Jonathan Bernier - Player Discussion 2016

[MikeBabchuk]

I'm on Reimer's side for the simple reason that we drafted him and the numbers now show that there was no reason now to have traded for Bernier in the summer of 2013.

That's pretty much what it boils down to for me as well.

Yes I admit I hated the fact that Nonis made "the trade" and brought in Bernier. It is one of a number of decisions he made that were very questionable to say the least. We could debate the blunders of David Nono and the doghouse occupants of Randolph Carlol, for that matter, all day, but what's done is done.

We could also debate the whys behind why Reimer had a really tough ~one and a half seasons under Carlyle once Bernier came in, and we can debate the whys behind why Bernier played out of his mind for half a season but has regressed to a modest .909 save % since January 1, 2014.

Yup, they've both had ups and downs. Reimer has been called out for his flaws, and after this recent spell, Bernier has certainly had all his flaws wrung out and laid out as well.

The bottom line is, both are just entering their prime years, and one has made strides, refined his technical game, and is having a breakout season. All he needs to do is get healthy.

The other has been below average for two calendar years now, overall, but despite this he shows flashes of brilliance but just can't seem to keep his focus and put it all together on a nightly basis.

Right now Reimer has the edge, but things could still change by the end of the year. I think it's time to choose one or the other though by the conclusion of this season or earlier, because next year the guy who has earned the job based on his play this season deserves a shot at running with it, with a solid veteran backup behind him and the full confidence of Babcock.

Of course both of them could still get lit up and leave us with no bright spot by the end of the season, but let's hope one stands out as the guy going forward and the other can be moved along.

 

[TLeafsFan]

That's pretty much what it boils down to for me as well.

Yes I admit I hated the fact that Nonis made "the trade" and brought in Bernier. It is one of a number of decisions he made that were very questionable to say the least. We could debate the blunders of David Nono and the doghouse occupants of Randolph Carlol, for that matter, all day, but what's done is done.

We could also debate the whys behind why Reimer had a really tough ~one and a half seasons under Carlyle once Bernier came in, and we can debate the whys behind why Bernier played out of his mind for half a season but has regressed to a modest .909 save % since January 1, 2014.

Yup, they've both had ups and downs. Reimer has been called out for his flaws, and after this recent spell, Bernier has certainly had all his flaws wrung out and laid out as well.

The bottom line is, both are just entering their prime years, and one has made strides, refined his technical game, and is having a breakout season. All he needs to do is get healthy.

The other has been below average for two calendar years now, overall, but despite this he shows flashes of brilliance but just can't seem to keep his focus and put it all together on a nightly basis.

Right now Reimer has the edge, but things could still change by the end of the year. I think it's time to choose one or the other though by the conclusion of this season or earlier, because next year the guy who has earned the job based on his play this season deserves a shot at running with it, with a solid veteran backup behind him and the full confidence of Babcock.

Of course both of them could still get lit up and leave us with no bright spot by the end of the season, but let's hope one stands out as the guy going forward and the other can be moved along.

I agree wholeheartedly. This season needs to be Bernier VS. Reimer: The final rematch.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Bernier has always been better than Reimer, partly due to the fact that Reimer can't stay healthy and because just simply, he's the superior goaltender.

*Incoming sv% stats from Zeke*

Except Bernier has been injured at times as well and the numbers don't back up your assessment.

Reimer can't stay healthy more than Bernier and Bernier the better goalie is a myth.

Bernier has had surgery due to injury, no?

Has Reimer had surgery due to injury or is our new Sports sciences ensuring that doesn't happen, so he's all good in the groin area for the 2nd half of the season?

The other thing is that the biggest injury Reimer has had is getting a concussion from a guy elbowing him in the head.. I really do feel that is what caused most of his dip in performance for a while.

There's fanboys on both sides. Nobody can admit their bias, but I do find it interesting this thread gets busy after one or two good Bernier games.

I'm assuming most of 2015 they avoided it like the plague.

I'll be the first to admit that from the outside looking in, I like Reimer better. But then again I often go for the underdogs who aren't given a fair shake.

I'm on Reimer's side for the simple reason that we drafted him and the numbers now show that there was no reason now to have traded for Bernier in the summer of 2013.

Right. I never understood why they traded for the only position they didn't really have a problem with at that time.

 

[Paradoc]

There's fanboys on both sides. Nobody can admit their bias, but I do find it interesting this thread gets busy after one or two good Bernier games.

I'm assuming most of 2015 they avoided it like the plague.

Like Reimer fan boys the last two years.

 

[TLeafsFan]

Except Bernier has been injured at times as well and the numbers don't back up your assessment.




The other thing is that the biggest injury Reimer has had is getting a concussion from a guy elbowing him in the head.. I really do feel that is what caused most of his dip in performance for a while.




I'll be the first to admit that from the outside looking in, I like Reimer better. But then again I often go for the underdogs who aren't given a fair shake.




Right. I never understood why they traded for the only position they didn't really have a problem with at that time.

Didn't that concussion happen BEFORE his big season and playoff run though?

Regarless of the past, Reimer is still an all heart workhorse who developed his game this off-season beyond that of Bernier's game and worked hard at it and has benefited from it like Dubnyk did.

He developed so well this off season that he is currently a top five NHL starting goaltender this season, let alone better than Bernier.

And that is OBJECTIVELY speaking.

 

[Paradoc]

Didn't that concussion happen BEFORE his big season and playoff run though?

Regarless of the past, Reimer is still an all heart workhorse who developed his game this off-season beyond that of Bernier's game and worked hard at it and has benefited from it like Dubnyk did.

He developed so well this off season that he is currently a top five NHL starting goaltender this season, let alone better than Bernier.

And that is OBJECTIVELY speaking.

Luongo, Holtby, Fleury, Schneider, Allen. Already named 5 goaltenders that are having better seasons than Reimer

He'd would be right up there with Gibson, Griess, and Neuvirth.

 

[TLeafsFan]

Luongo, Holtby, Fleury, Schneider, Allen. Already named 5 goaltenders that are having better seasons than Reimer

He'd would be right up there with Gibson, Griess, and Neuvirth.

Try looking at an actual goaltender's stat.

SV % for a goalie that has played in 15 or more games this season. Reimer is 2nd. 3rd in GAA using the same criteria.

W/L is a team stat.

 

[hockeyes]

The part I find funny is that despite Bernier being praised for his "calm technical style" he plays way better when he looks more like Reimer.

 

[Nithoniniel]

The part I find funny is that despite Bernier being praised for his "calm technical style" he plays way better when he looks more like Reimer.

Really? I feel like it's the complete opposite.

That's pretty much what it boils down to for me as well.

Yes I admit I hated the fact that Nonis made "the trade" and brought in Bernier. It is one of a number of decisions he made that were very questionable to say the least. We could debate the blunders of David Nono and the doghouse occupants of Randolph Carlol, for that matter, all day, but what's done is done.

We could also debate the whys behind why Reimer had a really tough ~one and a half seasons under Carlyle once Bernier came in, and we can debate the whys behind why Bernier played out of his mind for half a season but has regressed to a modest .909 save % since January 1, 2014.

Yup, they've both had ups and downs. Reimer has been called out for his flaws, and after this recent spell, Bernier has certainly had all his flaws wrung out and laid out as well.

The bottom line is, both are just entering their prime years, and one has made strides, refined his technical game, and is having a breakout season. All he needs to do is get healthy.

The other has been below average for two calendar years now, overall, but despite this he shows flashes of brilliance but just can't seem to keep his focus and put it all together on a nightly basis.

Right now Reimer has the edge, but things could still change by the end of the year. I think it's time to choose one or the other though by the conclusion of this season or earlier, because next year the guy who has earned the job based on his play this season deserves a shot at running with it, with a solid veteran backup behind him and the full confidence of Babcock.

Of course both of them could still get lit up and leave us with no bright spot by the end of the season, but let's hope one stands out as the guy going forward and the other can be moved along.

Very good post, MB.

 

[Fogelhund]

All of us should be in the Leafs camp... really we should hope that both excel, and one becomes our bonafide #1, with the other being a valuable trade chip. Maybe it will happen, maybe it won't. Bernier has been decent recently... especially against the Blues. Let's hope that is a trend, and that Reimer comes back soon, and is as good as he was before getting hurt.

 

[Liferleafer]

Bernier reminds me of Ken Wregget...(lol...dating myself). It seems the more shots he sees, the better he plays.

 

[Daisy Jane]

would be nice to have people be critical, or just state their opinions (or simply not liking a player but having leigitmate reasons to do so) and not have to read through pages of "fanboy" "Haterz" etc. it's extremely aggravating.


Reimer is doing really well, but he has a lot of question marks (ie: his health)
Bernier is doing well again, but I stand by what I said. I would have waived him and accepted the contract space + 4.1 in savings and make a deal (or claim someone). I'd still trade Bernier. in a heart beat.


I'd also trade Reimer. In a heart beat.

both have their issues, and imo we can improve on both.(it will take a while imo - but...)

 

[hockeyes]

Really? I feel like it's the complete opposite.

The last two games he has been way more aggressive in challenging shots and less concerned about rebounds or passes, it's put him in some interesting positions where desperation saves are required. All year prior he looked like he wanted to move as little as possible to remain upright and in position for a 2nd or 3rd attempt. I think he's finally figured out that the 2nd and 3rd attempt doesn't matter when the 1st muffin gets deflected in.

This is just my opinion of course.

 

[MikeBabchuk]

would be nice to have people be critical, or just state their opinions (or simply not liking a player but having leigitmate reasons to do so) and not have to read through pages of "fanboy" "Haterz" etc. it's extremely aggravating.


Reimer is doing really well, but he has a lot of question marks (ie: his health)
Bernier is doing well again, but I stand by what I said. I would have waived him and accepted the contract space + 4.1 in savings and make a deal (or claim someone). I'd still trade Bernier. in a heart beat.


I'd also trade Reimer. In a heart beat.

both have their issues, and imo we can improve on both.(it will take a while imo - but...)

Isn't Reimer's health only one question mark?

 

[Daisy Jane]

Isn't Reimer's health only one question mark?

i would also argue if he could be consistent. (when he's healthy). to me - it really seems that Reimer burns hot - or runs really cold.

 

[Paradoc]

Try looking at an actual goaltender's stat.

SV % for a goalie that has played in 15 or more games this season. Reimer is 2nd. 3rd in GAA using the same criteria.

W/L is a team stat.

Then Neuvirth would be the best goalie. Reimer is good but he's played way less games and has an unsustainable ES sv %. If he plays 25 games and has the same sv %, then I would agree he's top 5 goaltender this year.

 

[eddieO]

Then Neuvirth would be the best goalie. Reimer is good but he's played way less games and has an unsustainable ES sv %. If he plays 25 games and has the same sv %, then I would agree he's top 5 goaltender this year.

All he said was Reimer is a top-5 goalie this year, that's a fact.

 

[TMLegend]

All he said was Reimer is a top-5 goalie this year, that's a fact.

Nope. You actually have to play and maintain your stats for that to be a fact.

 

[Mats13]

There's fanboys on both sides. Nobody can admit their bias, but I do find it interesting this thread gets busy after one or two good Bernier games.

I'm assuming most of 2015 they avoided it like the plague.

I prefer Bernier and I posted when he was playing awful. I criticized him because he deserved it, but I always maintained he was the better goalie.

Reimer fans can never admit when he plays poorly and most have a hard time giving Bernier any credit. You've been quoted as hating Bernier for basically no reason other than him taking the crease from your golden child, so don't act like your free of the bias you accuse others of.

 

[MikeBabchuk]

i would also argue if he could be consistent. (when he's healthy). to me - it really seems that Reimer burns hot - or runs really cold.

I think for sure Reimer's main goal now is to finish this season with more than 40 games played and keep his game at a high level.

If he does that, he puts himself in position to get a short term deal to prove his breakout season can translate to a starter's workload beginning next season.

 

[MikeBabchuk]

I prefer Bernier and I posted when he was playing awful. I criticized him because he deserved it, but I always maintained he was the better goalie.

Reimer fans can never admit when he plays poorly and most have a hard time giving Bernier any credit. You've been quoted as hating Bernier for basically no reason other than him taking the crease from your golden child, so don't act like your free of the bias you accuse others of.

You just admitted you always maintained that Bernier was the better goalie even when he was playing awful, despite the stats that indicate no significant overall difference career-wise, and the stats that give Reimer a short-term edge. Isn't that bias at its finest?

 

[saltming]

would be nice to have people be critical, or just state their opinions (or simply not liking a player but having leigitmate reasons to do so) and not have to read through pages of "fanboy" "Haterz" etc. it's extremely aggravating.


Reimer is doing really well, but he has a lot of question marks (ie: his health)
Bernier is doing well again, but I stand by what I said. I would have waived him and accepted the contract space + 4.1 in savings and make a deal (or claim someone). I'd still trade Bernier. in a heart beat.


I'd also trade Reimer. In a heart beat.

both have their issues, and imo we can improve on both.(it will take a while imo - but...)

I agree about trading them both, but I wouldn't do that until we have a better goalie.imo it makes no sense to throw something out if you cannot replace it, or better yet upgrade it.

 

[Mats13]

You just admitted you always maintained that Bernier was the better goalie even when he was playing awful, despite the stats that indicate no significant overall difference career-wise, and the stats that give Reimer a short-term edge. Isn't that bias at its finest?

Yes, I have always maintained Bernier is the better goalie.

BUT, when Bernier was struggling, I criticized him and said we should start Reimer.

Criticizing Reimer is seen as offensive by some people. You can't even make an honest statement about him without being called a Bernier fanboy... It's ridiculous

Everyone has bias. I just said a prefer Bernier, nowhere in my post did I say I didn't have bias.

 

[Mats13]

would be nice to have people be critical, or just state their opinions (or simply not liking a player but having leigitmate reasons to do so) and not have to read through pages of "fanboy" "Haterz" etc. it's extremely aggravating.


Reimer is doing really well, but he has a lot of question marks (ie: his health)
Bernier is doing well again, but I stand by what I said. I would have waived him and accepted the contract space + 4.1 in savings and make a deal (or claim someone). I'd still trade Bernier. in a heart beat.


I'd also trade Reimer. In a heart beat.

both have their issues, and imo we can improve on both.(it will take a while imo - but...)

Sorry, but the bolded is just stupid. Even the most dedicated Bernier hater would agree it's stupid to just give away an asset for free. You don't move assets at their lowest value... that's some serious Dave Nonis talk right there.

 

[Paradoc]

All he said was Reimer is a top-5 goalie this year, that's a fact.

That's not a fact...