Jonathan Bernier - And right back into the starting role

[MikeBabchuk]

Agreed, but bias also has context, I don't think you should really like or dislike a hockey player because of anything other than their play on the ice, especially when you're trying to determine the players place in the teams plans. I think that's fair?

Doesn't off-ice conduct speak to their character? I think it's totally relevant when having certain players on your team.

Granted, I am unimpressed with Bernier's off-ice behaviour, although his on-ice performance is capable of trumping that, as is the case with most other players.

Would you take Vyacheslav Voynov on the Leafs? Semyon Varlamov? Michael Richards?

Generally though, I think with guys like Kessel and Bernier, where there's smoke, there's fire. There is something questionable with their conduct and if they are doing poorly, there's really no benefit to keeping them around ultimately.

 

[I Am The Stig]

Doesn't off-ice conduct speak to their character? I think it's totally relevant when having certain players on your team.

Granted, I am unimpressed with Bernier's off-ice behaviour, although his on-ice performance is capable of trumping that, as is the case with most other players.

Would you take Vyacheslav Voynov on the Leafs? Semyon Varlamov? Michael Richards?

Generally though, I think with guys like Kessel and Bernier, where there's smoke, there's fire. There is something questionable with their conduct and if they are doing poorly, there's really no benefit to keeping them around ultimately.

From what I've heard though, Bernier's off ice behavior doesn't make him a ******* like Voynov or if we wanna talk other sports, Greg Hardy on the Dallas Cowboys, but really just an idiot. I'd take an idiot over a ******* on my team any day.

 

[Muston Atthews]

Doesn't off-ice conduct speak to their character? I think it's totally relevant when having certain players on your team.

Granted, I am unimpressed with Bernier's off-ice behaviour, although his on-ice performance is capable of trumping that, as is the case with most other players.

Would you take Vyacheslav Voynov on the Leafs? Semyon Varlamov? Michael Richards?

Generally though, I think with guys like Kessel and Bernier, where there's smoke, there's fire. There is something questionable with their conduct and if they are doing poorly, there's really no benefit to keeping them around ultimately.

Seems like a whole lot of speculation bordering on slander...

 

[MikeBabchuk]

Seems like a whole lot of speculation bordering on slander...

Don't you mean libel? But in any event, I don't see the provocation for your severe accusation. Please elaborate.

 

[MikeBabchuk]

From what I've heard though, Bernier's off ice behavior doesn't make him a ******* like Voynov or if we wanna talk other sports, Greg Hardy on the Dallas Cowboys, but really just an idiot. I'd take an idiot over a ******* on my team any day.

No, that's true.

But let's put it this way: when you're playing well, no one really cares what you do off the ice, within reason. But when things go poorly and you seem disengaged and more interested in being on TV or attending exclusive events, it sends a certain message.

Guys are of course entitled to have lives. But take Ovechkin who lives and breathes hockey and compare him to Daigle who, on paper, might be a superstar as well, but on the ice simply wasn't, despite his draft position and potential.

 

[Mats13]

Doesn't off-ice conduct speak to their character? I think it's totally relevant when having certain players on your team.

Granted, I am unimpressed with Bernier's off-ice behaviour, although his on-ice performance is capable of trumping that, as is the case with most other players.

Would you take Vyacheslav Voynov on the Leafs? Semyon Varlamov? Michael Richards?

Generally though, I think with guys like Kessel and Bernier, where there's smoke, there's fire. There is something questionable with their conduct and if they are doing poorly, there's really no benefit to keeping them around ultimately.

I'd love to see the sources you used to spew this load of crap....

Oh wait, they don't exist

 

[King Leaf]

Doesn't off-ice conduct speak to their character? I think it's totally relevant when having certain players on your team.

Granted, I am unimpressed with Bernier's off-ice behaviour, although his on-ice performance is capable of trumping that, as is the case with most other players.

Would you take Vyacheslav Voynov on the Leafs? Semyon Varlamov? Michael Richards?

Generally though, I think with guys like Kessel and Bernier, where there's smoke, there's fire. There is something questionable with their conduct and if they are doing poorly, there's really no benefit to keeping them around ultimately.

Most of the arguments in this thread have been said over and over for both goalies, but this one is new so I'll bite.

First of all, all 3 of those guys were charged with a crime. So the fact that you've somehow looped Bernier in with them (and Kessel for that matter) is confusing to begin with.

Second and slightly unrelated, you're the first person I've ever seen refer to Slava Voynov and Mike Richards as Vjrdnbdsjshslav and Michael.

Thirdly, where is the smoke? For either player? I'm not going to bother defending Kessel's character because it's not relevant to this thread. But I'd love to know what exactly Bernier has done? Yes, he's on a TV show. I 100% guarantee you that he isn't a creator of the show. He was asked to do it and he's doing, presumably cause it's fun, extra money, and helps further his wife's career. Oh no he likes to have fun, make money and support his wife. The Mandela thing? Stupid slip up on his part, but ultimately harmless. Go to a trivia night at a bar one day, you'll be shocked how much general knowledge we all don't know. The only other thing I can think of is that he plays pretty calmly which some people think means 0 passion. Which is dumb, get seats in the lower bowl behind the net when they're playing the Habs and compare his intensity level with Price's and see how similar they are. They both play a style that by nature should result in few scrambly plays. If it isn't any of the above and you have some other dirt on him I'd love to hear it and some sources. If not, well, then your character argument is kind of bull, not matter how much flowery language you use to phrase it.


Oh, and to answer your original question, I couldn't care less what theyre doing off the ice as long as they're not hurting anybody. As long as they show up to play, why does it matter to me? Everyone seems to think they understand a celebrity cause of the few random sound bites and footage they see, when in reality we know pretty much nothing about them.

 

[TMLegend]

Doesn't off-ice conduct speak to their character? I think it's totally relevant when having certain players on your team.

Granted, I am unimpressed with Bernier's off-ice behaviour, although his on-ice performance is capable of trumping that, as is the case with most other players.

Would you take Vyacheslav Voynov on the Leafs? Semyon Varlamov? Michael Richards?

Generally though, I think with guys like Kessel and Bernier, where there's smoke, there's fire. There is something questionable with their conduct and if they are doing poorly, there's really no benefit to keeping them around ultimately.

Please do tell us of Bernier's off-ice behavior since you seem to be right in the know about it? Please tell us about this "smoke".

Substantiate these claims or you're full of crap.

 

[senor martinez]

Bernier is just a beautiful goalie who has now taken care of business real good. He did alright in every situation, fall back, moved back and now he's back.

He is playing real solid right now and getting wins for michael babcock. He surely loves that there. Reimer is not fit, he can't play 40 games this season, clearly. Not fit enough. Didn't train the correct way evidently.

 

[eddieO]

Ah I see, yeah I guess I see what you're saying about the word projection, especially because the person you quoted was saying Bernier currently projects to be a better goalie than Reimer which I'm not sure anyone can say with any certainty.

As for the bias thing I do agree we all have biases of course, but I believe you said you didn't like Bernier right when we made the trade which is obviously before anyone got a good look at his play. And as we're both Kings fans I'm sure you saw the same little bit I did which was that he was a very talented goalie with some growing pains who tore it up in the A and Q. So I do believe that that dislike for Bernier makes you...not incapable but slightly unreliable judge of Bernier's long term future here.




Agreed, but bias also has context, I don't think you should really like or dislike a hockey player because of anything other than their play on the ice, especially when you're trying to determine the players place in the teams plans. I think that's fair?

Nobody on these boards is a reliable judge of Bernier's long term future here. Not you, not me, not anyone. Nobody here is an advance scout, and even if they were, scouts are wrong a lot of the time too.

I live in LA and watch the Kings a lot. A lot of my friends are Kings fans, and not one of them thought losing Bernier was a big deal. That's anecdotal, I know. But there was a small sample where we saw him play and he was just OK.

I dislike him for a couple of reasons I've mentioned ad nauseam: height and focus. I think he's small for a goalie and plays smaller in net. I think his focus is lacking and that's been more apparent as time goes on.

I disliked him the day the trade was announced because: A) I've seen him B) he's undersized and C) I thought goaltending wasn't an area of need for us and I certainly didn't think Jonathan Bernier was an upgrade on Reimer and it turns out, that was true.

I'm open with my bias and again, I wish him well. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion on players but to say I'm not a reliable judge well, that's pretty obvious. You're not going to find a reliable judge here. You'll find opinions you agree with and opinions you don't.

 

[King Leaf]

Nobody on these boards is a reliable judge of Bernier's long term future here. Not you, not me, not anyone. Nobody here is an advance scout, and even if they were, scouts are wrong a lot of the time too.

I live in LA and watch the Kings a lot. A lot of my friends are Kings fans, and not one of them thought losing Bernier was a big deal. That's anecdotal, I know. But there was a small sample where we saw him play and he was just OK.

I dislike him for a couple of reasons I've mentioned ad nauseam: height and focus. I think he's small for a goalie and plays smaller in net. I think his focus is lacking and that's been more apparent as time goes on.

I disliked him the day the trade was announced because: A) I've seen him B) he's undersized and C) I thought goaltending wasn't an area of need for us and I certainly didn't think Jonathan Bernier was an upgrade on Reimer and it turns out, that was true.

I'm open with my bias and again, I wish him well. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion on players but to say I'm not a reliable judge well, that's pretty obvious. You're not going to find a reliable judge here. You'll find opinions you agree with and opinions you don't.

Fair enough, I thought you meant you literally just disliked him because reasons. Because there are actually people like that. I have to say though, it's not really his fault he was traded here.

 

[airbus220]

As a matter of fact Montoya was projected to be very good and is considered on of the biggest busts of recent history



This could be Bernier too.
Perhaps the way I think of the work projects is different that your concept of the word?

Montoya is a great goalie, especially at his salary 1.1M, he's a good example for a goalie to replace Bernier with.
How many years is Montoya playing NHL now, there are others who should be called draft busts. Busts are those people who draft goalies in the 1st round, wasted picks because drafting goalies are the most difficult to project.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Most of the arguments in this thread have been said over and over for both goalies, but this one is new so I'll bite.

First of all, all 3 of those guys were charged with a crime. So the fact that you've somehow looped Bernier in with them (and Kessel for that matter) is confusing to begin with.

Second and slightly unrelated, you're the first person I've ever seen refer to Slava Voynov and Mike Richards as Vjrdnbdsjshslav and Michael.

Thirdly, where is the smoke? For either player? I'm not going to bother defending Kessel's character because it's not relevant to this thread. But I'd love to know what exactly Bernier has done? Yes, he's on a TV show. I 100% guarantee you that he isn't a creator of the show. He was asked to do it and he's doing, presumably cause it's fun, extra money, and helps further his wife's career. Oh no he likes to have fun, make money and support his wife. The Mandela thing? Stupid slip up on his part, but ultimately harmless. Go to a trivia night at a bar one day, you'll be shocked how much general knowledge we all don't know. The only other thing I can think of is that he plays pretty calmly which some people think means 0 passion. Which is dumb, get seats in the lower bowl behind the net when they're playing the Habs and compare his intensity level with Price's and see how similar they are. They both play a style that by nature should result in few scrambly plays. If it isn't any of the above and you have some other dirt on him I'd love to hear it and some sources. If not, well, then your character argument is kind of bull, not matter how much flowery language you use to phrase it.

Oh, and to answer your original question, I couldn't care less what theyre doing off the ice as long as they're not hurting anybody. As long as they show up to play, why does it matter to me? Everyone seems to think they understand a celebrity cause of the few random sound bites and footage they see, when in reality we know pretty much nothing about them.

Very well said.

 

[MikeBabchuk]

I'd love to see the sources you used to spew this load of crap....

Oh wait, they don't exist

Sources for what exactly? Look at Bernier's instagram, watch his interviews, and watch the Mandela video and you are free to make your own inferences about his off-ice conduct. Or stalk him if you want. That's not my job.

Just like people can look at Phil Kessel buy a hotdog every day and make their own inferences.

 

[MikeBabchuk]

Most of the arguments in this thread have been said over and over for both goalies, but this one is new so I'll bite.

First of all, all 3 of those guys were charged with a crime. So the fact that you've somehow looped Bernier in with them (and Kessel for that matter) is confusing to begin with.

Second and slightly unrelated, you're the first person I've ever seen refer to Slava Voynov and Mike Richards as Vjrdnbdsjshslav and Michael.

Thirdly, where is the smoke? For either player? I'm not going to bother defending Kessel's character because it's not relevant to this thread. But I'd love to know what exactly Bernier has done? Yes, he's on a TV show. I 100% guarantee you that he isn't a creator of the show. He was asked to do it and he's doing, presumably cause it's fun, extra money, and helps further his wife's career. Oh no he likes to have fun, make money and support his wife. The Mandela thing? Stupid slip up on his part, but ultimately harmless. Go to a trivia night at a bar one day, you'll be shocked how much general knowledge we all don't know. The only other thing I can think of is that he plays pretty calmly which some people think means 0 passion. Which is dumb, get seats in the lower bowl behind the net when they're playing the Habs and compare his intensity level with Price's and see how similar they are. They both play a style that by nature should result in few scrambly plays. If it isn't any of the above and you have some other dirt on him I'd love to hear it and some sources. If not, well, then your character argument is kind of bull, not matter how much flowery language you use to phrase it.


Oh, and to answer your original question, I couldn't care less what theyre doing off the ice as long as they're not hurting anybody. As long as they show up to play, why does it matter to me? Everyone seems to think they understand a celebrity cause of the few random sound bites and footage they see, when in reality we know pretty much nothing about them.

You're right, Bernier and Kessel don't compare to guys who have committed violent crimes and I don't intend to insinuate that.

My point was, there are guys around the league who have done reprehensible things and yet some of them still are retained and playing for their teams which to me is surprising. I wouldn't have Semyon Varlamov anywhere near my team.

Now, there is a reach from that extreme to players who have merely questionable off-ice conduct, or for lack of a better way of saying it, "like to party," such as Tyler Seguin. Clearly some teams are more OK with that and others take issue.

Bernier has made it clear on his instagram and by taking part in a television program that he likes the limelight, he likes the additional rich young guy lifestyle beyond hockey. Again, he's entitled to have a life, but the team is also entitled to decide where to draw the line if they believe his off-ice behaviour is interfering with his on-ice play, and when things don't go well, these questions get brought up.

Just look at Seguin for an example of both extremes based on his reputation in Boston when he was not satisfying expectations on the ice compared to him now playing like a superstar in Dallas.

In a sentence: it's a balance between Kessel eating too many hotdogs and scoring too few goals and how that dynamic is interpreted by the team and the media.

 

[Gabriel426]

Just want to jump in here with my two cents.

I think players are no different than us. We can't judge them bc they eat many hotdogs or likes to party. As long as their off ice behaviour does not interfere with their play, we should be fine with it. It is like outside our office. Of course our boss want us to breathe and bleed in our work, but is it wrong to have certain food or have a drink here and there if it doesn't affect our work?

Just bc those players are in the spotlight doesn't mean they can't do normal stuff. Having said that, if they act like they are above the law or like a dick around their fans, they r just being stupid.

 

[MikeBabchuk]

Please do tell us of Bernier's off-ice behavior since you seem to be right in the know about it? Please tell us about this "smoke".

Substantiate these claims or you're full of crap.

Let's not overreact. No, Bernier did not kill my dog.

See above.

 

[MikeBabchuk]

Montoya is a great goalie, especially at his salary 1.1M, he's a good example for a goalie to replace Bernier with.
How many years is Montoya playing NHL now, there are others who should be called draft busts. Busts are those people who draft goalies in the 1st round, wasted picks because drafting goalies are the most difficult to project.

He's hardly great. He's a career backup doing well on a hot team.

 

[canary]

Your justification for this entire rant about his "off-ice behaviour" stems from Bernier not knowing who Nelson Mandela was?

Oh my... Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds?

Half of his instagram is him taking pictures with his son. There is no rampant partying, criminal allegations, questionable conduct, etc. Just take the L buddy.

 

[Mats13]

Sources for what exactly? Look at Bernier's instagram, watch his interviews, and watch the Mandela video and you are free to make your own inferences about his off-ice conduct. Or stalk him if you want. That's not my job.

Just like people can look at Phil Kessel buy a hotdog every day and make their own inferences.

I don't know what's dumber, thinking Bernier has off ice issues (comparing him to a ****ing wife beater) because he has instagram and you don't like his interviews or the fact that you actually bought the Kessel hot dog ********.

You may actually be Steve Simmons... welcome to the ignore list.

 

[CBinTokyo]

This previous half page aside, the last three pages of this thread have had rational, civil and intelligent differences of opinion. This is the kind of stuff I come here to read, but lately has seemed so elusive, especially in a Goaltender thread. Kudos to those involved!

 

[Le Cobra]

Doesn't off-ice conduct speak to their character? I think it's totally relevant when having certain players on your team.

Granted, I am unimpressed with Bernier's off-ice behaviour, although his on-ice performance is capable of trumping that, as is the case with most other players.

Would you take Vyacheslav Voynov on the Leafs? Semyon Varlamov? Michael Richards?

Generally though, I think with guys like Kessel and Bernier, where there's smoke, there's fire. There is something questionable with their conduct and if they are doing poorly, there's really no benefit to keeping them around ultimately.

You are entitled to your opinion. All I can say about their off the ice behaviour is this: I think due to the contrast in personalities between Bernier and Reimer and the way they conduct their post game interviews, an opinion would be formed that Bernier has been less about taking the blame for his mistakes and would seem to want to get the interviews over with. This season however, I think Bernier has improved in these areas. He has admitted to his mistakes and has shown a more cheerful and amicable demeanour during his post game interviews. Reimer has been consistent and has been funnier this season, and the press seems to love interviewing him.

 

[airbus220]

He's hardly great. He's a career backup doing well on a hot team.

Montoya was great with the Isles till Evander Kane run over him, was great with the Jets and now great with the Panthers. Better than Bernier at a fraction of the salary. Sometimes it's hard to beat the starter like Montoya has now in Luongo and there are only few opportunities. Bernier couldn't beat Luongo either.
It's like calling Holland a draft bust because he doesn't play 1st line.