Player Discussion: John Tavares- Part III

[Lek]

All he really wants to do is show Stamkos he can hold out longer.

 

[sabremike]

The ice is really bad at Barclays and we would all like it to be better. But the fact is that it's not worse than many other NHL buildings. In fact it may not even be the worst ice surface in New York City. It just gets magnified with all the other things wrong with Barclays. Remember JT was quoted as saying the ice in Toronto was worse than Barclays.

 

[A Pointed Stick]

The ice is really bad at Barclays and we would all like it to be better. But the fact is that it's not worse than many other NHL buildings. In fact it may not even be the worst ice surface in New York City. It just gets magnified with all the other things wrong with Barclays. Remember JT was quoted as saying the ice in Toronto was worse than Barclays.

Dude, the ice at Barcs is the worst ice in the league consistantly. Sure some games others are worse but over 41 games we are number 1 and the dimestore coolant system made by the dollar store and the complete lack of humidity remediation and zoning are the reason why.

 

[LeapOnOver]

Well, you see, that's what irks me about you guys.

In the midst of all your doubts, criticisms, and recent negative feelings about John Tavares, did it EVER cross your minds that the condition of the arena, the make-up of the team, the stability of the Islander's home location were the exact reasons John Tavares was holding off signing a contract extension now. Did you ever think that he takes his position as Captain of the New York Islanders seriously (which I think we all know he does) and that as Captain, he feels a obligation TO HIS FELLOW TEAMMATES to do every thing in his power to make sure these issues be taken care of before he agrees to sign on the dotted line.

Yes, the #1 priority for next season MUST, I REPEAT MUST, be the terrible condition of the ice. Kyle Clutterbuck was very vocal about this stating that the reason John Tavares was injured at the end of last season was because of the poor quality of the ice.

I'm willing to bet (and yes this IS speculation) that John Tavares is using his contract (which honestly are the ONLY cards he holds) as leverage to put pressure on Ledecky, Malkin, and Snow to get this circus under control so that he can lead this team under the appropriate conditions. It is NOT (again sensible speculation) a sign that he is having second thoughts about remaining an Islander, and we can extrapolate this from the simple fact that he has said OVER and OVER and OVER again that he wants to be an Islander and bring home the Stanley Cup.

If he signs now, what leverage does he have? NONE, other than promises from the owners that things will improve- the ice will be improved, the arena location will be finalized, but as we all know talk is cheap and money talks. If this is what it takes, then good for John Tavares. It only proves what a great character, leader, franchise player he really is. For all we know, John Tavares is doing the MOST John Tavares thing that he known for doing- CARRYING THE EFFING TEAM ON HIS BACK!

You see, if you would for once take off you're damned "the sky is falling" glasses off once in a while, you might actually understand what actually is going on, but if every thing that comes out of your mind is negative your going to keep missing the forest for the trees like you always do.

Woah...you are looking at this on too tiny of a level. JT isn't just an Islanders hero, he's a world hero. I heard from various world sources that he won't sign with the Islanders until Kim Jung Eun eliminates its nuclear capability, troops are removed from the middle east, and global warming is paid more attention to. He demands so much control in the situation, he's not going to stop at just fixing the Islanders, our hero is going to save the world!

PS. I've read posters here call Snow an egomaniac as well as DiPietro. But if JT actually believes and is following through with this drivel (he's not), then he would be the real egomaniac.

 

[PK Cronin]

Crew, Newsday staple said Tavares does not want a contract right now. That he is not in any rush to tie up his future. Anyone who doesnt want a 100 million dollars thrown at them, for doing something (hockey) he would do for free if the NHL folded, that means he really doesnt want to be here (as of now today). Tomorrow could be different. Maybe Snow trades for whats his name in colorado. Then maybe another Leddy type falls in their lapp. Maybe they are in first place around christmas (just play along)...then maybe tavares says "I want to be here long term". As of now he doesnt or he would sign a contract. For instance he is risking being traded at any moment by not signing. If being a islander was very important to him...or 100 million was important to him...he would sign. But he doesnt want a contract as of today. So obviously something else is important to him besides 100 million or the islanders.

You really need to reel it in.

Dude, the ice at Barcs is the worst ice in the league consistantly. Sure some games others are worse but over 41 games we are number 1 and the dimestore coolant system made by the dollar store and the complete lack of humidity remediation and zoning are the reason why.

Meh, other players have come in and said that their ice was worse (either Florida or Tampa). It's among the worst in the league, but there's no way to tell if it's the worst consistently. I do wonder how many arenas get the ice complaint though.

 

[A Pointed Stick]

You really need to reel it in.



Meh, other players have come in and said that their ice was worse (either Florida or Tampa). It's among the worst in the league, but there's no way to tell if it's the worst consistently. I do wonder how many arenas get the ice complaint though.

All of them after certain events. You can't do much about that.

Uniondale was the worst. Then we moved here and expected better ice. It is arguably worse. At a minimum, it is "disappointing."

Stupid factoid: Barclays piping system does not meet the NHL's minimum standards. I don't know how we move into there with that in place, but we did. I don't know who screwed up, but someone sure did.

 

[LeapOnOver]

All of them after certain events. You can't do much about that.

Uniondale was the worst. Then we moved here and expected better ice. It is arguably worse. At a minimum, it is "disappointing."

Stupid factoid: Barclays piping system does not meet the NHL's minimum standards. I don't know how we move into there with that in place, but we did. I don't know who screwed up, but someone sure did.

Speaking on that issue, what was the end result? Last I saw they were sending experts to investigate it. If it's not up to standards wouldn't they "have" to replace it, or is this basically one of those suggestions that nobody enforces? If it does have to be replaced, they should be tearing up the floor and doing that right now. If they aren't I'd have to imagine the decision is already made that this is no longer the future home of NYI.

 

[CREW99AW]

Crew, Newsday staple said Tavares does not want a contract right now. That he is not in any rush to tie up his future. Anyone who doesnt want a 100 million dollars thrown at them, for doing something (hockey) he would do for free if the NHL folded, that means he really doesnt want to be here (as of now today). Tomorrow could be different. Maybe Snow trades for whats his name in colorado. Then maybe another Leddy type falls in their lapp. Maybe they are in first place around christmas (just play along)...then maybe tavares says "I want to be here long term". As of now he doesnt or he would sign a contract. For instance he is risking being traded at any moment by not signing. If being a islander was very important to him...or 100 million was important to him...he would sign. But he doesnt want a contract as of today. So obviously something else is important to him besides 100 million or the islanders.

You back track, saying Newsday says he does want a nyi contract NOW.
Earlier you posted he has no interest in any isles extension, at any point. For any amount.

Not ragging on you. I simply wanted to know if you had a credible source and you clearly don't.

 

[Rehabguy]

Woah...you are looking at this on too tiny of a level. JT isn't just an Islanders hero, he's a world hero. I heard from various world sources that he won't sign with the Islanders until Kim Jung Eun eliminates its nuclear capability, troops are removed from the middle east, and global warming is paid more attention to. He demands so much control in the situation, he's not going to stop at just fixing the Islanders, our hero is going to save the world!

PS. I've read posters here call Snow an egomaniac as well as DiPietro. But if JT actually believes and is following through with this drivel (he's not), then he would be the real egomaniac.

You see the more sense you try to talk into some people the more defensive and absurd the response.

Based on your pasts posts you would rather believe John Tavares to be a turn-coat lying son of ***** than a man simply holding off contract negotiations until he sees evidence that team making real attempts to improve the team.

How you go from improving ice conditions, stabilizing the arena situation, and/or acquiring quality free agents to "saving the world" is beyond me.

The fact that you do not seem to understand that when a team is willing to pay one player over $100 million dollars for his services- that just maybe, JUST MAYBE he commands a real influence on the team- and that as team captain, the #1 draft pick, the "franchise player", the Hart trophy candidate- he has certain responsibilities and obligations to his teammates- that just maybe, MAYBE, he's not the egomaniac that you are suggesting he is for trying to make the team better?



Do you realize that when he signs how ridiculous your posts are going to appear?

 

[seafoam]

Yes the ice is bad, but what about the thought that we are the only team in the league that's arena uses plastic pipes instead of metal.

There is bad ice on some nights in most arenas, but at least those arenas are taking professional measures to try and make the ice as good as possible, something ONLY the Islanders haven't done (for whatever reasons).

If I'm a guy who suffered an ice related injury, and my organization isn't doing everything they possibly can to upgrade the ice infrastructure to the NHL STANDARD, then I don't blame him for thinking twice about investing the heart of his career into the team.

 

[Rehabguy]

Yes the ice is bad, but what about the thought that we are the only team in the league that's arena uses plastic pipes instead of metal.

There is bad ice on some nights in most arenas, but at least those arenas are taking professional measures to try and make the ice as good as possible, something ONLY the Islanders haven't done (for whatever reasons).

If I'm a guy who suffered an ice related injury, and my organization isn't doing everything they possibly can to upgrade the ice infrastructure to the NHL STANDARD, then I don't blame him for thinking twice about investing the heart of his career into the team.

Agreed.

Or (in regards to the bolded) doing everything with his influence to try to change the situation before signing on the dotted line. And if I had been injured on said ice, I would make the same demands for the good of everyone involved. Malkin and Ledecky really need to pressure Barclays to make the ice safer and more playable. He simply can't meet his obligations as the franchise player whose shoulder it was bestowed to return this team back the Stanley Cup finals if he isn't granted the appropriate environment to do it.

 

[Rehabguy]

Some may be wondering if the conditions of the ice were one of the major issues holding John Tavares from signing on the dotted line (again- speculation) why wasn't it taken care of sooner?

And as usual it boils down to money- probably in the multi-millions to redo, or modify the ice making system at Barclays. Who pays for it? Barclays says they will fix it if they have some assurances that the Islanders are staying for the long-term. Ledecky and Malkin should not feel that they should be paying extra millions out of pocket to improve ice conditions at Barclays whether or not that requires additional staffing, equipment, preparation time before games and the costs associated with it because the ice should have been playable from the start.

The Islanders would have to prove that the ice conditions make it unsafe for players to play on the ice without serious risk of injury for this to become a legal obligation for Barclays to be required to pay for it. There already is evidence of this and I don't believe it was as mistake when Cal Clutterbuck publicly announced that it was the poor ice condition that caused John Tavares' injury at the end of last season.

John Tavares may have felt the responsibility to make sure whatever the case may be that Ledecky and Malkin "make it happen"- whatever it takes- hiring lawyers, spending extra money, putting the screws on Barclay to make the argument that the ice should have been playable and safe to play on from day one. So he holds off signing on the dotted line until he has concrete evidence that ice conditions will improve for his team going into next season.

I think we all know that poor ice conditions were a major issue for the players last season.

 

[blitzkriegs]

This thread is too funny. Now, it's all about the pipes again. The pipes were not changed bc the BSE and the league thought they could get away with it. It also indicates that BC is most likely a temporary home for the Isles. If the Isles were truly locked in at BC for the iron clad future, then a prudent building owner would make the improvement up to NHL standard. However, that does not seem to be happening...

It's a significant capital investment by BC for what only be a temporary solution for an event that may no longer need the solution. Not a wise investment if you are BC.

 

[Rehabguy]

This thread is too funny. Now, it's all about the pipes again. The pipes were not changed bc the BSE and the league thought they could get away with it. It also indicates that BC is most likely a temporary home for the Isles. If the Isles were truly locked in at BC for the iron clad future, then a prudent building owner would make the improvement up to NHL standard. However, that does not seem to be happening...

Yes that's exactly the problem, but clearly something has to be done about it.

You have one of the most talented centers in the league and he's having a hard time working his magic because the puck is jumping all over the place and players are tripping over the slush- some including JT injuring themselves.

Of course it has to be an issue.

That's the question. Who pays for it? Barclays, because it may be safety issue or the Islanders, because it is considered an "upgrade".

Whoever pays for it will have to dole out a lot of money. If I were JT, I would just be telling my employers to make sure it happens if you want me to continue to work for you. If I were JT I wouldn't budge until the situation was rectified. Good for him if he's taking a stand.

 

[doublechili]

This thread is too funny. Now, it's all about the pipes again. The pipes were not changed bc the BSE and the league thought they could get away with it. It also indicates that BC is most likely a temporary home for the Isles. If the Isles were truly locked in at BC for the iron clad future, then a prudent building owner would make the improvement up to NHL standard. However, that does not seem to be happening...

It's a significant capital investment by BC for what only be a temporary solution for an event that may no longer need the solution. Not a wise investment if you are BC.

Iron-clad lease, but plastic pipes.

 

[seafoam]

This thread is too funny. Now, it's all about the pipes again. The pipes were not changed bc the BSE and the league thought they could get away with it. It also indicates that BC is most likely a temporary home for the Isles. If the Isles were truly locked in at BC for the iron clad future, then a prudent building owner would make the improvement up to NHL standard. However, that does not seem to be happening...

It's a significant capital investment by BC for what only be a temporary solution for an event that may no longer need the solution. Not a wise investment if you are BC.

I'm not saying it's all about the pipes.

I'm simply making a point that Tavares may be starting to look around and realize that the Islanders are a cut below the rest of the league as an organization. 1 out of 31 teams without metal pipes, an owner who gave the GM a ten year contract extension before he lost majority control of the team (handcuffing new owners), home game travel, arena uncertainty, etc.

I'm sure he's kept in contact with former Islanders who left as well (Martin, Okposo, Nielsen) and heard how things are on the otherside.

Yes, Tavares wants to be the guy to lead them back to the gloryland, but when is the tipping point that he says enough is enough, and just wants to show up and play hockey without these off ice issues that the vast majority of NHL teams don't deal with?

 

[Rehabguy]

I'm not saying it's all about the pipes.

I'm simply making a point that Tavares may be starting to look around and realize that the Islanders are a cut below the rest of the league as an organization. 1 out of 31 teams without metal pipes, an owner who gave the GM a ten year contract extension before he lost majority control of the team (handcuffing new owners), home game travel, arena uncertainty, etc.

I'm sure he's kept in contact with former Islanders who left as well (Martin, Okposo, Nielsen) and heard how things are on the otherside.

Yes, Tavares wants to be the guy to lead them back to the gloryland, but when is the tipping point that he says enough is enough, and just wants to show up and play hockey without these off ice issues that the vast majority of NHL teams don't deal with?

Yeah, I'm so surprised they were able to keep this a secret from him since 2009.

 

[A Pointed Stick]

Speaking on that issue, what was the end result? Last I saw they were sending experts to investigate it. If it's not up to standards wouldn't they "have" to replace it, or is this basically one of those suggestions that nobody enforces? If it does have to be replaced, they should be tearing up the floor and doing that right now. If they aren't I'd have to imagine the decision is already made that this is no longer the future home of NYI.

Apparently like the UN, investigating until the problem grows old. The only thing that ever happened was a bandaid using portable humidity controls. Hell will freeze over before Barcs shuts down to fix this the right way. Not only do you have the bad pipes, but you have the climate control system which is in part a significant structural issue.

 

[TeamKidd]

Apparently like the UN, investigating until the problem grows old. The only thing that ever happened was a bandaid using portable humidity controls. Hell will freeze over before Barcs shuts down to fix this the right way. Not only do you have the bad pipes, but you have the climate control system which is in part a significant structural issue.

I think the plan is to hope for a cold winter.

::seems legit::



Guys, he's leaving. Everything about the islanders is baked in. He knows this team and this organization and I can't imagine anything the Islanders can do to change that perception by next july. It's the Islanders, of course he's leaving. Days of Our Lives.

 

[A Pointed Stick]

I think the plan is to hope for a cold winter.

::seems legit::



Guys, he's leaving. Everything about the islanders is baked in. He knows this team and this organization and I can't imagine anything the Islanders can do to change that perception by next july. It's the Islanders, of course he's leaving. Days of Our Lives.

I was only addressing the ice issue.

JT leaving... if he has told the Islanders he is as good as gone I'd be willing to bet they'd have already started shopping him, and good luck keeping that from leaking in 1 hour let alone 24, and Garf would be fired. Neither have happened.

 

[aronjudge11]

JT would have to be nuts to tell the isles hes leaving. To come to work for maybe a whole year with all your teammates and media know you want out. Even if he had to show up and be here for 3 months it would be crazy I would do exactly like he is doing if I was leaving id say...I like it here and wish to continue but I dont want to sign anything I will discuss it next year. Then id leave. and if the isles complain about being misled they deserve bad things for being morons from wang to snow to ledecky. Three stooges alright.

 

[A Pointed Stick]

JT would have to be nuts to tell the isles hes leaving. To come to work for maybe a whole year with all your teammates and media know you want out. Even if he had to show up and be here for 3 months it would be crazy I would do exactly like he is doing if I was leaving id say...I like it here and wish to continue but I dont want to sign anything I will discuss it next year. Then id leave. and if the isles complain about being misled they deserve bad things for being morons from wang to snow to ledecky. Three stooges alright.

Hamonic did it. Just saying.

 

[LeapOnOver]

You see the more sense you try to talk into some people the more defensive and absurd the response.

Based on your pasts posts you would rather believe John Tavares to be a turn-coat lying son of ***** than a man simply holding off contract negotiations until he sees evidence that team making real attempts to improve the team.

How you go from improving ice conditions, stabilizing the arena situation, and/or acquiring quality free agents to "saving the world" is beyond me.

The fact that you do not seem to understand that when a team is willing to pay one player over $100 million dollars for his services- that just maybe, JUST MAYBE he commands a real influence on the team- and that as team captain, the #1 draft pick, the "franchise player", the Hart trophy candidate- he has certain responsibilities and obligations to his teammates- that just maybe, MAYBE, he's not the egomaniac that you are suggesting he is for trying to make the team better?



Do you realize that when he signs how ridiculous your posts are going to appear?

Actually, since you claim to know so much about me, if you read my posts you would see I 100% agree with the bold. It's others on here that say that the bold is not true, various league sources and just unsubstantiated rumors, and JT is only waiting to allow Garth Snow the financial freedom to make other signing decisions before putting ink to paper. That, along with your philanthropic ramblings, are what I think is horse manure.

I think JT is waiting to see what direction the team is going before he decides to sign a contract. It's that decision, based on my opinion and various league sources, that is why he isn't going to extend. Currently, yes, I do think JT has lied. This isn't emotional, this is me anticipating due to his verbalized overwhelming desire to stay with the Islanders and is now not extended. To me he's already come off as two-faced. He would have had to put ink to paper in July for me to not have felt that way.

As far as whether he does end up signing ...I'll be relived if he does. I won't care about "looking silly". I won't look any sillier than folks who thought Matt Donovan would replace Mark Streit, people who thought the Isles would make the playoffs last year, people who thought Ladd would make us forget about Okposo, and any other premature tarot card reading or soothsayings.

 

[blitzkriegs]

Yes that's exactly the problem, but clearly something has to be done about it.

You have one of the most talented centers in the league and he's having a hard time working his magic because the puck is jumping all over the place and players are tripping over the slush- some including JT injuring themselves.

Of course it has to be an issue.

That's the question. Who pays for it? Barclays, because it may be safety issue or the Islanders, because it is considered an "upgrade".

Whoever pays for it will have to dole out a lot of money. If I were JT, I would just be telling my employers to make sure it happens if you want me to continue to work for you. If I were JT I wouldn't budge until the situation was rectified. Good for him if he's taking a stand.

Again, nothing will be done if the Isles are leaving. Simple as that.

The Isles have had RFAs and UFAs resign knowing the ice conditions.

 

[GrandmaSlices51631]

Crew, Newsday staple said Tavares does not want a contract right now. That he is not in any rush to tie up his future. Anyone who doesnt want a 100 million dollars thrown at them, for doing something (hockey) he would do for free if the NHL folded, that means he really doesnt want to be here (as of now today). Tomorrow could be different. Maybe Snow trades for whats his name in colorado. Then maybe another Leddy type falls in their lapp. Maybe they are in first place around christmas (just play along)...then maybe tavares says "I want to be here long term". As of now he doesnt or he would sign a contract. For instance he is risking being traded at any moment by not signing. If being a islander was very important to him...or 100 million was important to him...he would sign. But he doesnt want a contract as of today. .

Bottom line.

He isn't convinced the Isles are cup caliber.


And may know more about Snow's alleged ironclad contract. If you knew GM Garth Snow was going to be around for say another 5 years (spitballing here), would you be intent on signing long term?

All his most beloved linemates and top producing forwards were off hauled or not retained, Nielsen, Okposo, Strome, Moulson, Vanek. Lee and Bails do a nice job and I know business is business but the Islanders track record of keeping those top6 players around actually doesn't look that good.

What happened to the brotherhood with Strome? I thought they were even roommates at one point and I remember there was some PR with 91 mentoring 18, Strome was mishandled by Capuano but in some form Strome's success or lack of would be noted by organization and it is a well known fact that 91 was in a mentor role for 18, I'm not blaming here, just wondering if internally, this was ever discussed or why Strome didn't work out on the Island.

Basically saying, he's gotten JERKED around for years... The top 6 forward group has had so much turnover and the 2nd Line has been a weaker link since Nielsen left....

I sure hope JT sticks around, gosh that'll sting forever if he leaves