John Tavares

[warrior60]

JT needs Help ?!

Superstars are supposed to make players around him better not the other way around. When is the last time we saw JT dominate/take over a game ??

Unfortunately.. this season for whatever reason, He is just average. His all around play has been poor. Turnover, lack of back checking, His shots seem weak. The team is doing great, but for a good playoff run they need JT to wake up..Hopefully he turns it around.

Agree with you 100%, just not the JT we have seen in the past.

 

[Pure Slaughter Value]

Maybe he's just one of those players like Czaerkawski that's really good on a bad team but just average on a good team?

Guy's just snakebit and thinking too much. He'll be fine. The fact that we're winning with him being about as bad as he can be (which really is just average) is fine. When he snaps out of it, look out.

 

[2ndGenIslander]

Maybe he's just one of those players like Czaerkawski that's really good on a bad team but just average on a good team?

Guy's just snakebit and thinking too much. He'll be fine. The fact that we're winning with him being about as bad as he can be (which really is just average) is fine. When he snaps out of it, look out.

Yea this. If we were losing and he was playing like crap it would be a problem. He'll obviously snap out of it soon. If anything, this is a good sign that were not a one dimensional team who needs their best player in top form to win games

 

[Axel574]

Tonight's the night... JT with have three points by 7pm. Book it.

 

[A Pointed Stick]

JT needs Help ?!

Superstars are supposed to make players around him better not the other way around. When is the last time we saw JT dominate/take over a game ??

Unfortunately.. this season for whatever reason, He is just average. His all around play has been poor. Turnover, lack of back checking, His shots seem weak. The team is doing great, but for a good playoff run they need JT to wake up..Hopefully he turns it around.

I disagree. Some guys do what you say, like Crosby, Bossy, Lindros, etc. Others do not. Tavares needs decent support from the other 4 skaters. When he has his slumps the first thing you notice is a lack of team play from him, he keeps the puck and gets stripped of it, and stops playing efficiently and it wears him out. He also gets stuck on the ice too long for the same reasons trying to be superman which not only turns him into a giant minus for that shift but it also burns him out for the next shift, turning him into more of a game long minus because the problem feeds itself. By the end of the game you have the hilariously bad effort he showed in OT.

You can fix this by providing him with linemates who don't play by themselves as well , who are strong on the puck, in traffic, with an edge, are good defensively, and who are actual 1st line talent. There may be 1 player on this team that meets all those requirements, but there certainly isn't a second. I am not convinced there is even one that fits all those criteria. The answer is to bring that guy in. Iginla would have been perfect particularly since Tavares would have had to given some amount of respect to him. Someone needs to remind him he isn't superman during the game, possibly while they are both on the ice. Obviously the coaching staff does not possess that ability as they can't even reign in his sometimes out of control shift lengths.

One last observation, two weeks ago JT's +/- was slowly moving towards double digits on the plus side, which was a good sign. Today he is at a -1. Generally speaking he has been a minus or about even meaning at ES for every goal his line gets they give one up, or you could say our 1st line is a net break even. That is not what a healthy first line provides. You can trace the struggles of the first line to the lack of good support for JT, to Okposo who is a giant defensive hole when on that unit, but obviously you have to trace it to Tavares more than anyone as he is the first line no matter who he plays with. If Snow really wants to make the most out of his scoring ability it is a necessity to pack some proven first line talent around him that makes up for his lack of defense, and players who meet whatever Tavares deems real 1st line talent so he will stop going into this tunnel vision superman mode where he doesn't even acknowledge the presence of his wings.

Or you let continue what we see going on in his slumps which is simply bad hockey.

 

[Renbarg]

Jt is one of the worst defensive centers in the league. I've been beating that drum for so long but it is making me a bit angry recently. That no goal call in the last minute was all jt getting caught on the breakout. Just watch jt in OT to see how lazy he actually is when our team doesn't have possesion.

 

[wingnutks]

I dont even know what to do with this guy. Not a single shot on goal against a horrible team.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

Now that the Isles have Stamkos, should they trade Tavares?

 

[Spybot]

Now that the Isles have Stamkos, should they trade Tavares?

I'd wait for confirmation we're getting Matthews. Considering where the team is clearly heading after tonight.

 

[BillD]

I dont even know what to do with this guy. Not a single shot on goal against a horrible team.

JT is a brilliant offensive player. What he can be and what he is in the other two zones is debatable, but what isn't debatable is that he is less than average in those zones, maybe actually quite bad at times. That is what we have been watching.
He must be paired with a defensive linemate such as the attempt with Kulemin. Maybe both wings have to be very good in the neutral and defensive zones.
As for offense, JT was excellent with Vanek, Moulson, and Lee last year. Maybe we go back to Kulemin as his winger to cover for him on defense?

 

[The Underboss]

Seems JT goes through this every season doesn't he? Then he ignites and catches fire.

 

[seafoam]

Seems JT goes through this every season doesn't he? Then he ignites and catches fire.

The drought this year seems to be worse than the ones in years past.

I have personally seen a lot more tunnel vision from JT this year than in years past. I just don't think he's trusting his linemates (and really hasn't for the majority of his career). I fear that he's become conditioned to playing with subpar linemates and these droughts of frustration he goes through will continue to eat away at the JT we all saw him becoming.

 

[charlie1]

Seems JT goes through this every season doesn't he? Then he ignites and catches fire.

Yep. Just looking over the charts he seems to hit a lull like this every season. Then he bounces back.

The problem is that JT is a negative asset when he isn't scoring. Okposo even more so. So it's especially painful when they're going through this.

 

[Seph]

The drought this year seems to be worse than the ones in years past.

I have personally seen a lot more tunnel vision from JT this year than in years past. I just don't think he's trusting his linemates (and really hasn't for the majority of his career). I fear that he's become conditioned to playing with subpar linemates and these droughts of frustration he goes through will continue to eat away at the JT we all saw him becoming.

Last year he started December with 2g 4pts in the first 8 games of the month, with both assists and 1 of the goals coming on the PP. This year, he's at 2g 2pts over the first 7 games, with 1 of the goals coming on the PP. It is worse, but it's really just two fewer PP assists, which says as much about the PP as it does Tavares. He has the same number of ES points as he did last year at this point for the month of December.

The good news is last year after game 8, he went on a tear with 19 points in his next 15 games, so hopefully he'll be shaking the slump soon. Considering we're 5-1-1 in December with him slumping like this, we should be very dangerous when he gets back to normal.

 

[seafoam]

Last year he started December with 2g 4pts in the first 8 games of the month, with both assists and 1 of the goals coming on the PP. This year, he's at 2g 2pts over the first 7 games, with 1 of the goals coming on the PP. It is worse, but it's really just two fewer PP assists, which says as much about the PP as it does Tavares. He has the same number of ES points as he did last year at this point for the month of December.

The good news is last year after game 8, he went on a tear with 19 points in his next 15 games, so hopefully he'll be shaking the slump soon. Considering we're 5-1-1 in December with him slumping like this, we should be very dangerous when he gets back to normal.

Again, I think the bigger difference is in how he's playing, for me. I never brought up points because I really pay more attention to how they come, as opposed to the amount of points that come. He's not using his teammates as much as he can be. I just feel like a lot of his points seem to become from individual play. (couldn wrong, who knows)

 

[42]

Again, I think the bigger difference is in how he's playing, for me. I never brought up points because I really pay more attention to how they come, as opposed to the amount of points that come. He's not using his teammates as much as he can be. I just feel like a lot of his points seem to become from individual play. (couldn wrong, who knows)

His g/a ratio supports your observation. He hasn't gotten an assist in his last 10 games.

 

[BroadwayJay*]

Again, I think the bigger difference is in how he's playing, for me. I never brought up points because I really pay more attention to how they come, as opposed to the amount of points that come. He's not using his teammates as much as he can be. I just feel like a lot of his points seem to become from individual play. (couldn wrong, who knows)

You're touching here on something I talk about a lot which is that process is more important than results.

You can play a good game and lose. You can play a bad game and win.

The result, if you intend on playing in the playoffs, is less important than the process as you go. If you have good process, and stick to that process, you're going to see better results than if you constantly try to change your processes because of outcomes.

So anyway I think you're spot on but I think it applies to everything in life, not just Jonny T.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

You're touching here on something I talk about a lot which is that process is more important than results.

You can play a good game and lose. You can play a bad game and win.

The result, if you intend on playing in the playoffs, is less important than the process as you go. If you have good process, and stick to that process, you're going to see better results than if you constantly try to change your processes because of outcomes.

So anyway I think you're spot on but I think it applies to everything in life, not just Jonny T.

Most games are lost, not won. - Casey Stengel

 

[BroadwayJay*]

Most games are lost, not won. - Casey Stengel

I think that quote is actually Master Yoda.

Lost, games are. Won they are not.

 

[YearlyLottery]

Tavares tends to be a very streaky player. Lee worries me more thus far.

 

[Seph]

Again, I think the bigger difference is in how he's playing, for me. I never brought up points because I really pay more attention to how they come, as opposed to the amount of points that come. He's not using his teammates as much as he can be. I just feel like a lot of his points seem to become from individual play. (couldn wrong, who knows)

I could be wrong, but I feel like we were saying the same things about him this time last year, though. Whenever he slumps, it seems we notice him trying to do too much individually, which gets him away from his game further.

My main point though was that in the past he's always figured it out, so I'm confident he will this time too.

 

[seafoam]

You're touching here on something I talk about a lot which is that process is more important than results.

You can play a good game and lose. You can play a bad game and win.

The result, if you intend on playing in the playoffs, is less important than the process as you go. If you have good process, and stick to that process, you're going to see better results than if you constantly try to change your processes because of outcomes.

So anyway I think you're spot on but I think it applies to everything in life, not just Jonny T.

I'm touching on topics you've already been talking about? Maybe law school is in my future.

But yes, I agree. It's a philosophy that should be taken into all aspects of life.

 

[GrandmaSlices51631]

Tavares tends to be a very streaky player. Lee worries me more thus far.

Lee worries you more?

Lee is a 6th round draft pick making ~4M dollars. When considering draft position and production, he is probably in the 99th percentile. Lee also knows his role and plays it well. He is not relied on to produce scoring chances (at least to my knowledge). His job is to battle along the boards, wear down the opposition with his physicality, cause problems in front and clean up. When other players are not creating chances, his numbers will take a dip. He also plays significantly less than JT. Take the stat sheet away, Lee has looked much better. Improved his skating tenfold and has set up some pretty goals.

Tavares on the other hand...

is a franchise center. He will make 10 Million/Season whether in NY or elsewhere.
He should be the engine that makes this team run and recently he's been stalling out in a major way. He has a whopping 7 more points than Anders Lee, who your worried about. Considering Tavares averages 20:11 Minutes a game to Lee's 14:58, this is alarming. More recently, he's been getting anywhere between 8 and 10 minutes more ice time than Lee. While I rant . . .

DEC 15 v. FLA

Tavares - 23:07
Lee- 15:08

DEC 13 v .NJD

Tavares - 19:52
Lee- 15:25

DEC 12 v. CBJ

Tavares - 25:27
Lee- 13:53

DEC 8 v. PHI

Tavares -20:48
Lee- 11:13


Theres a clear underachiever and overachiever, no need to play who's who. JT's F/O % over the last 5:

44.44 %
68.75 % - Devils missing Henrique and Zajac
45.45 %
41.18 %
37.50 %


I won't tell you who to worry about. I love JT as much as the next guy, his GWG's, OT heroics and desire to win. He needs to get it together. I'm never expecting him to be as complete a player as Kopitar or Toews, he won't be. But he's gone ICE COLD. It seems he's letting frustration get the best of him, his "I can do it all" approach is ineffective when he's not down low by the net. He doesn't have the speed of a Seguin to carry the puck through the neutral zone and we've seen him cough it up at the blue line consistently. Perhaps he doesn't believe in his supporting cast or he is just selfish, we can only speculate. What is clear is he is not playing like a #1, #2, $3 or even #4C at the moment. He has fell in the shadows of Nielsen and Okposo. . .

 

[BillD]

Tavares has gone ice cold on offense, his one area of effectiveness.
He has simultaneously played even worse than ever in the defensive and neutral zones and has gone form a + player to a - player (-1) and is trailing Okposo in team scoring by 3 points.
This is not the first time JT has received fan criticism, but it has gotten deeper because his overall play has been worse.
What he can do when not scoring he does not do, which is to keep his shifts short, not try to force plays on his own, and play a better, more committed brand of defense, which requires mostly attention and effort.

 

[YearlyLottery]

Lee worries you more?

Lee is a 6th round draft pick making ~4M dollars. When considering draft position and production, he is probably in the 99th percentile. Lee also knows his role and plays it well. He is not relied on to produce scoring chances (at least to my knowledge). His job is to battle along the boards, wear down the opposition with his physicality, cause problems in front and clean up. When other players are not creating chances, his numbers will take a dip. He also plays significantly less than JT. Take the stat sheet away, Lee has looked much better. Improved his skating tenfold and has set up some pretty goals.

Tavares on the other hand...

is a franchise center. He will make 10 Million/Season whether in NY or elsewhere.
He should be the engine that makes this team run and recently he's been stalling out in a major way. He has a whopping 7 more points than Anders Lee, who your worried about. Considering Tavares averages 20:11 Minutes a game to Lee's 14:58, this is alarming. More recently, he's been getting anywhere between 8 and 10 minutes more ice time than Lee. While I rant . . .

DEC 15 v. FLA

Tavares - 23:07
Lee- 15:08

DEC 13 v .NJD

Tavares - 19:52
Lee- 15:25

DEC 12 v. CBJ

Tavares - 25:27
Lee- 13:53

DEC 8 v. PHI

Tavares -20:48
Lee- 11:13


Theres a clear underachiever and overachiever, no need to play who's who. JT's F/O % over the last 5:

44.44 %
68.75 % - Devils missing Henrique and Zajac
45.45 %
41.18 %
37.50 %


I won't tell you who to worry about. I love JT as much as the next guy, his GWG's, OT heroics and desire to win. He needs to get it together. I'm never expecting him to be as complete a player as Kopitar or Toews, he won't be. But he's gone ICE COLD. It seems he's letting frustration get the best of him, his "I can do it all" approach is ineffective when he's not down low by the net. He doesn't have the speed of a Seguin to carry the puck through the neutral zone and we've seen him cough it up at the blue line consistently. Perhaps he doesn't believe in his supporting cast or he is just selfish, we can only speculate. What is clear is he is not playing like a #1, #2, $3 or even #4C at the moment. He has fell in the shadows of Nielsen and Okposo. . .

Yes let's worry about the guy who almost won the Art Ross this year, turned the franchise around, and is the captain of this team. That makes no sense whatsoever. Lee has been given a chance on many lines this season and has been invisible. So yes, I am more worried about Lee not bouncing back rather than Tavares.