 6, to say nothing of eventually needing to replace Daniel and Henrik.

We *need* to acquire high end talent full stop. If we can convert a 30 y/o #2 Dman into a 20 y/o potential 70 pt winger then you do it because that is a clear upgrade in value, not to mention the OP had Tampa tossing an extra 2nd pick.

This team has a *lot* of work to do before I'd be overly worried about positional need. If we load up on forwards then we can look to make a forward-for-defense trade, focus more draft picks on D, or sign one as a UFA like in the good ol' Gillis days. There are ways to replace Edler but not many chances to grab a player as young and talented as Drouin.

Edit: As for adding skilled top line wingers last, go check what year Vancouver added Daniel Sedin and then check what years we added Christian Erhoff, Dan Hamhuis, and Keith Ballard for the 2011 cup run. You might find the order doesn't align with what you are suggesting.

The relative age does matter. The time to develop from a draft pick is longer.

We have a massive imbalance in our young asdets because we have not taken a d-man in the first round since 2005. We already have Shinkaruk Boeser Virtanen Horvat McCann Baertschi Gaunce.....

On D....sweet f-all. And good luck trying to trade for them. Juat ask Edmonton Colorado Columbus et al how easy that is. You can't ever get top pairing impact NHL d.

If we trade Edler we need young D back.

We had Bertuzzi and Naslund....best two wingers in the world...no top line center.....we won nothing

We had Bure and Mogilny....we won nothing

Ovechkin, Kessel, Hall, Vanek, Kovalchuk/Hossa, Kariya/Selanne....elite to world class players that can't win you a cup because it's absolutely daft to build a team around an elite winger. They are a bonus but not a necessity. Elite D is a necessity. Top line center...necessity.

There is an unhealthy obsession with skilled young wingers here and I can't state enough times that it the least important piece and takes the least amount of time to develop. It's not a priority.

 

[ahmon]

If you can score Drouin or a similar young talent for Edler I think you do it, then immediately turn to rebuilding the Blueline. Re-sign Hamhuis in hopes he can help stabilize as you rebuild the D core.

Would likely take 2 years but with Hutton starting ok and Biega looking like a potential NHL Dman perhaps we won't be as bad off in the mid term (although short term, we are screwed without Edler)

The blueline needs rebuilding anyways. The "entire" team needs a rebuild.

We are screwed with or without Edler, he's really not that good that.

 

[Addison Rae]

The blueline needs rebuilding anyways. The "entire" team needs a rebuild.

We are screwed with or without Edler, he's really not that good that.

you can keep trying to push this "Edler is not good narrative" but it's just not true, at all. it's like me saying henrik sedin is not good despite all evidence pointing to the contrary.

 

[ahmon]

you can keep trying to push this "Edler is not good narrative" but it's just not true, at all. it's like me saying henrik sedin is not good despite all evidence pointing to the contrary.

It is, people just want to ignore it. Henrik Sedin was an art ross/hart winner.

When was Edler close to winning a norris?

He is mistake prone. Its blatantly obvious but again this board doesn't care. And honestly I care less what you think. I post because I express what I see.

 

[canwincup]

Only thing that concerns me about Drouin is that he is a smaller player without elite skating. Most of the high end players that are smaller in stature are elite skaters and Drouin is good but not great.

 

[ahmon]

Only thing that concerns me about Drouin is that he is a smaller player without elite skating. Most of the high end players that are smaller in stature are elite skaters and Drouin is good but not great.

you kidding me right, he won the fastest skater at the all star game. Skates extremely well..

 

[canwincup]

you kidding me right, he won the fastest skater at the all star game. Skates extremely well..

My bad then I haven't watched him much since the draft and I remember at the time of the draft they were concerned with his skating. The kid has high end talent that's for sure, I wouldn't sell the farm for him or trade our pick this year, but I would trade one of Horvat or McCann.

 

[ahmon]

My bad then I haven't watched him much since the draft and I remember at the time of the draft they were concerned with his skating. The kid has high end talent that's for sure, I wouldn't sell the farm for him or trade our pick this year, but I would trade one of Horvat or McCann.

no worries, but yeah he really skates well. And his agility is excellent.

His biggest risk imo is not talent/skill but his attitude/coachability. He's got lots to learn especially without the puck. He seems to have a big ego.

 

[canwincup]

no worries, but yeah he really skates well. And his agility is excellent.

His biggest risk imo is not talent/skill but his attitude/coachability. He's got lots to learn especially without the puck. He seems to have a big ego.

I think his ego will lessen as he gets older and matures, I can't really remember the last prospect we had with Drouin's skill level? Schroeder....maybe? Sedins? Lol

 

[The Drop]

i just fail to understand how his value is so high yet hasn't been able to stay in the NHL

 

[thepuckmonster]

no worries, but yeah he really skates well. And his agility is excellent.

His biggest risk imo is not talent/skill but his attitude/coachability. He's got lots to learn especially without the puck. He seems to have a big ego.

I'd say his biggest issue is durability. Cooper seems to hate him like AV hated Ballard.

Drouins injury history is significant enough to take a bit of a pause on it.

 

[canwincup]

i just fail to understand how his value is so high yet hasn't been able to stay in the NHL

Upside/potential! Makes people do crazy things lol!

 

[JuniorNelson]

I'd say his biggest issue is durability. Cooper seems to hate him like AV hated Ballard.

Drouins injury history is significant enough to take a bit of a pause on it.

Yup.

Ginner's post should be required reading, too.

This is the kind of offering that a team like Vancouver needs to make while dumping older players. To do other seriously invites disaster.

 

[Bleach Clean]

you can keep trying to push this "Edler is not good narrative" but it's just not true, at all. it's like me saying henrik sedin is not good despite all evidence pointing to the contrary.

It is, people just want to ignore it. Henrik Sedin was an art ross/hart winner.

When was Edler close to winning a norris?

He is mistake prone. Its blatantly obvious but again this board doesn't care. And honestly I care less what you think. I post because I express what I see.

Edler is just one of those players that has one constantly questioning the numbers. "Good" is a relative term. Good compared to what? Other mid-pairing Dmen? Possibly. Against bottom pairing defenders? Definitely. Against other top pairing Dmen? A case would have to be made.

So both of your statements could ring true, in a sense.

 

[Addison Rae]

It is, people just want to ignore it. Henrik Sedin was an art ross/hart winner.

When was Edler close to winning a norris?

He is mistake prone. Its blatantly obvious but again this board doesn't care. And honestly I care less what you think. I post because I express what I see.

Sure he's prone to mistakes, but at the end of the day he delivers good results. He's evolved very well the past two seasons, he's objectively a good player and gets good results, it's cool that you have an opinion but factually speaking Edler is good at hockey.

 

[thepuckmonster]

Edler is just one of those players that has one constantly questioning the numbers. "Good" is a relative term. Good compared to what? Other mid-pairing Dmen? Possibly. Against bottom pairing defenders? Definitely. Against other top pairing Dmen? A case would have to be made.

So both of your statements could ring true, in a sense.

A lot of people confuse #1 defenseman with a franchise defenseman.

Edler is absolutely a #1 defenseman by pretty much every statistic and metric in the book. Is he a lower tier #1? Yes. But he still is one.

 

[Addison Rae]

Edler is just one of those players that has one constantly questioning the numbers. "Good" is a relative term. Good compared to what? Other mid-pairing Dmen? Possibly. Against bottom pairing defenders? Definitely. Against other top pairing Dmen? A case would have to be made.

So both of your statements could ring true, in a sense.

I'd say he's a good #2 guy on a good contract and has been that for 2 years now. Playing against tough competition and getting the results a #2 guy gets.

 

[ginner classic]

Edler has been our #1 D for 6 or 7 years now. He plays the most minutes which makes him our top D. Simple metric but you can't refute it.

You want fancy stats? His Corsi Relative to Quality of Comp is the best on the team. He is a#1. He is our #1. He has been for years and years.

 

[WTG]

Edler has what 5 more years in him? Maybe?

Bringing in Drouin and tanking would allow us to get a top 5 pick + Drouin to replace the Sedins.

I'd be 100% on board.



Have to think long term.

 

[cc]

I would trade Edler for Drouin in a heartbeat.


I'm in the camp that thinks Edler gets overrated here

the problem with this team is as an organization, they tend to hold onto players well past their prime and well past them being worth anything significant.