John Vanbiesbrouck vs Mike Richter

Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by Stephen, Mar 4, 2011.

View Users: View Users
  1. Stephen

    Stephen Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2002
    Messages:
    45,496
    Likes Received:
    2,131
    Trophy Points:
    231
    Home Page:
    [​IMG]

    Two small American goalies that came up with the Rangers in the 80s and early 90s, Vanbiesbrouck was three years older and had won a Vezina in 1986, was eventually traded to Vancouver in the 1993 offseason and claimed by the Panthers in the expansion draft where he went on to have some great years on an expansion team, going to the finals in 1996 and playing as a workhorse for many years in Florida. Richter won a Stanley Cup and World Cup in 1994 and 1996.

    Who was the better of the two? Why did the Rangers keep Richter over Vanbiesbrouck when Vanbiesbrouck was the better of the two in 1993? Could the Rangers have won in 1994 if they kept Beezer instead of Richter?
     
  2. canucks4ever

    canucks4ever Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2008
    Messages:
    3,869
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    101
    Beezer had the superstar peak, so he gets my vote.
     
  3. WheatiesHockey

    WheatiesHockey Registered User

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2006
    Messages:
    585
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Well if you are a Ranger fan, it was great to have that kind of strength in net.
    Johnny V Good was a great technical goalie. Mikey was more acrobatic and fun to watch. Richter was plagued by injuries more than Johnny.
     
  4. connellc

    connellc Registered User

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2010
    Messages:
    248
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    34
    Richter has a cup and a world cup and was picked over the beezer in international tournaments throughout both of their careers. I tend to think that Richter was the better goalie, but not by that much.
     
  5. skroob**

    skroob** Guest

    Richter was most likely the guy to get the Conn Smythe behind Leetch as well.
     
  6. Stephen

    Stephen Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2002
    Messages:
    45,496
    Likes Received:
    2,131
    Trophy Points:
    231
    Home Page:
    But at the time in 1993 what were the Rangers going by in choosing Richter over Beezer? Seemed like he wasn't all that proven, he was already 26 at the time and Vanbiesbrouck had won a Vezina and was only 29... Also, Beezer had the better record and was the 1A for the season in 1992-1993.
     
  7. mrhockey193195

    mrhockey193195 Registered User

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2006
    Messages:
    5,344
    Likes Received:
    244
    Trophy Points:
    111
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    As a Richter-idolizer, I always feel very upset that injuries and crappy Rangers teams in the late 90s took away from what could have been an extraordinary legacy.
     
  8. vadim sharifijanov

    vadim sharifijanov ugh

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2007
    Messages:
    17,044
    Likes Received:
    1,468
    Trophy Points:
    169
    Home Page:
    why did the rangers keep richter over beezer? a question i asked myself at the time. but then i also wondered why the canucks didn't keep beezer and expose kay whitmore.

    but if i had to speculate, i'd say it's because of age, or the perception of age.

    at the time, there was a new wave of goalies in the league: belfour, richter, cujo, were the cream of that crop, tugnutt, essensa, and cheveldae looked like they might become stars, and kidd and potvin were very highly touted. keep in mind, ridiculous as it seems in retrospect, that people were whispering during the '93 season that roy might be done, even though he was basically the same age as all of those other guys except kidd and potvin.

    there was the perception that the 80s guys were dinosaurs and on their way out. fuhr and hextall lost some years, peeters and liut were gone, to a lesser degree you'd say vernon and moog were on the way down. and barrasso always seemed in the early 90s to have the same kind of profile that osgood later did.

    i don't know why this was. maybe because other than fuhr none of the goalies of the late 70s/80s had long careers. you'd have a four year prime and then you were replaced . maybe they just thought beezer's time was shortly coming.
     
  9. Steve Kournianos

    Steve Kournianos @thedraftanalyst

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2005
    Messages:
    19,541
    Likes Received:
    773
    Trophy Points:
    169
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    United States of America
    Home Page:


    VBK was a fan favorite over Richter but showed signs of getting old after terrible performances in the 1992 playoffs and the 1993 season.

    VBK was also vastly outplayed by the Younger Richter in 1990 and 1991, and Richter was quickly becoming a crowd favorite. he was also much more athletic than VBK and had a stronger work ethic.

    1993 was an abberation. The Rangers stunk from the get-go. Vanbiesbrouck was statistically better in 1993 but was directly responsible for some horrible losses at MSG against bottom feeders which sealed the team's playoff chances.

    IIRC it was a loss to Hartford that sealed his fate.

    Plus, Smith knew the Isles were going to expose Healy in the expansion draft, so he decided it was Richter's show with a playoff tested Healy (fresh off his CF run) as a suitable backup.


    For four seasons, neither VBK or Richter could get a grip on the starting job. Also, both Messier and Leetch endorsed Richter, and it was the right choice.


    And no, i dont think beezer would have won the Cup in 1994. He was better suited for a defensive and methodical system, and the 1994 Rangers were run and gun and gave up a lot of chances.

    If you look at the 1994 run, Richter made acrobatic save after acrobatic save.
     
  10. tp71

    tp71 Enjoy every sandwich

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2009
    Messages:
    9,866
    Likes Received:
    92
    Trophy Points:
    71
    Occupation:
    Unrestricted Free Agent
    Location:
    London
    How interesting would it have been in Beezer had stayed with Vancouver instead of going to Florida and we had a Beezer vs Richter cup final. Would have been quite the story.
     
  11. TasteofFlames

    TasteofFlames Registered User

    Joined:
    May 29, 2008
    Messages:
    2,871
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Athens, GA
    From what I understand, Beezer was considered the better goalie on a day-to-day basis, but Richter built himself a reputation as a big game goalie. This helps explain Richter's selection in international competition of Beezer.
     
  12. Chumley

    Chumley Registered User

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2010
    Messages:
    133
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Victoria, B.C.
    We had Kirk MacLean.
     
  13. begbeee

    begbeee Registered User

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2009
    Messages:
    4,126
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Slovakia
  14. tony d

    tony d Registered User Sponsor

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2007
    Messages:
    67,900
    Likes Received:
    1,605
    Trophy Points:
    169
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Office Worker
    Location:
    Behind A Tree
    Always liked both goalies. While Richter has a Cup I still think I'd take Vanbiesbrouck. What he did in net for that Florida team in the 1996 playoffs was amazing.
     
  15. Big Phil

    Big Phil Registered User

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2003
    Messages:
    26,233
    Likes Received:
    445
    Trophy Points:
    229
    I don't think Beezer ever played as well as Richter in the 1994 playoffs or the 1996 World Cup. However, Beezer seemed to be more consistent. Richter was streaky, and when he was good he was GOOD, but like Claude Lemieux he also had those down moments where he looked ordinary. Post 1997 he didn't do a whole lot to add to his legacy. He never made the playoffs, he was bad in the 1998 Olympics, he was pretty good but in a losing cause in the 2002 Olympics and he never had a winning season after 1997.

    Beezer was certainly more steady and has the better Vezina voting for his career. But other than 1996 he had a terrible reputation as not being a playoff goalie. Something I tend to agree with, it is his downfall.

    Tough pick I'd say, both had their faults
     
  16. Brooklanders*

    Brooklanders* Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2012
    Messages:
    6,818
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I will go in reverse. The Rangers decided to keep Richter because he was younger and had untapped potential. BEEZER and Richter were an effective combo with the NYR. The RAngers could have kept both but at that time unlike today the NHL had defined starters and backups. Everyone knew that Beezer would play well with the Panthers as he did with the Rangers. Beezer would have helped the Rangers win the cup but their is no denying that Richter was fantastic that year. Mike is the better goalie
     
  17. Brooklanders*

    Brooklanders* Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2012
    Messages:
    6,818
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    This was the big thing at the time. Why did they get BEEZER when we have Maclean. Why would the Canucks aquire him when the expansion draft is next year. AT the time no one knew for sure what the rules would be. The ISles also lost a goalie to that same expansion draft I believe if my memory is correct, Fitzpatrick
     
  18. seventieslord

    seventieslord Student Of The Game

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2006
    Messages:
    31,904
    Likes Received:
    657
    Trophy Points:
    169
    Location:
    Regina, SK
    Beezer in every imaginable way.
     
  19. vadim sharifijanov

    vadim sharifijanov ugh

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2007
    Messages:
    17,044
    Likes Received:
    1,468
    Trophy Points:
    169
    Home Page:
    everyone knew beezer was going to be the first pick in the expansion draft. he was basically like a pending UFA that you weren't going to re-sign. in the absence of any team that wanted to trade for him, the rangers offered him to teams that wanted to keep their backup.

    the relevant rules of the expansion draft were that 1. a team could only protect one goalie, and 2. a team could only lose one goalie. so once florida took vanbiesbrouck from vancouver, neither they nor anaheim could also claim whitmore, who was a highly regarded back-up at the time and likely would have been picked.

    but yeah, you better believe there were a lot of fans in vancouver at the time going, "let's protect beezer and expose mclean instead." less than 12 months later, no one would ever suggest such a thing ever again. i'm pretty sure there were unwritten strings attached to the deal that made vancouver have to expose beezer, like how the neither the extra first round pick vancouver got in the '99 draft had to be used on a sedin, they couldn't take brendl or stefan.
     
  20. Edge

    Edge Kris King's Ghost

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2002
    Messages:
    21,015
    Likes Received:
    8,231
    Trophy Points:
    231
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Amish Paradise
    In some ways, their careers are almost opposites.

    Beezer was a very good, but probably not elite goalie until the age of 30. From there, he went to defensive minded teams and did very well for himself as a top goalie.

    Richter was among the top goalies earleir in his career, but his teams essentially sucked after the age of 30.

    IMO, Richter was slightly better. Beezer played longer and tended to play on better teams later in his career, but the argument comes down to who was given the nods when they were both at their peaks. When I look at it from that perspective, Ricther won a cup, an all-star MVP and was the starting goalie for Team USA, all over Beezer.
     
  21. CharlestownChiefsESC

    CharlestownChiefsESC Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2008
    Messages:
    316
    Likes Received:
    27
    Trophy Points:
    81
    Location:
    Laurence Harbor NJ
    Ive said it before. Beezer may have been a better goalie, but when you were in a big game and needed goaltending to win it Richter was your guy
     
  22. Ed Wood

    Ed Wood Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    2,539
    Likes Received:
    113
    Trophy Points:
    81
    Location:
    Ottawa
    This sums it up. Richter was also the better person.
     
  23. Rhiessan71

    Rhiessan71 Just a Fool

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2003
    Messages:
    11,621
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    161
    Location:
    Guelph, Ont
    Home Page:
    That's the way I saw it too.
    Breezer was very consistent, he never really strayed from a certain level of play one way or the other. He usually didn't lose you many games and kept you in most but he didn't "steal" that many games either.
    Ritcher on the other hand could suck balls for a couple of games and then be completely lights out for five games. He had the capacity to "steal" games for you.

    It's a very similar situation to my all-star and Junior days. The goalie I shared duties with was better technically and was more consistent than I was but I had a level I could go to that he couldn't.
    During the regular season I saw more of the bench than he did but come playoff time, playing against a team that out classed us or if we went to a tournament, I got a lot more of the ice time and it pissed him off to no end heh.
     
  24. Edge

    Edge Kris King's Ghost

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2002
    Messages:
    21,015
    Likes Received:
    8,231
    Trophy Points:
    231
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Amish Paradise
    Both lost a lot of time/wins to the rotating goalie tandem they played in for years.

    I always wondered what Richter could've done if he didn't play on one of the last teams to attemplt to play free wheeling hockey in the 90s.
     
  25. BigGoalBrad

    BigGoalBrad Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2012
    Messages:
    6,097
    Likes Received:
    409
    Trophy Points:
    94
    93 Rangers team is probably the most talented team ever that flat out SUCKED. (No clue why they were so awful I was still young but its mind boggling they had that bad a year between 92 and 94 teams which were legendary.) So that works against Beezer.

    I thought Van Beezbrook was always better and was unsure why Richter was chosen over him for USA. I think the 94 Cup win is why though. So overall Van Beisbrook is the better goalie but Richters cup in 94 somehow gives him the nod for the better career because it resulted in him being the goalie for team USA. But late 90s Van Beisbrook on Florida was better than Richter on the Rangers.
     

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "358c248ada348a047a4b9bb27a146148"