John Tavares - Generational UFA

[Ainec]

Ok in my defence I do not watch the Islanders unless they play the Habs, Stars or Flames but is he really Sid calibre or does he just look really, really good because of the deficiencies on the Islanders? Genuine question, like I said I don’t see him often enough to form an opinion. What outstanding thing have I missed?

Sid calibre??

 

[CalgarySnow]

That’s what everyone seems to be implying, he’s god’s gift to centres

 

[Ainec]

That’s what everyone seems to be implying, he’s god’s gift to centres

i wish you were here for brad richard's sweepstake

 

[Ainec]

one of the best UFA signing in history: Zdeno Chara
7.5M cap 44M cap ceiling with the Boston Bruins at the age of 29
prorates to
13.63M 80M cap ceiling for John Tavares at the age of 27

 

[zeke]

so I'm assuming then Matthews isn't elite either

oh he is.

 

[Regal]

one of the best UFA signing in history: Zdeno Chara
7.5M cap 44M cap ceiling with the Boston Bruins at the age of 29
prorates to
13.63M 80M cap ceiling for John Tavares at the age of 27

While I agree with the general sentiment of your thread, I don't think the prorated value is comparable to the same situation. The cap at the time kept rising much quicker than in recent years, and mid level players weren't being paid nearly as much relative to stars

 

[Ainec]

While I agree with the general sentiment of your thread, I don't think the prorated value is comparable to the same situation. The cap at the time kept rising much quicker than in recent years, and mid level players weren't being paid nearly as much relative to stars

You don't need to overpay for mid level players. The league is getting younger and elc rookies are just as adequate

 

[Regal]

You don't need to overpay for mid level players. The league is getting younger and elc rookies are just as adequate

I agree, but a lot of teams already have those contracts on the books

 

[Dogewow]

Tavares is 27, a max contract brings him to 34.

Rick Nash is currently 34. Bouwmeester 34. I wonder what the salary cap will be in 2025?


Would you take 5 1st round picks for your Jack Eichel? No. You keep Eichel's 8 year 80M. Now, Toronto Boston Tampa etc are gunning to get a player on the level of Eichel (currently) without having to win a lottery, give up 5 1st rounders, or have a historically crap season. I think I know which deal is good.

Tavares 12-14M + putting up with the final 2 years >>> tanking and hoping you win the lottery to draft an Eichel level player

Yes, because Jack Eichel is younger, and is very unlikely to see a drop in his play over the course of his current contract. If you asked me this when Eichel was 27 or 28, then I'd have to stop and think about his career trajectory moving forward (though 10 million is a little bit easier to swallow than 14 million). In addition, I don't think Tavares is worth the money you're suggesting and really very few players in this league are worth max contracts outside of a select few.

You're mocking the very point you're advocating for by criticizing GM's for handing bad contracts like candy, yet promoting handing out max contracts to players that don't deserve them. Guys like Tavares may be important pieces for a franchise, but that doesn't mean that they're worth a 14 million per year contract that a GM offers them.

I think the biggest takeaway any fan can learn from July first is that a lot of stupid things are done on this day because the market demands it, and that a lot of major free agent signings don't end up working out for a team in the long run. Not always a good way to build your franchise.

 

[Ainec]

Yes, because Jack Eichel is younger, and is very unlikely to see a drop in his play over the course of his current contract. If you asked me this when Eichel was 27 or 28, then I'd have to stop and think about his career trajectory moving forward (though 10 million is a little bit easier to swallow than 14 million). In addition, I don't think Tavares is worth the money you're suggesting and really very few players in this league are worth max contracts outside of a select few.

You're mocking the very point you're advocating for by criticizing GM's for handing bad contracts like candy, yet promoting handing out max contracts to players that don't deserve them. Guys like Tavares may be important pieces for a franchise, but that doesn't mean that they're worth a 14 million per year contract that a GM offers them.

I think the biggest takeaway any fan can learn from July first is that a lot of stupid things are done on this day because the market demands it, and that a lot of major free agent signings don't end up working out for a team in the long run. Not always a good way to build your franchise.

your justification here is exactly why this thread is necessary.

 

[LeapOnOver]

*let's just say he doesn't pull a Stamkos

I made a list of the top free agents since Ilya Kovalchuk (when salary cap was 59.4M).

You pay for top tier elite talents like Kovalchuk, Suter, and Tavares. You stay away from Richards, Okposo, Lucic, Ladd, Eriksson, Beleskey (no hindsight to this). And you manage to sign Niskanen, Stralman, Green to reasonable contracts because stupid GMs spent their wad elsewhere. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that teams should throw out huge $ at quality free agents (unicorns, but here he is) and make it work to their benefit.

Tavares is a top 10 center. And if you really want to be in the minority on it, a top 15 C. Unlike the other top free agents on this list he is on the younger side of entering free agency. On top of that, he has little injury history and no character defect.

I roll my eyes at anyone implying they should not sign Tavares as a free agent because of cap implications and having holes elsewhere on the roster. Clueless! Pay the man 8x14M+ and celebrate if you get him for less.

2018 80M salary cap
Tavares

2017 75M
Kevn Shattenkirk 4 year 26.65m
Alexander Radulov 5 year 31.25m
Karl Alzner lol
Justin Williams

2016 73M
Kyle Okposo lol
David Backes lol
Milan Lucic lol
Andrew Ladd lol
Loui Eriksson lol

2015 71.4M
Mike Green 3 year 18M
Matt Beleskey lol
Mike Ribiero lol
Cody Franson lol

2014 69M
Matt Niskanen 7 year 40.25M
Ryan Miller 3 year 18M
Anton Stralman 5 year 22M

2013 64.3M
Paul Stastny 4 year 28M

2012 60-70.2M
Ryan Suter 13 year 98M
Zach Parise 13 year 98M

2011 64.3M
Brad Richards 9 year 60M

2010 59.4M salary cap
Ilya Kovalchuk 17 year 102M contract after turning down 12 year 101M from Atlanta

edit: adding Chara

one of the best UFA signing in history: Zdeno Chara
7.5M cap 44M cap ceiling with the Boston Bruins at the age of 29
prorates to
13.63M 80M cap ceiling for John Tavares at the age of 27​

How come no LOL for Brad Richards? His contract hasn't even expired...that's a lol!!

 

[Ainec]

How come no LOL for Brad Richards? His contract hasn't even expired...that's a lol!!

Rangers signing, lead them to the ECF and the finals then contract bought out

Hasn't hurt the Rangers at all. 90m is typical spending for them

 

[LeapOnOver]

Rangers signing, lead them to the ECF and the finals then contract bought out

Hasn't hurt the Rangers at all. 90m is typical spending for them

Well if you are going to put it in terms of teams that spend money then you can eliminate most of those players. Very few teams are on a budget.

 

[Ainec]

Well if you are going to put it in terms of teams that spend money then you can eliminate most of those players. Very few teams are on a budget.

we are watching eriksson ladd and lucic contracts play out, which is the lol factor

the people saying JT is "overpaid" at 11m needs more to think more critically.

Kopitar was said to be overpaid at 10m.. If Kings had let Kopitar walk who are they bringing in to fill that cap space?

Are they going to trade for two 5m players? That will cost them assets such as a bluechip and first rounder. More likely they sign 2 Ladd type players.


Also let's use Boston for example. That team is a cup contender with their window opened up due to McAvoy, Debrusk and co. I don't think they were offering Tavares 14m.. But if they did it would mean moving Krejci and Backes at a cost of no more than a pick (honestly think they can even get assets back).

JT + Forsbacka-Karlsson/Cehlarik >> Krejci and Backes

 

[Bustedprospect]

Agreed Tavares is a great signing. He will only be 34 years at the end of a contract. Durable and have played 95% of his games in the NHL.

He could change a franchise the way Chara did.

 

[Holymakinaw]

So a really good player is going to get paid handsomely?

You're right. That IS unprecedented.

 

[Seanaconda]

Sid calibre??

The answer is no, he is however a great center but not crosby level great

 

[trick9]

Always thought you should stay away from top UFA's that don't drive the play themselves, but are complimentary players. They are often guys that are coming from great situations that are made for them to thrive in, and then some team signs them and suddenly expecting them to drive their own line which just often fails miserably. Especially when thinking about wingers.

 

[Seanaconda]

Always thought you should stay away from top UFA's that don't drive the play themselves, but are complimentary players. They are often guys that are coming from great situations that are made for them to thrive in, and then some team signs them and suddenly expecting them to drive their own line which just often fails miserably. Especially when thinking about wingers.

Weird post for a tavares topic when he has basically made a bunch of guys look like star players throughout the years ,

He isn't a crosby talent but I think he compliments other players better than crosby does ,( other than grinders ) and he drives his own lines

 

[paragon]

He didn't want to stay in Atlanta.

The years were mostly irrelevant anyway, because I don't think he planned on playing till the end. They were just there to take the cap hit down.

Just like Hossa.

 

[LeafFever]

This is so good for the NHL. When is the last time they got such great publicity in the summer like this?

 

[trick9]

Weird post for a tavares topic when he has basically made a bunch of guys look like star players throughout the years ,

He isn't a crosby talent but I think he compliments other players better than crosby does ,( other than grinders ) and he drives his own lines

That post had very little to do with Tavares and more to do with the UFA topic.

 

[LeapOnOver]

we are watching eriksson ladd and lucic contracts play out, which is the lol factor

the people saying JT is "overpaid" at 11m needs more to think more critically.

Kopitar was said to be overpaid at 10m.. If Kings had let Kopitar walk who are they bringing in to fill that cap space?

Are they going to trade for two 5m players? That will cost them assets such as a bluechip and first rounder. More likely they sign 2 Ladd type players.


Also let's use Boston for example. That team is a cup contender with their window opened up due to McAvoy, Debrusk and co. I don't think they were offering Tavares 14m.. But if they did it would mean moving Krejci and Backes at a cost of no more than a pick (honestly think they can even get assets back).

JT + Forsbacka-Karlsson/Cehlarik >> Krejci and Backes

Oh, I'm not arguing the JT side at all. It's proven you need guys like that, even more than 1 to win a cup. Contracts look bad at the end, but to win a cup owners gladly eat all that. As an Islander's fan I won't be upset if JT goes north of 12.5m. Doesn't stop me from thinking that's about all he's worth, but if he gets more I'll have no regrets even if we never win a cup during his tenure and he's garbage in year 6,7,8 because in the end i'll know he was absolutely necessary to try for a cup.

 

[Ainec]

Couture 8x8 but according to some people's logic.. it's a bad deal. I'm sure San Jose will do better playing hard ball with their best forward. They can definitely replace him when he walks (not)

 

[Hockeyholic]

Dreger is reporting that Taveras Will sign with one of the teams he met.