Jonathan Bernier - To the AHL on a Conditioning Stint

[Divine]

It looks like he's really trying hard to get a cap-friendly contract going forward.

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[dballislife2]

play bernier and sometimes hes okay sometimes hes not, and we lose games...play reimer and sometimes hes okay sometimes hes not, and we lose games...it doesnt even really matter as long as we keep losing games

i know u cant really completely judge a goalie until you've put a good team infront of him...but these two are looking like two average goalies...and to challenge for a cup u dont need the best or top elite goalies in hockey, but u still need a very good one

 

[Ovate]

When Bernier's on, he's a #1 goalie. When Bernier's not on, he lets in 5 goals on 27 shots. He was .923 going into last night's game.

He needs a good goalie coach, a relaxing weekend meditation getaway, and some decent defensemen in front of him. Like it or not, he's the best the Leafs have. Starting goalies are not available through trade, and damn hard to draft. We've got to do everything we can to make Bernier work out for us, even if we're exploring other options in that time.

Also keep in mind that goalies fluctuate wildly from year to year, nevermind game to game. Price was .905 just three years ago, while Bobrovsky won the Vezina at .932.

 

[airbus220]

It looks like he's really trying hard to get a cap-friendly contract going forward.

Let's wait and see what he can do today.

 

[The Iceman]

Vesa Toskola 2.0

 

[JEI]

When Bernier's on, he's a #1 goalie. When Bernier's not on, he lets in 5 goals on 27 shots. He was .923 going into last night's game.

He needs a good goalie coach, a relaxing weekend meditation getaway, and some decent defensemen in front of him. Like it or not, he's the best the Leafs have. Starting goalies are not available through trade, and damn hard to draft. We've got to do everything we can to make Bernier work out for us, even if we're exploring other options in that time.

Also keep in mind that goalies fluctuate wildly from year to year, nevermind game to game. Price was .905 just three years ago, while Bobrovsky won the Vezina at .932.

Agreed.

He's around for at least another season so might as well let him find his groove. I wonder how they'll handle long-term contacts with their goalies. Unless they're an elite goaltender, makes little sense to invest big $$$ into them IMO.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Agreed.

He's around for at least another season so might as well let him find his groove. I wonder how they'll handle long-term contacts with their goalies. Unless they're an elite goaltender, makes little sense to invest big $$$ into them IMO.

Spot on.

I said it in the PGT but Bernier's performance was very weird. We gave up a ton of high quality scoring chances on those 27 shots they had, but he actually performed very well on those chances. What he didn't do is make the saves that you expect.

Something happened to him when this team fell apart at the beginning of the year. I think it's only fair to give him the season to get passed that.

 

[KGL]

Agreed.

He's around for at least another season so might as well let him find his groove. I wonder how they'll handle long-term contacts with their goalies. Unless they're an elite goaltender, makes little sense to invest big $$$ into them IMO.

Agreed. I'm a believer of 'goalies are voodoo'. No goalie is worth big money unless they are elite as they are the only goalies who are consistently great. Everyone else seems to fluctuate.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Agreed. I'm a believer of 'goalies are voodoo'. No goalie is worth big money unless they are elite as they are the only goalies who are consistently great. Everyone else seems to fluctuate.

There was a good article about that floating around for a while. It made a very good case of just what you are talking about here.

I think the smart thing to do with Bernier is to give him the year. If he can come off the season with a .92+ sv% then you give him another contract, one or two years, with good money. After that we can look at term. If he falters again, then he's not worth that long term contract and we either keep him around as a stop gap or let him move on.

 

[YOYOTCROSTER*]

I would not sign any goalie on Leafs currently to anymore than 2.9M/year which means Bernier will either get traded or they will let him go. Bernier has elite skill level but has a grade 1 brain. Too many gaffes on routine shots. You can't have a starting nhl goalie who consistently gives up 1 or 2 softies per start. Even if he makes 2 10 bellers like he did on Saturday night. This is his MO give up a softie or 2 and make 2 or 3 10 bellers. Apparently Babs warned him at practice last week that Reimer is getting a run for next while if his performance did not improve.

 

[Ovate]

There was a good article about that floating around for a while. It made a very good case of just what you are talking about here.

I think the smart thing to do with Bernier is to give him the year. If he can come off the season with a .92+ sv% then you give him another contract, one or two years, with good money. After that we can look at term. If he falters again, then he's not worth that long term contract and we either keep him around as a stop gap or let him move on.

He's on a two year contract, so you might as well give him a good chunk of the second year to show what he's got too. It's not like teams are going to offer any great deals for him after this year if he has a poor performance.

 

[34]

Not even close to a #1.

 

[Nithoniniel]

He's on a two year contract, so you might as well give him a good chunk of the second year to show what he's got too. It's not like teams are going to offer any great deals for him after this year if he has a poor performance.

For some reason I thought his contract ended after this season. Brain fart.

Anywho, I think with Bernier it's a question of whether or not he can show that the year he's had is an outlier. If he goes through another season of mediocre play, then we can probably quite comfortably place him in the category of "talented but inconsistent". And you shouldn't give term and money to goaltenders like that.

 

[WhataStick]

Waste of 8 million dollars 2 years!! Totally incompetent as a goalie . Watched him enough to know you can't rely on him. Looks dazed out . Can't believe he asked for more money last summer -what a joke!! Time to give Bibeau a shot -he can't be worse than Bernier

 

[p.l.f.]

Not a big fan

 

[Ovate]

Bernier's performance by start so far

MTL (Oct 7): .929 SV%, 26 of 28 shots
DET: .667 SV%, 6 of 9 shots, 1 PP GA, pulled after 20:20
PIT: .939 SV%, 31 of 33 shots
BUF: .971 SV%, 34 of 35 shots
MTL: .815 SV%, 22 of 27 shots, 2 PP GA, 1 SH GA

In three of his five starts, Bernier gave the team a great chance to win it but was let down with goal support. One game he flat out blew. In one game he had a weak performance and was further let down by special teams.

It's not like he's never good, it's just that he's inconsistent. If he can improve his ratio of good to average to bad games, he can still be a starter.

Interestingly, he has yet to let in more than 2 ES goals in a single game.

No ****ing way either of the Marlies goalies gives us a shot to win 3/5 games the way Bernier did. Plus, you know, development. I hear that's pretty important in a rebuild.

 

[showtime8]

Bernier's performance by start so far

MTL (Oct 7): .929 SV%, 26 of 28 shots
DET: .667 SV%, 6 of 9 shots, 1 PP GA, pulled after 20:20
PIT: .939 SV%, 31 of 33 shots
BUF: .971 SV%, 34 of 35 shots
MTL: .815 SV%, 22 of 27 shots, 2 PP GA, 1 SH GA

In three of his five starts, Bernier gave the team a great chance to win it but was let down with goal support. One game he flat out blew. In one game he had a weak performance and was further let down by special teams.

It's not like he's never good, it's just that he's inconsistent. If he can improve his ratio of good to average to bad games, he can still be a starter.

Interestingly, he has yet to let in more than 2 ES goals in a single game.

No ****ing way either of the Marlies goalies gives us a shot to win 3/5 games the way Bernier did. Plus, you know, development. I hear that's pretty important in a rebuild.

There's a lot of elements that go into those numbers and probably why the Leafs haven't won a game.

It's tough when you are chasing the game right from the first shot of the game. You play differently. You approach the game in a different manner when you know you have to score twice as many as what you usually should. And for a team that can't score, it will be tough.

There have been stretches where he's looked good. But then you get the laughable goals.

No way I bring either goalie up from the Marlies this season. This is Bibeau's 2nd year in pro hockey and Sparks' 2nd in the AHL. And for goalies, they generally don't hit their peak until their mid to late 20's. I wouldn't be surprised to see either goaltender there for another 2-3 years. And there's nothing wrong with doing that. Here's a quick list of goalies that have done that:

Jimmy Howard - 3 years of NCAA, 4 years of AHL (31 years old)
Martin Jones - 4 years of WHL, 3 years of AHL (25 years old)
Ben Bishop - 3 years of NCAA, 4 years of AHL (28 years old)
Braden Holtby - 4 years of WHL, 3.5 years of AHL, 0.5 years in ECHL (26 years old)

These goalies (minus Howard) are just starting to hit their prime right now and it shows.

And this is why you develop.

You can take a huge gamble and draft a goalie in the first round and it turns out like Carey Price. Or you could find yourself drafting Jack Campbell 11th overall who is currently playing in the ECHL.

 

[airbus220]

There's a lot of elements that go into those numbers and probably why the Leafs haven't won a game.

It's tough when you are chasing the game right from the first shot of the game. You play differently. You approach the game in a different manner when you know you have to score twice as many as what you usually should. And for a team that can't score, it will be tough.

There have been stretches where he's looked good. But then you get the laughable goals.

No way I bring either goalie up from the Marlies this season. This is Bibeau's 2nd year in pro hockey and Sparks' 2nd in the AHL. And for goalies, they generally don't hit their peak until their mid to late 20's. I wouldn't be surprised to see either goaltender there for another 2-3 years. And there's nothing wrong with doing that. Here's a quick list of goalies that have done that:

Jimmy Howard - 3 years of NCAA, 4 years of AHL (31 years old)
Martin Jones - 4 years of WHL, 3 years of AHL (25 years old)
Ben Bishop - 3 years of NCAA, 4 years of AHL (28 years old)
Braden Holtby - 4 years of WHL, 3.5 years of AHL, 0.5 years in ECHL (26 years old)

These goalies (minus Howard) are just starting to hit their prime right now and it shows.

And this is why you develop.

You can take a huge gamble and draft a goalie in the first round and it turns out like Carey Price. Or you could find yourself drafting Jack Campbell 11th overall who is currently playing in the ECHL.

Why waste draft picks when you could get Neuvirth for free only paying 1.625M, cheaper than Reimer and much cheaper than Bernier. Only needed was to be brave and trade Bernier for whatever you could get. His save% is .947 good enough to win games. Sad Shanahan wasn't brave enough.

 

[Ovate]

Why waste draft picks when you could get Neuvirth for free only paying 1.625M, cheaper than Reimer and much cheaper than Bernier. Only needed was to be brave and trade Bernier for whatever you could get. His save% is .947 good enough to win games. Sad Shanahan wasn't brave enough.

Right, no doubt that Neuvirth's SV% will stay at .947 and never regress back to his career average of .912. Why wasn't every team competing for him? Why isn't Philly starting him every game?

But Raanta is .978! Why settle for Neuvirth when we could have traded for Raanta at the cost of a B-prospect. This guy is going to break every goalie record this season.

 

[Nithoniniel]

It's tough when you are chasing the game right from the first shot of the game. You play differently. You approach the game in a different manner when you know you have to score twice as many as what you usually should. And for a team that can't score, it will be tough.

Sure. But it's worth mentioning that outside that Detroit game, the team has played very well even after the soft goals Bernier has let in. For us to talk about what an effect the soft goals have on the team, there should at least be a noticeable effect on the ice. If we instead continue playing the same, or even better, then that effect is either not there or not something to worry about.

 

[airbus220]

Right, no doubt that Neuvirth's SV% will stay at .947 and never regress back to his career average of .912. Why wasn't every team competing for him? Why isn't Philly starting him every game?

But Raanta is .978! Why settle for Neuvirth when we could have traded for Raanta at the cost of a B-prospect. This guy is going to break every goalie record this season.

Neuvirth is much more proven than Raanta and why give up assets when you could get Neuvirth for free. I just like to mention Neuvirth because I mentioned him before the season too.

 

[makbeer]

If NHL teams were as reactive as forum fans Henrik would have been run out of New York a few times over for his slow starts to seasons. Goalies take a good 30 games to get an accurate read on how they are doing. Numbers fluctuate too much early in the season it's pointless.

 

[White Water Kayker]

If NHL teams were as reactive as forum fans Henrik would have been run out of New York a few times over for his slow starts to seasons. Goalies take a good 30 games to get an accurate read on how they are doing. Numbers fluctuate too much early in the season it's pointless.

Granted, but I think we have seen more than enough of Bernier in the last few seasons to know what he's all about.

I would be shocked if he is, at this juncture, penciled in long-term on this team. The question then of course becomes, "If not him, then who?"

 

[Ovate]

Neuvirth is much more proven than Raanta and why give up assets when you could get Neuvirth for free. I just like to mention Neuvirth because I mentioned him before the season too.

Neuvirth is much more proven than Raanta... As a .912 career goaltender.

He's proven he's a backup, that doesn't give his recent play (still as a backup) any more credibility or suggest that he can be a starter.

 

[airbus220]

Neuvirth is much more proven than Raanta... As a .912 career goaltender.

He's proven he's a backup, that doesn't give his recent play (still as a backup) any more credibility or suggest that he can be a starter.

I'm not even interested in a starter, they are too expensive and when injured the season is lost. I'm only interested in backup type goalies and Bernier is too expensive in that role. I would alternate my goalies. What happened to Bernier and Reimer now with misusing them would likely not happen when alternated. Using them to their strength would improve their performance too. The saved money I would invest on D.