John Vanbiesbrouck vs Mike Richter

[Doctor No]

Ok.

And? He apologized and we move on.

He was about as great an athlete as I've met and he really went out of his way to give my son (aspiring goalie) some goaltending tips, pointers, and words of encouragement. I will never forget that

Sorry, you asked what we're talking about, and I told you. I thought you were genuinely interested.

I'm a fan of Vanbiesbrouck's. And you asked what was being discussed.

 

[hacksaw7]

Sorry, you asked what we're talking about, and I told you. I thought you were genuinely interested.

I'm a fan of Vanbiesbrouck's. And you asked what was being discussed.

Understood.

I immediately started thinking of the Mactavish incident or what happened with the Caps around 1990 (not to go into details) and began thinking...$hit did Beezer have one of these type of moments and I just forgot?

 

[The Panther]

I just wanted to point out that calling a 19-year-old a highly offensive racial slur -- in front of his teammates, no less -- does kind of make you a bad person.

It doesn't mean Beezer isn't a good guy in lots of other ways. I'm sure he is. But our actions have consequences. Imagine if a white boss at a big company shouted the same racial slur at a 19-year-old woman. You'd be saying he's "not a bad person"? It's all debatable and we can each have our own opinion, but, for me, what he said does make him a bad person.

 

[The Panther]

Perhaps I should be more fair to Beezer, so I'll just add: He did (as reported several years ago) apologize for his words and he expressed deep regret. I respect that, and of course everyone deserves a second chance.

But we are defined by what we do and how we treat people. And so it should be.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

racist bullying aside, this is my vibe on this comp

 

[mrhockey193195]

Perhaps I should be more fair to Beezer, so I'll just add: He did (as reported several years ago) apologize for his words and he expressed deep regret. I respect that, and of course everyone deserves a second chance.

But we are defined by what we do and how we treat people. And so it should be.

If I'm not mistaken, by Daley's account he has never apologized to Daley directly or reached out to him. And if I'm not mistaken, one of John's few comments on the issue was to the effect of "well he could reach out to me...".

Everyone deserves a second chance, but there hasn't been much of an indication that Beezer has made the effort to learn & change. (Granted, just because it's not public doesn't mean it hasn't happened, but I would think that the literal first step of any reconciliation would be to speak to Daley directly, which Trevor says still has not happened...)

 

[Sanf]

why did the rangers keep richter over beezer? a question i asked myself at the time. but then i also wondered why the canucks didn't keep beezer and expose kay whitmore..

I know I´m quoting ten year old post and you probably already know this. But they had to expose both. The thing that I even realized just recently that without having a good bait they could have lost Dave Babych. But team could only lose goalie or Dman.

I have seen speculation that if in the case someone would have selected Babych the future consideration of that Vanbiesbrouck trade could have been Whitmore. And Canucks would have gone with VBK and McLean. And keep Lidster instead in defence.

 

[Sanf]

I have always selected Vanbiesbrouck over Richter. But it is fair to point that after sharing 90-91 regular season (playing in every other game almost entire season) Richter became the one that was considered number 1. 91 Canada Cup he was the starting goalie. He probably would have played more games than VBK also in 91-92, but Richter had contract dispute that made him miss few games early and missed 12 games in the middle of season. Atleast papers regarded him a number one. And ofcourse in 93 they traded VBK.

It would have been interesting to see how things would have been played out in 96 World Cup. VBK came from big playoffs. But had shoulder surgery in August which made him miss the tournament.

 

[Spirit of 67]

Richter.
Which is why they kept him.

 

[hacksaw7]

I just wanted to point out that calling a 19-year-old a highly offensive racial slur -- in front of his teammates, no less -- does kind of make you a bad person.

It doesn't mean Beezer isn't a good guy in lots of other ways. I'm sure he is. But our actions have consequences. Imagine if a white boss at a big company shouted the same racial slur at a 19-year-old woman. You'd be saying he's "not a bad person"? It's all debatable and we can each have our own opinion, but, for me, what he said does make him a bad person.

People are complicated folks. If that makes Beezer a bad person for life...then what is 90% of the earth bad people. Damn near everyone has said something they shouldn't and they regret it.

You can say he had a bad moment. But not that he's a bad person. It's not like he's led a life being horrible to others. Many others have

 

[ResilientBeast]

People are complicated folks. If that makes Beezer a bad person for life...then what is 90% of the earth bad people. Damn near everyone has said something they shouldn't and they regret it.

You can say he had a bad moment. But not that he's a bad person. It's not like he's led a life being horrible to others. Many others have

This really shouldn't be a hill you're willing to die on

 

[hacksaw7]

This really shouldn't be a hill you're willing to die on

It's not anything to die on. Beezer is a great guy.

 

[ResilientBeast]

It's not anything to die on. Beezer is a great guy.

Great guys don't get angry enough to call someone something so vile

 

[hacksaw7]

Great guys don't get angry enough to call someone something so vile

Believe me...it happens. I don't know what standards and expectations you have for people but they're yours and that's fine. I wont ask you to change them

 

[Voight]

Quite easily Beezer. Not sure how you could go with Richter here.

 

[Doctor No]

Richter.
Which is why they kept him.

Teams make goaltending decisions for a variety of valid reasons other than "whose career will be better?" all the time, including contract status and age of the player (both of which factored into this equation for the Rangers).

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Quite easily Beezer. Not sure how you could go with Richter here.

Not sure how you have this a "quite easily" in either direction.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

I know I´m quoting ten year old post and you probably already know this. But they had to expose both. The thing that I even realized just recently that without having a good bait they could have lost Dave Babych. But team could only lose goalie or Dman.

I have seen speculation that if in the case someone would have selected Babych the future consideration of that Vanbiesbrouck trade could have been Whitmore. And Canucks would have gone with VBK and McLean. And keep Lidster instead in defence.

this is amazing, thank you. i never knew any of this. my whole life i'd heard that it was because they really really wanted to retain whitmore as their backup.

tbh, i never in a million years understood why they'd go to such lengths, dependable as he was back there.

 

[Sanf]

this is amazing, thank you. i never knew any of this. my whole life i'd heard that it was because they really really wanted to retain whitmore as their backup.

tbh, i never in a million years understood why they'd go to such lengths, dependable as he was back there.

It is also truth that they wanted to keep Whitmore as backup, but that trade had more dimensions.

 

[Voight]

Not sure how you have this a "quite easily" in either direction.

Beezer has a Vezina record of 1,2,4,5,6,6,6,7,7 vs Richters 3,5,6,7,8.

AST voting also favours him with 1,2,4,8,9,9,10 vs 4,5,7,8.

Playoff stats are pretty even, Beezer has a higher SV% but not by much

 

[vikash1987]

Beezer went through an awful lot in his final season with the Rangers, both on and off the ice. It was really a sad situation—anyone with a heart would’ve felt for what the guy went through. In retrospect, I’m not sure if this played a role in the Rangers’ decision, but the change of scenery certainly worked out for both him and the Rangers.

 

[buffalowing88]

Beezer said some pretty awful things. Beezer is also the guy I'd choose if I'm picking between the two. They're mutually exclusive sentiments.

 

[Bryce Newman]

I like Beezer but the Rangers probably don't win the 94 Cup with him replacing Richter. People don't realize how huge Richter was vs. the Devils and Canucks that postseason. However, as another poster alluded to, perhaps Beezer is a better fit on a more defensive minded team. Beezer was always the type of goalie who might not face one shot for 10 minutes straight and still be ready to go if a flurry of shots came his way afterwards. In that sense he was a great fit for a team like the 96 Panthers where he shined. I think Richter was more the type of goalie who performed better under pressure situations and facing tons of shots consistently.

As far as the other stuff with Beezer goes, we've all said or thought things that have hurt people equally as bad so as long as he apologized I'm good with it. People tend to be very unforgiving towards others yet when they themselves mess up, they want understanding and forgiveness. If you want something for yourself you have to be willing to give it to others as well. According to my beliefs, none of us are "good people" so I always laugh a bit when people use that term. We all mess up. The key is to try and learn and be better after we do.