Player Discussion: John Tavares- Part III

[leeroggy]

One small thing that might have some impact on his decision:

If the arena is in NYC (Brooklyn or Willets Point) or in Nassau (Elmont) makes a difference in about $300,000 in taxes on a $9,000,000 salary based on which is chosen.

Not saying it makes a big difference, just that it is there.

 

[Rehabguy]

Going into the season without an extension is the least John Tavares thing John Tavares can do.

If he's not really (or willing) to put the pen to the paper by the beginning of the season, then it's obvious he is having some major second thoughts.

He prides himself off of showing his committment to the franchise and avoiding creating any districtions, so if he's doing just that, then it's a
major red flag.

I would counter this by saying that going into the season without a complaint is the least typical Islander fan thing that a typical Islander fan can do.

If the sky was not falling, something clearly is wrong with Islander fandom.



From the outside looking in, this is one sad fanbase... Sorry, but some might even say a bunch of whiners.

 

[MJF]

I would counter this by saying that going into the season without a complaint is the least typical Islander fan thing that a typical Islander fan can do.

If the sky was not falling, something clearly is wrong with Islander fandom.



From the outside looking in, this is one sad fanbase... Sorry, but some might even say a bunch of whiners.

Because Lord knows there's been nothing to complain about with the Islanders.

 

[PK Cronin]

That's how he's gonna decide whether to sign a contract or not?

I don't see what's so wrong about waiting to see how well the team is going to perform. If he sees the Isles can't spend money properly and be competitive, maybe he doesn't want to stay. If last year was just a blip and they're solidly in a playoff position that would only help things.

I'm sure you have shot down "various league sources" before, but you are right I don't have anything to say you've said it on this issue. It was more of a consensus thing. I see a lot of people out there saying these contradictory things. I really just wanted to get your take on it.

I have a better understanding now. I thought you were one of those people who was confident he was going to resign. I'm leaning towards believing the league sources. As you say waiting is the best from a business standpoint, but Tavares has been all about the business of hockey, not contracts since he arrived here. If he wants to resign, and doesn't care about the arena situation, it's out of character for him to not put pen to paper (of course he could still do it). Going into the season with this distraction doesn't align with the actions and words of JT from Christmas past.

I typically believe Tavares when he's speaking in public. Nothing about his demeanor or tone suggests he's lying, to me that is. I'm still of the opinion that he'll sign. I'm still of the opinion that Snow is only here because of some connection to Tavares that might aid in re-signing him (otherwise, why is he still here?). The longer it goes on the more worried I get, but I'm not at a panic level yet. There's plenty of time left. I'm definitely against trading Tavares unless he specifically tells ownership he won't re-sign. Otherwise, any package we get back will likely be underwhelming and I'd rather roll the dice on trying to re-sign him for as long as possible. If this team doesn't have Tavares on it, it's going straight to the bottom of the league again.

He's committed or not based on the performance of the team. They have increased the payroll from bargain basement to one of the higher ones in the league. They are committing to spend. Whether they are spending appropriately is an entirely different matter.

However, the only thing that should be left in his mind come Christmas is whether the Isles were awarded the winning bid for Belmont. He knows everything else already.

He doesn't know if last year was a blip on the radar or if that's what the team is, a bubble playoff team. Maybe he wants to confirm how good the team will be? I do think the arena confirmation will be big.

 

[Rehabguy]

Because Lord knows there's been nothing to complain about with the Islanders.

Every team has something that can be complained about, but no fanbase (other than maybe the Leafs) seems to make the largest mountains out of molehills.

Some of you guys act like we are an organization still run by Spano and Milbury.

 

[aronjudge11]

Put me in the category of people who think its all about--how good this team (isnt)--and it has nothing to do with the arena. The arena thing is the polite way to put off the contract. These players go play in beer leagues in the summer they live to play hockey and dont sit in the stands they dont care what arena they play in. They play outside in the middle of winter when told to and are happy to do it. Its all about--Do I waste my career here and never make a cup run? But I get that jersey in the rafters...and be loved like don mattingly is....or do I leave and win playoff rounds on a top 6 team? The loss of olympics might be hurting the isles cause tavares could look at that as his enjoyment of big games and the islanders as his paycheck.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

I don't see what's so wrong about waiting to see how well the team is going to perform.

I dunno. I don't see where the team is at Xmas having much bearing on an 8 year decision.

 

[periferal]

Just for references sake, here's a list of "face of the franchise players" and on what date they signed their contract extensions, as well as when they would have become UFA:

Anze Kopitar - signed January 16, 2016; UFA July 1st, 2016
Jonathan Toews - signed July 9th, 2014; UFA July 1st, 2015
Patrick Kane - signed July 9th, 2014; UFA July 1st, 2015
Evgeni Malkin - signed June 13th, 2013; UFA July 1st, 2014
Jamie Benn - signed July 15th, 2016; UFA July 1st, 2017
Sidney Crosby - signed June 28th, 2012; UFA July 1st, 2013
Steve Stamkos - signed June 29th, 2016; UFA July 1st, 2016
Claude Giroux - signed July 4th, 2013; UFA July 1st, 2014
Corey Perry - signed March 18th, 2013; UFA July 1st, 2013
Ryan Getzlaf - signed March 8th, 2013; UFA July 1st, 2013

Six of the ten signed almost as soon as they were allowed to re-sign, while four of the ten saw their contracts drag into the season before finally being resolved. Kopitar's was signed at around the all-star break, Perry and Getzlaf signed near the trade deadline, while Stamkos' was literally the last minute.

This is an incredibly well-researched post. Kudos across the board, but don't think it addresses the key parts of the issue here. What this shows is that a pending UFA could sign at any time during his UFA.

What this post does not address is the specific nature of Tavares' situation:

1. The arena situation
2. The total lack of success of the Isles since Tavares has been a part of it

Does anyone seriously doubt for a second that if the Isles had a brand new arena like what Edmonton now has, and snow surrounded JT with more legit talent so we could win more than 1 playoff round during JT's tenure, that he wouldn't have resigned already?

 

[Rehabguy]

This is an incredibly well-researched post. Kudos across the board, but don't think it addresses the key parts of the issue here. What this shows is that a pending UFA could sign at any time during his UFA.

What this post does not address is the specific nature of Tavares' situation:

1. The arena situation
2. The total lack of success of the Isles since Tavares has been a part of it

Does anyone seriously doubt for a second that if the Isles had a brand new arena like what Edmonton now has, and snow surrounded JT with more legit talent so we could win more than 1 playoff round during JT's tenure, that he wouldn't have resigned already?

Well, you see, that's what irks me about you guys.

In the midst of all your doubts, criticisms, and recent negative feelings about John Tavares, did it EVER cross your minds that the condition of the arena, the make-up of the team, the stability of the Islander's home location were the exact reasons John Tavares was holding off signing a contract extension now. Did you ever think that he takes his position as Captain of the New York Islanders seriously (which I think we all know he does) and that as Captain, he feels a obligation TO HIS FELLOW TEAMMATES to do every thing in his power to make sure these issues be taken care of before he agrees to sign on the dotted line.

Yes, the #1 priority for next season MUST, I REPEAT MUST, be the terrible condition of the ice. Kyle Clutterbuck was very vocal about this stating that the reason John Tavares was injured at the end of last season was because of the poor quality of the ice.

I'm willing to bet (and yes this IS speculation) that John Tavares is using his contract (which honestly are the ONLY cards he holds) as leverage to put pressure on Ledecky, Malkin, and Snow to get this circus under control so that he can lead this team under the appropriate conditions. It is NOT (again sensible speculation) a sign that he is having second thoughts about remaining an Islander, and we can extrapolate this from the simple fact that he has said OVER and OVER and OVER again that he wants to be an Islander and bring home the Stanley Cup.

If he signs now, what leverage does he have? NONE, other than promises from the owners that things will improve- the ice will be improved, the arena location will be finalized, but as we all know talk is cheap and money talks. If this is what it takes, then good for John Tavares. It only proves what a great character, leader, franchise player he really is. For all we know, John Tavares is doing the MOST John Tavares thing that he known for doing- CARRYING THE EFFING TEAM ON HIS BACK!

You see, if you would for once take off you're damned "the sky is falling" glasses off once in a while, you might actually understand what actually is going on, but if every thing that comes out of your mind is negative your going to keep missing the forest for the trees like you always do.

 

[Rehabguy]

I mean, if you guys can't read between the lines, when he has his surrogate and line-mate Anders Lee tell the press that John Tavares wants to remain with the Islanders, to calm the growing fan riot then I don't know what to tell you. He's practically saying, "don't worry guys, I got this."

 

[Profet]

One small thing that might have some impact on his decision:

If the arena is in NYC (Brooklyn or Willets Point) or in Nassau (Elmont) makes a difference in about $300,000 in taxes on a $9,000,000 salary based on which is chosen.

Not saying it makes a big difference, just that it is there.

Huh? NYC Income tax is based on where you live, not where you work. You can work in NYC and not pay NYC income tax, if you live in Nassau.

Similarly, if you work in Nassau County, but live in manhattan, you'll pay NYC income tax.

The commuter tax hasn't been a thing in years.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

This is an incredibly well-researched post. Kudos across the board, but don't think it addresses the key parts of the issue here. What this shows is that a pending UFA could sign at any time during his UFA.

What this post does not address is the specific nature of Tavares' situation:

1. The arena situation
2. The total lack of success of the Isles since Tavares has been a part of it

Does anyone seriously doubt for a second that if the Isles had a brand new arena like what Edmonton now has, and snow surrounded JT with more legit talent so we could win more than 1 playoff round during JT's tenure, that he wouldn't have resigned already?

Oh, I wasn't meaning to make a direct comparison between Tavares and those guys' situations. It was more of an interesting look at how the contract situations of similar players unfolded.

I was actually surprised that Kopitar, Perry and Getzlaf went that far into the season before signing. Perry and Getzlaf, in particular, took longer than I remember. The only one I recall going down to the wire was Stamkos, but maybe it's because it's just the most recent.

 

[doublechili]

Well, you see, that's what irks me about you guys.

In the midst of all your doubts, criticisms, and recent negative feelings about John Tavares, did it EVER cross your minds that the condition of the arena, the make-up of the team, the stability of the Islander's home location were the exact reasons John Tavares was holding off signing a contract extension now. Did you ever think that he takes his position as Captain of the New York Islanders seriously (which I think we all know he does) and that as Captain, he feels a obligation TO HIS FELLOW TEAMMATES to do every thing in his power to make sure these issues be taken care of before he agrees to sign on the dotted line.

Yes, the #1 priority for next season MUST, I REPEAT MUST, be the terrible condition of the ice. Kyle Clutterbuck was very vocal about this stating that the reason John Tavares was injured at the end of last season was because of the poor quality of the ice.

I'm willing to bet (and yes this IS speculation) that John Tavares is using his contract (which honestly are the ONLY cards he holds) as leverage to put pressure on Ledecky, Malkin, and Snow to get this circus under control so that he can lead this team under the appropriate conditions. It is NOT (again sensible speculation) a sign that he is having second thoughts about remaining an Islander, and we can extrapolate this from the simple fact that he has said OVER and OVER and OVER again that he wants to be an Islander and bring home the Stanley Cup.

If he signs now, what leverage does he have? NONE, other than promises from the owners that things will improve- the ice will be improved, the arena location will be finalized, but as we all know talk is cheap and money talks. If this is what it takes, then good for John Tavares. It only proves what a great character, leader, franchise player he really is. For all we know, John Tavares is doing the MOST John Tavares thing that he known for doing- CARRYING THE EFFING TEAM ON HIS BACK!

You see, if you would for once take off you're damned "the sky is falling" glasses off once in a while, you might actually understand what actually is going on, but if every thing that comes out of your mind is negative your going to keep missing the forest for the trees like you always do.

This is an entirely plausible scenario. And I think it's much more consistent with JT's personality/values than some of the "cut and run" stuff being posted here.

BTW, it must have been a typo, but "Kyle Clutterbuck" makes me think of a RW who dipsy-doodles too much, falls down a lot, and when he finally does get a shot off it's high and wide to the glove side.

 

[lazycop]

I don't buy the 'He wants to wait to see how good the team is' crap.

He's been with this group for years now. The only difference is no Hamonic, adding Eberle, and presumably a better coaching staff. If he's concerned with how good the team is going forward, and I for one don't think that's an issue, then he's probably made up his mind to leave already.
I still think he signs before opening night.

 

[lazycop]

Well, you see, that's what irks me about you guys.

In the midst of all your doubts, criticisms, and recent negative feelings about John Tavares, did it EVER cross your minds that the condition of the arena, the make-up of the team, the stability of the Islander's home location were the exact reasons John Tavares was holding off signing a contract extension now. Did you ever think that he takes his position as Captain of the New York Islanders seriously (which I think we all know he does) and that as Captain, he feels a obligation TO HIS FELLOW TEAMMATES to do every thing in his power to make sure these issues be taken care of before he agrees to sign on the dotted line.

Yes, the #1 priority for next season MUST, I REPEAT MUST, be the terrible condition of the ice. Kyle Clutterbuck was very vocal about this stating that the reason John Tavares was injured at the end of last season was because of the poor quality of the ice.

I'm willing to bet (and yes this IS speculation) that John Tavares is using his contract (which honestly are the ONLY cards he holds) as leverage to put pressure on Ledecky, Malkin, and Snow to get this circus under control so that he can lead this team under the appropriate conditions. It is NOT (again sensible speculation) a sign that he is having second thoughts about remaining an Islander, and we can extrapolate this from the simple fact that he has said OVER and OVER and OVER again that he wants to be an Islander and bring home the Stanley Cup.

If he signs now, what leverage does he have? NONE, other than promises from the owners that things will improve- the ice will be improved, the arena location will be finalized, but as we all know talk is cheap and money talks. If this is what it takes, then good for John Tavares. It only proves what a great character, leader, franchise player he really is. For all we know, John Tavares is doing the MOST John Tavares thing that he known for doing- CARRYING THE EFFING TEAM ON HIS BACK!

You see, if you would for once take off you're damned "the sky is falling" glasses off once in a while, you might actually understand what actually is going on, but if every thing that comes out of your mind is negative your going to keep missing the forest for the trees like you always do.

This is all well and good but how does JT waiting on signing a contract have any bearing on the condition of the ice at Barclay's? I was under the impression that the problem was related to the type of piping used under the ice and that it was pretty-much not fixable. Unless I'm mistaken? As for the arena location, i'm not sure Tavares signing or waiting to sign is going to sway anyone with the State who's making the decisions on weather the Isles get the Belmont site.

 

[PK Cronin]

This is all well and good but how does JT waiting on signing a contract have any bearing on the condition of the ice at Barclay's? I was under the impression that the problem was related to the type of piping used under the ice and that it was pretty-much not fixable. Unless I'm mistaken?

Barclays has said they'll fix it if the Isles are going to continue to play there. Not sure how long they need to play there in order for that to happen.

 

[MikeyMike01]

Every team has something that can be complained about, but no fanbase (other than maybe the Leafs) seems to make the largest mountains out of molehills.

Some of you guys act like we are an organization still run by Spano and Milbury.

I'll believe Ledecky and Malkin are good owners when they show it to me. So far we've got nothing.

If they get Tavares resigned and a new building built, then I'll be on board. If Tavares leaves and the Islanders are playing in Barclay's then they're just as bad as Wang et al.

 

[ThreeLeftSkates]

Every team has something that can be complained about, but no fanbase (other than maybe the Leafs) seems to make the largest mountains out of molehills.

Some of you guys act like we are an organization still run by Spano and Milbury.

Until the Isles start being run like an NHL Team, Mad Mike might as well resume his duties.
Laughingstock of the League!
Garth can still be President, what with the fine job he has done so far!

 

[Strummergas]

I'll believe Ledecky and Malkin are good owners when they show it to me. So far we've got nothing.

If they get Tavares resigned and a new building built, then I'll be on board. If Tavares leaves and the Islanders are playing in Barclay's then they're just as bad as Wang et al.

The Islanders being awarded the RFA says less about the quality of ownership than it does about how the state decides it wants the land at Belmont to be utilized. They could put in a great bid and still lose out because the state wants to go in a different direction.

 

[67 others]

Huh? NYC Income tax is based on where you live, not where you work. You can work in NYC and not pay NYC income tax, if you live in Nassau.

Similarly, if you work in Nassau County, but live in manhattan, you'll pay NYC income tax.

The commuter tax hasn't been a thing in years.

They released some NHL paychecks a few years back(Tampa I think) that shows how they pay Tampa tax when playing in Tampa, but every other state/Provinces taxes for away games.

It factored into calculations on how much Stamkos would save per year if he resigned in Tampa

 

[JKP]

I dunno. I don't see where the team is at Xmas having much bearing on an 8 year decision.

This. Are they committed to winning (i.e. spending) and doing the things to win?

That's a more crucial question than how's the team doing in the first 3 months of a 105 month contractual commitment (this yr plus 8 yrs).

 

[MikeyMike01]

The Islanders being awarded the RFA says less about the quality of ownership than it does about how the state decides it wants the land at Belmont to be utilized. They could put in a great bid and still lose out because the state wants to go in a different direction.

I don't care. Make it happen, at Belmont or elsewhere. They won't get any credit for trying from me.

 

[Rehabguy]

This is all well and good but how does JT waiting on signing a contract have any bearing on the condition of the ice at Barclay's? I was under the impression that the problem was related to the type of piping used under the ice and that it was pretty-much not fixable. Unless I'm mistaken? As for the arena location, i'm not sure Tavares signing or waiting to sign is going to sway anyone with the State who's making the decisions on weather the Isles get the Belmont site.

John Tavares does not have a direct bearing on what happens with management issues such as the quality of ice he plays on. He isn't the one paying the lease. But he sure as hell has an influence on the guys who do. He can put the screws to them and make statements such as I'm going to hold off signing a contract until I see some concrete evidence that ice conditions will be improved at Barclays next year- that real efforts are being made and negotiations taking place to either improve the conditions on the ice or that the problem will be remedied with another arena in the next couple of years and that there is a clear plan in place.

The last thing I'm sure he would want to hear from the owners after he signs his contract is, "oh yeah those ice conditions, we'll get to them when we have time, right now the ice is playable and no one has gotten seriously hurt, so make the best of it." As an elite player who at a minimum depends on a quality ice surface to work his magic, this would be the last thing I'm sure he would want to hear.

Let's face it the poor ice conditions at Barclay's basically neutralized any home ice advantage the Isles would have had last year. It's ridiculous and it's sad that nothing to this day has been done about it. If it takes JT all year to hold off signing his contract until this situation is rectified, so be it!

 

[CREW99AW]

While there's obviously nothing concrete and it's just speculation, one has to assume it comes down to one of two things (or maybe a combination of both):

1-His perception of how competitive the Isles will be.
2-The uncertainty of the arena situation.

Again, speculation, but I can't see the sticking point being money or term. I doubt Snow would nickle and dime Tavares on the dollar amount, and I'm pretty sure he'd love to sign JT for the 8 year max. So the only reasonable sticking points would be the above two items, no?

If it's #1, then that should speak volumes about what Tavares thinks of the job Snow has done up to this point if he's still unsure of whether to re-sign or not.

Months ago one of the new owners was quoted, saying the isles would get Tavares signed. I took his comment to mean that whatever Tavares contract demands would be, that the owners were prepared to meet them.
So,I don't think the sticking point is salary or term.

My guess is Tavares wants to know how good the on ice product is going to be.

The poster aronjudge11 says Tavares has zero interest in getting a contract from the isles..I would like to know his source.

 

[aronjudge11]

Crew, Newsday staple said Tavares does not want a contract right now. That he is not in any rush to tie up his future. Anyone who doesnt want a 100 million dollars thrown at them, for doing something (hockey) he would do for free if the NHL folded, that means he really doesnt want to be here (as of now today). Tomorrow could be different. Maybe Snow trades for whats his name in colorado. Then maybe another Leddy type falls in their lapp. Maybe they are in first place around christmas (just play along)...then maybe tavares says "I want to be here long term". As of now he doesnt or he would sign a contract. For instance he is risking being traded at any moment by not signing. If being a islander was very important to him...or 100 million was important to him...he would sign. But he doesnt want a contract as of today. So obviously something else is important to him besides 100 million or the islanders.