Jonatan Berggren

[Winger98]

Because you are living in looney tunes land. Whether hes ready for the NHL is one discussion, not ready for North America though? Hes played pro hockey against men for 3 years and was a 4th overall pick for a reason. Hes absolutely ready to play in Grand Rapids.

Plenty of guys picked after him this year from junior went to the AHL and fit in just fine, a lot of them were fairly dominant players. Raymond with an extra off season to prepare can definitely go to Grand Rapids and be a good player

I wonder if the NHL wouldn't be better for Raymond because there is more structure and, arguably, a less physical style. I've seen him listed at 5'11'' 183lbs, it's not like he's slightly built. I don't think it would be crazy to see both Bergrren and Raymond start the year in Detroit.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Because you are living in looney tunes land. Whether hes ready for the NHL is one discussion, not ready for North America though? Hes played pro hockey against men for 3 years and was a 4th overall pick for a reason. Hes absolutely ready to play in Grand Rapids.

Plenty of guys picked after him this year from junior went to the AHL and fit in just fine, a lot of them were fairly dominant players. Raymond with an extra off season to prepare can definitely go to Grand Rapids and be a good player

I'm not worried about Raymond's skill level in Grand Rapids. I'm worried about the guy still looking like he weighs 160 soaking wet in his gear.

I'm also worried about the dump-and-don't-chase style of Grand Rapids. Admittedly, I only watched a couple of games this year, but last season watching Grand Rapids was painful. I really hope they evolve their game as more skill is added to the team with our prospects.

 

[newfy]

I wonder if the NHL wouldn't be better for Raymond because there is more structure and, arguably, a less physical style. I've seen him listed at 5'11'' 183lbs, it's not like he's slightly built. I don't think it would be crazy to see both Bergrren and Raymond start the year in Detroit.

Its possible. I would see how he looks in camp and make a decision from there. Coming to North America gives the option of either place. If the NHL is still a little fast for him he can go to Grand Rapids, unlike in Sweden where if Frolunda decides to play him 14 mins a game again, hes stuck.

But its not like small, skilled guys can hack it in the AHL. Nylander hopped over and was dominant pretty quick. Raymond is a much stronger player on his feet/overall than someone like Hirose who is a really good player down there as well

I'm not worried about Raymond's skill level in Grand Rapids. I'm worried about the guy still looking like he weighs 160 soaking wet in his gear.

I'm also worried about the dump-and-don't-chase style of Grand Rapids. Admittedly, I only watched a couple of games this year, but last season watching Grand Rapids was painful. I really hope they evolve their game as more skill is added to the team with our prospects.

The Griffins play that style of hockey because of who they have. This gets repeated on here all the time and its frustrating to hear, because like you said, its usually people who dont watch the Griffins play. I've been watching them since redwingslive was still a thing. The Griffins have a bunch of players who dont have the skill set to play a puck possession game and the few who do, dont dump and chase. Hirose and Barber arent out there chasing around pucks in the corners, but almost everyone else is because they dont have the talent to do it a different way. Ben Simon isnt saying f*** it, I'm old school, lets dump and chase. Hes working with what he has. Who is expected to carry the puck over with possession besides Hirose or Barber down there? Elson, Spezia, MLeod, Pearson etc etc arent possession players

People love to rag on Blashill for having a dump and chase system in the NHL, but when he was coaching a calder cup championship team down in Grand Rapids, everyone on this board sucked him off for his quick transition, puck possession system. I'm not worried about that with Simon because the players with talent are allowed to play to their strength.... the dump and chase thing is just always evident in the AHL because guys down there arent as skilled.

I have no reason to believe Raymond wont be allowed to play on a talented line like Hirose/Veleno or Berggren or Barber and play a high skill, possession style game if hes there next season

 

[jaster]

The only way to find out is putting him with Vrana or another speedy winger who goes to the net. He worked incredibly well in that kind of setup in Skelleftea, and his teammates knew that when Berggren had the puck they had better start skating to the net.

Yep. He's the type of complementary player who needs the right linemates in order to be doing the complementing. I can see him working with Vrana... Zadina... Fabbri. Hell, maybe even Erne on a sneaky good 3rd-line kinda setup.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Yep. He's the type of complementary player who needs the right linemates in order to be doing the complementing. I can see him working with Vrana... Zadina... Fabbri. Hell, maybe even Erne on a sneaky good 3rd-line kinda setup.

This means Blashill will pair him with LGD to set him up for some epic backhand shots.

 

[lilidk]

My expectations is Bergreen going to start for GR, when he gets recall , Bergreen- Glendening- Svechnikov.
My only concern about Bergreen is how his defensive game will go.

 

[lilidk]

If Yzerman will keep Veleno in GR ,
Raymond - Veleno- Bergreen

 

[steafo]

If Yzerman will keep Veleno in GR ,
Raymond - Veleno- Bergreen

I hope what we saw out of Veleno's last 5 games in Detroit is enough to get him on the roster this fall full time. I think he's shown enough chops to be at least capable enough to replace what we had this year. We will see during training camp and preseason but I'm hoping he and Rasmussen stick and they stick because they force the Coaches and Managements hand.

With that being said, that would be a potentially really fun line to see in Grand Rapids. Their skillsets tend to complement eachother too. Raymond can shoot and be a playmaker, Berggren can skate with the puck and open things up, and Veleno I see as a jack of all trades type player with a focus on being the defensively responsible one on the line. From what I've seen of Raymond, Veleno can even open it up offensively a bit because Raymond appears to be a puck hound type winger also.

 

[Richard Gibson]

Jonatan Berggren sets up Jesper Fröden for a goal against Russia in Carlson Hockey Games, a last rehearsal and chance for players to win roster spots ahead of the World Championships.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Note: This isn't necessarily directed at you.

I feel like I am living in Looney Tunes land. Raymond is no where ready enough for North America and I have no idea why people are slotting him into the Wing's roster next year. Berggeren who is bigger and had a dominating season, people have him starting in Grand Rapids and hopefully making the Wing's at some point later in the season, but Raymond as possibly starting the season with the Wing's after he demonstrated he needs to improve his conditioning. Raymond was oft injured and even had his ice time diminished throughout the season periodically. Lucas Raymond will be an amazing player for us, but I do not see what so many see in him currently, which is an NHL ready player at this moment. I need to see a full SHL season out of him before he is ready to come over here.

Oft injured? Not really. He had one relatively major injury this year related to an old injury. His ice time was contingent on Frolunda's play as a team. He was limited at 5 on 5 and he had a role on the powerplay, not the PK. If Frolunda drew penalties, Raymond's ice time went up. If they took a bunch of penalties, his ice time went down.

He was bigger, stronger, and faster than his draft year, but he absolutely does need some more time to develop physically before he'll be able to be the best version of himself. That being said, he is easily ready for the AHL and will probably be the best player on the Griffins from the moment he arrives.