Jonatan Berggren

[Oddbob]

Keep them down , we need higher draft pick

You know rookies being in the lineup even when good, doesn't mean you win more games, right?

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Tonight Kenny mentioned "Raymond being at least 1yr away". That could change, lots of variables & until we hear it from SY it's an insider's rumor/speculation with some merit. Hopefully Raymond & Berggren are FT in DET by mid-season or by TDL at the latest. I think both start in GR & are the 1st call-ups. LT that's probably best for their developement, loads of TOI, roles etc. Let them adjust to NA ice & a more physical league, while gaining strength, muscle mass under our supervision.

 

[golffuul]

Tonight Kenny mentioned "Raymond being at least 1yr away". That could change, lots of variables & until we hear it from SY it's an insider's rumor/speculation with some merit. Hopefully Raymond & Berggren are FT in DET by mid-season or by TDL at the latest. I think both start in GR & are the 1st call-ups. LT that's probably best for their developement, loads of TOI, roles etc. Let them adjust to NA ice & a more physical league, while gaining strength, muscle mass under our supervision.

I agree...I think the amount of time it takes for them to make the adjustment to the NHL game (and ice), will dictate when they arrive in Detroit, full-time. It could be quick, it could take a year and a smidge.

 

[ShanahanMan]

Tonight Kenny mentioned "Raymond being at least 1yr away". That could change, lots of variables & until we hear it from SY it's an insider's rumor/speculation with some merit. Hopefully Raymond & Berggren are FT in DET by mid-season or by TDL at the latest. I think both start in GR & are the 1st call-ups. LT that's probably best for their developement, loads of TOI, roles etc. Let them adjust to NA ice & a more physical league, while gaining strength, muscle mass under our supervision.

And Stuzle, just one pick up from us, just played his first complete season right out of the draft. Just shows how insanely important draft order really is.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

And Stuzle, just one pick up from us, just played his first complete season right out of the draft. Just shows how insanely important draft order really is.

Just because he was one pick above doesn’t mean he’s the better player.

Not saying he will be worse or be better long-term. Just saying draft order isn’t how you measure players.

 

[Mijatovic]

Just because he was one pick above doesn’t mean he’s the better player.

Not saying he will be worse or be better long-term. Just saying draft order isn’t how you measure players.

But being the best player out of the draft so far seems to have helped.

I remember when people were sure Cholowski was going to be as good as Chychryn.

 

[newfy]

Are we even sure Raymond goes to the AHL next year? Good chances he stays in Frolunda.

He said in an interview hes coming to North America. I bet he gets a look in camp and starts in GR with call ups throughout the year. Highly doubt Raymond is in Europe next year

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Honestly, Raymond could light the world on fire right out of the gate in GR next season and I'd still keep him down aside from a 9 game stint.

Frolunda never really gave him the opportunity to be the top player and offensively dominate. He can benefit from a year of that.

 

[Lil Bert]

Berggren is still far too perimeter to make the jump to the NHL next season. That 2:20min IceHockeyGIFs video along with another insider look by the CMoreHockey team all tell the same story. He doesn't push to the middle or look for the shot for himself. Once he starts taking his ice he will make an impact but that could take longer than next year.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Just because he was one pick above doesn’t mean he’s the better player.

Not saying he will be worse or be better long-term. Just saying draft order isn’t how you measure players.

Tim Stutzle being the higher scorer and more impactful player in the NHL means he’s the better player. He also had the better WJC on a far inferior team. Also don’t forget that Stutzle very likely converts to center next year.

Draft order isn’t how you measure performance, true. But there’s also a reason Stutzle was Ottawa’s pick at 3 instead of Raymond.

 

[jaster]

Berggren's only obstacle in adjusting to the NHL, which is an obstacle 99% of players endure, is adjusting to the speed of the NHL game.

Being an undersized perimeter player is who he is, and is not going to change much. It severely limits his ultimate upside and he'll never be the first-line winger I've seen some people say he can be, but contrary to popular belief, his style can and does thrive in the NHL. Likely heavily dependent on PP production. Not every forward needs to be cutting to the net with the puck on his stick. Drawing players to you, finding lanes, and effectively feeding open linemates who do drive the net is just as important. He can live on the outside, the question is simply 'is he good enough to make that work for him in the NHL?'

 

[Eye of Ra]

Berggren is still far too perimeter to make the jump to the NHL next season. That 2:20min IceHockeyGIFs video along with another insider look by the CMoreHockey team all tell the same story. He doesn't push to the middle or look for the shot for himself. Once he starts taking his ice he will make an impact but that could take longer than next year.

well he is super fast and good at avoding, like patrick kane is

 

[odin1981]

Sending Berggren back to Sweden would be a major mistake at his age and given what he just did in Sweden
He'll be 21. Time to play in North America.

Raymond is trickier. I think he might benefit from another year in Sweden, but Frolunda's roll-four approach doesn't fit the Wings' needs. I'd rather he play somewhere we gets to play in a take-charge role.
Maybe that place isn't Grand Rapids. Maybe it is. But even if it isn't, at least we know he's adapting to the North American rink/style.

Besides, no Raymond in Frolunda opens important playing time for Soderblom and Niederbach.

Talk to Rogle about picking him up.

 

[lilidk]

Honestly, Raymond could light the world on fire right out of the gate in GR next season and I'd still keep him down aside from a 9 game stint.

Frolunda never really gave him the opportunity to be the top player and offensively dominate. He can benefit from a year of that.

Not true, Raymond was second line, he got plenty P/P also

 

[lilidk]

Berggren's only obstacle in adjusting to the NHL, which is an obstacle 99% of players endure, is adjusting to the speed of the NHL game.

Being an undersized perimeter player is who he is, and is not going to change much. It severely limits his ultimate upside and he'll never be the first-line winger I've seen some people say he can be, but contrary to popular belief, his style can and does thrive in the NHL. Likely heavily dependent on PP production. Not every forward needs to be cutting to the net with the puck on his stick. Drawing players to you, finding lanes, and effectively feeding open linemates who do drive the net is just as important. He can live on the outside, the question is simply 'is he good enough to make that work for him in the NHL?'

What do you mean NHL speed, does he need to learn how to slow down?
Last perimeter player we had was Nyquist, I kinda miss him , his skills

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Not true, Raymond was second line, he got plenty P/P also

Curious how you think Raymond being a 2nd line guy disproves my statement that he didn't get an opportunity to be the top player and offensively dominate.

You literally just validated it.

 

[lilidk]

Curious how you think Raymond being a 2nd line guy disproves my statement that he didn't get an opportunity to be the top player and offensively dominate.

You literally just validated it.

Frolunda has 2 equal lines and Raymond was on one of them. If you're talking about opportunities Soderblom and Niederbach did not get it , not until end of the season when Raymond went down.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Frolunda has 2 equal lines and Raymond was on one of them. If you're talking about opportunities Soderblom and Niederbach did not get it , not until end of the season when Raymond went down.

Frolunda has four equal lines. That's the problem.

 

[ricky0034]

Frolunda has four equal lines. That's the problem.

yeah

Raymond played 14 minutes a night:

Statistik spelare 2020/2021 - SHL.se

 

[jaster]

What do you mean NHL speed, does he need to learn how to slow down?
Last perimeter player we had was Nyquist, I kinda miss him , his skills

He's never played in a hockey game that moves as fast as the NHL. Guys close on you faster, take away time and space faster, read plays faster. Top tier foot speed can help mitigate that new reality slightly, but while Berggren is fast, he's not Pavel Bure fast. There will be an adjustment period.

I almost mentioned Nyquist. I liked Gus a lot. He was a perimeter player, but better than Berggren has been at picking his spots for shooting opportunities and for getting to the net on occasion imo. That's where Berggren could improve his game somewhat, but he'll always be primarily an outside guy. I see his ceiling as having pretty similar value to Nyquist. Hopefully he gets there.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Berggren's only obstacle in adjusting to the NHL, which is an obstacle 99% of players endure, is adjusting to the speed of the NHL game.

Being an undersized perimeter player is who he is, and is not going to change much. It severely limits his ultimate upside and he'll never be the first-line winger I've seen some people say he can be, but contrary to popular belief, his style can and does thrive in the NHL. Likely heavily dependent on PP production. Not every forward needs to be cutting to the net with the puck on his stick. Drawing players to you, finding lanes, and effectively feeding open linemates who do drive the net is just as important. He can live on the outside, the question is simply 'is he good enough to make that work for him in the NHL?'

The only way to find out is putting him with Vrana or another speedy winger who goes to the net. He worked incredibly well in that kind of setup in Skelleftea, and his teammates knew that when Berggren had the puck they had better start skating to the net.

 

[Henkka]

The only way to find out is putting him with Vrana or another speedy winger who goes to the net. He worked incredibly well in that kind of setup in Skelleftea, and his teammates knew that when Berggren had the puck they had better start skating to the net.

Rasmussen could be fitting future linemate. He will to go net. Berggren will deliver the puck. Söderblom another good fit.

 

[Konnan511]

Why he has nothing to prove in Frolunda anymore? Seriously doubt Yzerman would've given him his ELC contract if he wasn't going to play in either Detroit or GR this season.

Note: This isn't necessarily directed at you.

I feel like I am living in Looney Tunes land. Raymond is no where ready enough for North America and I have no idea why people are slotting him into the Wing's roster next year. Berggeren who is bigger and had a dominating season, people have him starting in Grand Rapids and hopefully making the Wing's at some point later in the season, but Raymond as possibly starting the season with the Wing's after he demonstrated he needs to improve his conditioning. Raymond was oft injured and even had his ice time diminished throughout the season periodically. Lucas Raymond will be an amazing player for us, but I do not see what so many see in him currently, which is an NHL ready player at this moment. I need to see a full SHL season out of him before he is ready to come over here.

 

[newfy]

Note: This isn't necessarily directed at you.

I feel like I am living in Looney Tunes land. Raymond is no where ready enough for North America and I have no idea why people are slotting him into the Wing's roster next year. Berggeren who is bigger and had a dominating season, people have him starting in Grand Rapids and hopefully making the Wing's at some point later in the season, but Raymond as possibly starting the season with the Wing's after he demonstrated he needs to improve his conditioning. Raymond was oft injured and even had his ice time diminished throughout the season periodically. Lucas Raymond will be an amazing player for us, but I do not see what so many see in him currently, which is an NHL ready player at this moment. I need to see a full SHL season out of him before he is ready to come over here.

Because you are living in looney tunes land. Whether hes ready for the NHL is one discussion, not ready for North America though? Hes played pro hockey against men for 3 years and was a 4th overall pick for a reason. Hes absolutely ready to play in Grand Rapids.

Plenty of guys picked after him this year from junior went to the AHL and fit in just fine, a lot of them were fairly dominant players. Raymond with an extra off season to prepare can definitely go to Grand Rapids and be a good player

 

[Retire91]

Really loving this news going to be exciting to watch things in GR develop. We are starting to get close to what we have been waiting about 10 years for. Legit young talent making up multiple lines.