Tribute John Tavares Discussion Thread

[LeafsNation75]

This is extremely accurate.

It was always puzzling to me that the Leafs would sign Tavares when they had one of the best, young, offensively-gifted emerging teams. Then, I was absolutely floored when they named Tavares captain over Matthews.

This would be like the Pens or Hawks bringing in a veteran player who accomplished nothing in their career and naming them captain over Crosby or Toews when they were young.

The Leafs looked awesome when Rielly, Matthews, Marner and Nylander hit the scene. They had an amazing, young core. Matthews, Marner and Nylander thought this was their team--then suddenly here comes Tavares, with the 2nd highest cap hit in the NHL behind McDavid--entering the picture and being handed the C. Did anyone think the young stars would give the Leafs a discount after they paid Tavares all that money?

And like you said--what has Tavares won to warrant that type of treatment? It's not like the young Leafs were bringing in Mark Messier with 5 Cups on his fingers to lead the team a few years until Matthews was ready.

This team belonged to the homegrown kids. Matthews should have been captain. Tavares' money should have been spent on defense, grit and depth.

What about all the people who said if you have the chance to sign someone like Tavares you take that chance.

I mean remember how 2 years before the Leafs had talked to Steven Stamkos about signing with them when he almost became a UFA. However one major difference is Auston Matthews and Mitch Marner had not yet played a single NHL game and William Nylander had only played 22 games at that point. Plus the Leafs had also just finished last place overall and it's how they got the best odds in the draft lottetry to get Matthews.

Now I personally believe that Stamkos had never intended to leave Tampa and wanted the experience of meeting with the Leafs, because he had re-signed with them later that same day after their meeting. Still let's say in a hypothetical situation Stamkos wanted to play for the Leafs, would signing him at that time been a mistake?

 

[LeafsNation75]

This team needs a hard ass like babs... firing him was probably the right move, the team seemed to have quit on him. Problem was bringing in a rookie players coach with no experience. He should have brought in a nother veteran coach, and maybe the young leafs would get that the nhl isnt a cake walk. Babs may not be likeable, but expectations remain with all coaches.

Who knows if he would want the job, but what if the Leafs fire either Hakstol or Brewer and offered that job to Bruce Boudreau, would he be a good assistant coach with his experience? I know he's said coaching the Leafs was a dream of his, however that was to be the head coach and not an assistant. I mean both Hakstol and Brewer weren't selected by Keefe, although if one had to go I think it would be Hakstol because I think it was Babcock who selected him to be hired.

 

[TeddyBare]

Good Player don't get me wrong

Just not worth the cap hit, and nobody could convince me otherwise.

 

[Antropovsky]

and gd i know fighting isnt big anymore but could 1 of these overpaid nerds sack up and take one for the team?

Did you miss the conference where Dubas almost teared up saying he could never ask anyone of his players to go out and fight someone?

 

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What about all the people who said if you have the chance to sign someone like Tavares you take that chance.

Who are those "people"? Fans? Media? Look--Tavares is a very good hockey player, no doubt. But his signing never made sense for the Leafs, let's be honest. The Leafs were gifted the lottery pick for Matthews. They already had one of the best young cores. All of their kids still remained unsigned and players like McDavid, Draisaitl and others were setting the market.

The Leafs were just coming off an impressive playoff performance where they overachieved, made it into the playoffs, and gave the Caps all they could handle. The Leafs fell short for ONE reason only--their defense was not good enough. They had the offensive firepower and their goaltending was solid. They also had some grit up front with Kadri and Kapanen, etc. They needed TWO rock solid defensemen and maybe another real good depth forward to take the next step. And, most importantly, they needed to get their kids under contract. Instead, they focused their entire offseason on signing John Tavares and making everything about him--the videos with him in the Leafs pajamas, the media circus--everything was Tavares, Tavares, Tavares. You don't do that when you have an up-and-coming team headlined by Matthews, Rielly, Marner and Nylander. The signing didn't make sense from day one--not for this Leafs team.

I mean remember how 2 years before the Leafs had talked to Steven Stamkos about signing with them when he almost became a UFA. However one major difference is Auston Matthews and Mitch Marner had not yet played a single NHL game and William Nylander had only played 22 games at that point. Plus rhe Leafs had also just finished last place overall and it's how they got the best odds in the draft lottetry to get Matthews.

That's exactly right. Teams that need to sign a player like Tavares are teams with no young core, lacking star power, or a need to sell tickets. In a cap world, you need to take care of your talent first--especially when you have elite, young talent like Matthews, Marner and Nylander.

Now I personally believe that Stamkos had never intended to leave Tampa and wanted the experience of meeting with the Leafs, because he had re-signed with them later that same day after their meeting. Still let's say in a hypothetical situation Stamkos wanted to play for the Leafs, would signing him at that time been a mistake?

At that time, not sure. But, like you said, that summer the Leafs weren't coming off a miracle run and were clearly pacing ahead of schedule. Anyone with two eyes could see that the LAST thing the Leafs needed was another offensive star. They needed defense, depth and more grit. In the same situation--yes, signing Stamkos would be a problem.

And, if the Tavares signing wasn't bad enough, they named him captain. I'm sorry, but that's a slap in the face to Matthews. Then they also traded for Barrie--ANOTHER offensive-minded player. I literally have no idea what the Leafs were thinking with these moves? We're they hoping they would be all offense and just win multiple Cups by beating teams 9-6 every night? It doesn't work that way. Shanahan should've known better.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Who are those "people"? Fans? Media? Look--Tavares is a very good hockey player, no doubt. But his signing never made sense for the Leafs, let's be honest. The Leafs were gifted the lottery pick for Matthews. They already had one of the best young cores. All of their kids still remained unsigned and players like McDavid, Draisaitl and others were setting the market.

I remember hearing comments from the media at how if John Tavares was interested since he only meet with Toronto, San Jose, Tampa Bay, Dallas, Boston and the Islanders, they should do everything possible to make that happen because it's rare when a player like him makes it to July 1st and becomes a UFA.

 

[LeafsNation75]

At that time, not sure. But, like you said, that summer the Leafs weren't coming off a miracle run and were clearly pacing ahead of schedule. Anyone with two eyes could see that the LAST thing the Leafs needed was another offensive star. They needed defense, depth and more grit. In the same situation--yes, signing Stamkos would be a problem.

Maybe I'm wrong but I think you miss read what I was saying. In the summer of 2017 the Leafs were coming off that miracle run of making the playoffs which no one thought would have happened going into that season and that's is when Lou Lamoriello signed Patrick Marleau.

It was June 29, 2016 when they meet with Steven Stamkos to see if he wanted to sign in Toronto as a UFA. I remember the date since that was the day when Montreal traded P.K. Subban to Nashville for Shea Weber. Anyway that was the same day when Stamkos meet with the Leafs and later re-signed with the Lightning. So like I said before Toronto had just drafted Auston Matthews 1st overall so he had 0 NHL experience and it was the same for Mitch Marner who also had 0 NHL experience.

 

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I remember hearing comments from the media at how if John Tavares was interested since he only meet with Toronto, San Jose, Tampa Bay, Dallas, Boston and the Islanders, they should do everything possible to make that happen because it's rare when a player like him makes it to July 1st and becomes a UFA.

Yes, that's an emotional reaction. It's a fantasy hockey--or at the very least--a non-cap mentality. But did the Leafs ever think what signing Tavares would do to the kids? How it would affect their ability to sign their kids to cap-friendly deals? How making this "his team" would trickle down through the in-house core? Tavares was a luxury for the Leafs, not a need. I'll describe it this way...

You and your wife get married and you both have two awesome sports cars. Then you have two kids but you still have two sports cars--great cars but not practical to fit two extra kids safely. So you decide to go car shopping one day... and Porsche is having an amazing sale. The sale is so good, everyone is saying, "you need to buy a Porsche!!" So you and your wife get the Porsche, and now you have another awesome sports car but you still don't have a vehicle that's good for the family and to take a summer vacation. That was the Leafs with Tavares. Instead of shopping for a practical SUV--which is what they needed--they were seduced by the Porsche because everyone wanted it and it was bright an shiny. It is a great car, but not what you and your wife need at the time.

All of that said--if the Leafs truly felt they needed Tavares--they should have had a solid "Plan B" in line to move out Nylander (or sell high on Marner) to address D and depth. It's one thing if you look at is as, "Tavares is equal to Marner, so we'll use Marner to get us the other pieces we need" but the Leafs didn't do that. They didn't have a plan other than to throw their hat in the ring and offer Tavares an 11 mil cap hit.

 

[mapleleaf979]

Tavares has the heaviest skates in the NHL, each one weighs 75 lbs.

Where is the heart and soul of this team at? The one with playoff wounds and the scars of bad times @ 43 NAZEM KADRI. We love and miss u NAZEM <3.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Yes, that's an emotional reaction. It's a fantasy hockey--or at the very least--a non-cap mentality. But did the Leafs ever think what signing Tavares would do to the kids? How it would affect their ability to sign their kids to cap-friendly deals? How making this "his team" would trickle down through the in-house core? Tavares was a luxury for the Leafs, not a need.

Yes I completely agree that Dubas knew he would still have to re-sign Matthews and Marner 1 year from the time Tavares was signed and Nylander was already an RFA.

However another problem was the Leafs had signed Patrick Marleau 1 year earlier and that was done by Lou Lamoriello when he was the General Manager. The moment he signed and it was announced as a 3 year contract, it was both Leafs fans and the media who said that 3rd year will come back to haunt them.

Nothing like that was said about Tavares when he signed, despite his being longer at 7 years and $11 million AAV.

Finally in July 2017 1 year before Nylander would have become an RFA I remember hearing how Lou Lamoriello tried to sign him to a contract extension since he was eligible to do that and for whatever reason he couldn't get him to do that.

 

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However another problem was the Leafs had signed Patrick Marleau 1 year earlier and that was done by Lou Lamoriello when he was the General Manager. The moment he signed and it was announced as a 3 year contract, it was both Leafs fans and the media who said that 3rd year will come back to haunt them.

I don't disagree. That said--and this is just my opinion--I believe there was a disconnect between the way Lou wanted to run the team and the way Dubas believed it should be run "if he ever had the keys to the castle." It's my opinion that Lou looked at this team and saw his future core of Matthews, Marner and Nylander--and wanted to bring in a vet like Marleau to show them how to be professionals and conduct themselves in practice and off the ice. Lou saw Marleau as a mentor, but knew the eventual leadership needed to come from within the homegrown core--so he used Marleau as a piece to prepare them.

Dubas and/or Shanny, or both, were seduced by Tavares and strayed from the plan to go all-in on him. I don't think Lou, in his heart, was in favor of straying from the plan, and putting all his chips in for Tavares. If so, you don't bring in a Marleau to help the kids--you just wait a year and get Tavares. There's no coincidence that Lou left and Dubas was handed the keys. I believe Lou, had he stayed in control, had every intention of watching Matthews lead the team as the next Maple Leaf captain. The Tavares signing flipped everything on its head.

Nothing like that was said about Tavares when he signed, despite his being longer at 7 years and $11 million AAV.

Depends on who you ask. I was very vocal about it since day one. And one of my buddies lives in Toronto--and is a Leaf's lifer--and he said the same thing. The Leafs needed to spend their money on D, depth and character--not Tavares.

Finally in July 2017 1 year before Nylander would have become an RFA I remember hearing how Lou Lamoriello tried to sign him to a contract extension since he was eligible to do that and for whatever reason he couldn't get him to do that.

I'm not 100% sure but I believe Nylander was in no rush to re-sign because he was worried that once the Leafs had him on a deal with term, they could use him as a valuable trade chip... and he did not want to be traded. I remember hearing on the radio that the Nylander camp made Shanahan give him "his word" that William would NOT be traded if he signed a new deal. Knowing Lou, he would never give those guarantees because he may need to one day go back on it. Lou was a veteran with an outstanding resume and knack for building winners--everything he did was calculated--multiple steps ahead.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Dubas and/or Shanny, or both, were seduced by Tavares and strayed from the plan to go all-in on him. I don't think Lou, in his heart, was in favor of straying from the plan, and putting all his chips in for Tavares. If so, you don't bring in a Marleau to help the kids--you just wait a year and get Tavares. There's no coincidence that Lou left and Dubas was handed the keys. I believe Lou, had he stayed in control, had every intention of watching Matthews lead the team as the next Maple Leaf captain. The Tavares signing flipped everything on its head.

So how do you explain the Islanders hiring Lou to take over as President of Hockey Operations and after that was made official he than fired Garth Snow to also become their GM, because their main goal was to re-sign Tavares. Hell 5 days before they even hired he was already talking to Tavares about re-signing with the Islanders.

I also think even if Lou had remained in Toronto as their GM he would still go after Tavares and try to get a meeting with him like we saw on TV when both TSN and Sportsnet sent their reporters to stand outside his agency office in Los Angeles. I mean since he meet with and wanted to sign Steven Stamkos in 2016 when Lou was their GM coming off a season where they finished last place overall, why wouldn't he have attempted to sign Tavares in Toronto coming off making the playoffs 3 years in a row, where in 2018 and 2019 they played in back to back Game 7 in those years.

 

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So how do you explain the Islanders hiring Lou to take over as President of Hockey Operations and after that was made official he than fired Garth Snow to also become their GM, because their main goal was to re-sign Tavares. Hell 5 days before they even hired he was already talking to Tavares about re-signing with the Islanders.

I also think even if Lou had remained in Toronto as their GM he would still go after Tavares and try to get a meeting with him like we saw on TV when both TSN and Sportsnet sent their reporters to stand outside his agency office in Los Angeles. I mean since he meet with and wanted to sign Steven Stamkos in 2016 when Lou was their GM coming off a season where they finished last place overall, why wouldn't he have attempted to sign Tavares in Toronto coming off making the playoffs 3 years in a row, where in 2018 and 2019 they played in back to back Game 7 in those years.

Quite simple--and it goes back to what we were discussing earlier, re: Stamkos--the Islanders needed Tavares way more than the Leafs did, for various reasons. This is not about "Tavares the player"--it's about "Tavares the fit and with the salary." Tavares was an original Islanders pick. He was their captain and fan favorite. The Isles had Barzal and some nice kids like Pulock, etc., but losing Tavares for NOTHING was watching a ton of star power walk out the door. So, yes, of course Lou was trying to keep Tavares, and why wouldn't he? Do you think any GM wants to see their captain and best player leave for nothing?

The Leafs--with Matthews, Marner, Rielly and Nylander--cannot be compared to a Tavares-less Islanders team. The Leafs had to sign all of their own stars--they didn't have an extra 11 mil to throw around on luxury items. The Islanders had the money and Tavares was their player. Please tell me you see the difference? lol.

I don't think there's a chance on earth that Lou dedicates 11 mil in cap space to a UFA knowing he needs to sign his three biggest RFA's to monster deals.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Quite simple--and it goes back to what we were discussing earlier, re: Stamkos--the Islanders needed Tavares way more than the Leafs did, for various reasons. This is not about "Tavares the player"--it's about "Tavares the fit and with the salary." Tavares was an original Islanders pick. He was their captain and fan favorite. The Isles had Barzal and some nice kids like Pulock, etc., but losing Tavares for NOTHING was watching a ton of star power walk out the door. So, yes, of course Lou was trying to keep Tavares, and why wouldn't he? Do you think any GM wants to see their captain and best player leave for nothing?

The Leafs--with Matthews, Marner, Rielly and Nylander--cannot be compared to a Tavares-less Islanders team. The Leafs had to sign all of their own stars--they didn't have an extra 11 mil to throw around on luxury items. The Islanders had the money and Tavares was their player. Please tell me you see the difference? lol.

I don't think there's a chance on earth that Lou dedicates 11 mil in cap space to a UFA knowing he needs to sign his three biggest RFA's to monster deals.

I guess it's something we will never know and whatever we say now is because of hindsight.

However I still think if Lou is the Leafs GM after the 2018 season he would go after Tavares. I mean like I said before he attempted to try and sign Stamkos and got a meeting with him, long before we knew how good Matthews, Marner and Nylander would all be together and it was after Toronto finished last place overall.

 

[Nithoniniel]

I don't think there's a chance on earth that Lou dedicates 11 mil in cap space to a UFA knowing he needs to sign his three biggest RFA's to monster deals.

Every single GM in the league would try that, because not even trying to acquire an insane amount of asset value would be gross incompetence. It is quite possible that he would have moved one of the three young ones though, but not a chance that he would have ignored Tavares.

 

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he attempted to try and sign Stamkos and got a meeting with him, long before we knew how good Matthews, Marner and Nylander would all be together and it was after Toronto finished last place overall.

This can't be overlooked. And I think you answered your own hypothetical right there.

Look at the NY Rangers--they had no intentions on trading Lundqvist or Georgiev in October--but now that they see Shesterkin is, not only ready, but their best goaltender right now by far, they are looking to move one of their other guys. Situation dictates.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Every single GM in the league would try that, because not even trying to acquire an insane amount of asset value would be gross incompetence. It is quite possible that he would have moved one of the three young ones though, but not a chance that he would have ignored Tavares.

Can you imagine the reaction around here if Dubas decided he didn't want to meet with Tavares about talking to him to sign in Toronto.

For years we always heard how high valued UFA's wanted to avoid Toronto. Now most of the time they re-signed with their current team like Steven Stamkos in 2016 and Toronto wasn't also very good which is another factor.

Prior to Tavares I would say the last big name UFA Toronto signed and he was still in his prime was Curtis Joseph in July 1998. So I'm not including the time in August 2005 when they signed Eric Lindros who was no longer the player he once was.

 

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Every single GM in the league would try that, because not even trying to acquire an insane amount of asset value would be gross incompetence. It is quite possible that he would have moved one of the three young ones though, but not a chance that he would have ignored Tavares.

Well, for one, there's no way to prove that. Also, the Leafs were in a unique situation--more so than ANY other team, outside of the Jets--that their young team just overachieved and were now pacing ahead of schedule. And, just like the Jets, the Leafs had three pending RFA's that were no doubt going to commande HUGE money. So, let's just use some logic here--IF Lou was so determined to get Tavares--there's ZERO doubt in my mind that he would already have a plan to parlay one of his young forwards into other assets that made the Leafs a better "team." Lou is experienced and wise enough to know that once you go outside the organization to pay a UFA top dollar, you lose all leverage to convince your own players to take less "for the betterment of the team." Lou would have traded one of these forwards before letting all three of them take him to the shed after a Tavares signing. If you don't think so, I don't think you know Lou.

Lou was the architect of the legendary Devils machine. That team won championships built on defense, character, grit, systems play and goaltending. You really think Lou is going to front-load his team with 4 finesse forwards that tie up 50% of his cap? lol. Everyone and their mother knew the Leafs needed to improve their D and depth. But for some reason, Dubas focused on more offense in Tavares and Barrie. Lou would not have done this.

Also, nobody can give me a logical reason on why the Leafs would name Tavares captain and completely turn the team into "all about him" when the young players had hopes of being "the team." Didn't anyone consider team chemistry? My goodness, let Tavares be a silent leader but give Matthews the letter so the kids know this is still "their team."

 

[LeafsNation75]

Well, for one, there's no way to prove that. Also, the Leafs were in a unique situation--more so than ANY other team, outside of the Jets--that their young team just overachieved and were now pacing ahead of schedule. And, just like the Jets, the Leafs had three pending RFA's that were no doubt going to commande HUGE money. So, let's just use some logic here--IF Lou was so determined to get Tavares--there's ZERO doubt in my mind that he would already have a plan to parlay one of his young forwards into other assets that made the Leafs a better "team." Lou is experienced and wise enough to know that once you go outside the organization to pay a UFA top dollar, you lose all leverage to convince your own players to take less "for the betterment of the team." Lou would have traded one of these forwards before letting all three of them take him to the shed after a Tavares signing. If you don't think so, I don't think you know Lou.

Lou was the architect of the legendary Devils machine. That team won championships built on defense, character, grit, systems play and goaltending. You really think Lou is going to front-load his team with 4 finesse forwards that tie up 50% of his cap? lol. Everyone and their mother knew the Leafs needed to improve their D and depth. But for some reason, Dubas focused on more offense in Tavares and Barrie. Lou would not have done this.

Also, nobody can give me a logical reason on why the Leafs would name Tavares captain and completely turn the team into "all about him" when the young players had hopes of being "the team." Didn't anyone consider team chemistry?

Montreal and Philadelphia were two teams who wanted to meet with Tavares and they didn't make his final list.

Why Tavares didn't meet with Canadiens: 'I can only play for one team' - Sportsnet.ca

The Flyers wanted to sign John Tavares, but he didn’t want to come to Philadelphia

 

[Nithoniniel]

Well, for one, there's no way to prove that. Also, the Leafs were in a unique situation--more so than ANY other team, outside of the Jets--that their young team just overachieved and were now pacing ahead of schedule. And, just like the Jets, the Leafs had three pending RFA's that were no doubt going to commande HUGE money. So, let's just use some logic here--IF Lou was so determined to get Tavares--there's ZERO doubt in my mind that he would already have a plan to parlay one of his young forwards into other assets that made the Leafs a better "team." Lou is experienced and wise enough to know that once you go outside the organization to pay a UFA top dollar, you lose all leverage to convince your own players to take less "for the betterment of the team." Lou would have traded one of these forwards before letting all three of them take him to the shed after a Tavares signing. If you don't think so, I don't think you know Lou.

Lou was the architect of the legendary Devils machine. That team won championships built on defense, character, grit, systems play and goaltending. You really think Lou is going to front-load his team with 4 finesse forwards that tie up 50% of his cap? lol. Everyone and their mother knew the Leafs needed to improve their D and depth. But for some reason, Dubas focused on more offense in Tavares and Barrie. Lou would not have done this.

Since this is pretty much all about Lou, you should perhaps look at his track record in the cap era. It's abysmal, riddled with mistakes with just a few bright spots. I see absolutely no reason why he should be regarded as an authority of cap era management and team building. And it's not like he took any big steps to improve our defense while he was here either. As for contracts, I have no idea why you are so adamant in believing that the guy who gave out the Zajac, Marleau, Greene, and Nelson contracts would never get taken advantage of in contract negotiations. His cap era record for UFA deals is bad.

I'm sorry, but your post reads like a fanfic.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Also, nobody can give me a logical reason on why the Leafs would name Tavares captain and completely turn the team into "all about him" when the young players had hopes of being "the team." Didn't anyone consider team chemistry? My goodness, let Tavares be a silent leader but give Matthews the letter so the kids know this is still "their team."

I said before maybe Tavares was named captain because he had the experience of doing that with the Islanders.

I get your point about how Matthews, Marner, and Rielly were all there before and were actually drafted by the Leafs. However none of us were actually in their meetings when they discussed why it was Tavares instead of Matthews.

Also like I said before isn't naming Tavares the captain a better choice than the time Dion Phaneuf was named captain, after just playing 26 games with them in 2010 once he was traded from Calgary.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Since this is pretty much all about Lou, you should perhaps look at his track record in the cap era. It's abysmal, riddled with mistakes with just a few bright spots. I see absolutely no reason why he should be regarded as an authority of cap era management and team building. And it's not like he took any big steps to improve our defense while he was here either. As for contracts, I have no idea why you are so adamant in believing that the guy who gave out the Zajac, Marleau, Greene, and Nelson contracts would never get taken advantage of in contract negotiations. His cap era record for UFA deals is bad.

I'm sorry, but your post reads like a fanfic.

Look at the Lou's record with the Devils since the 2005 lockout.

From 2006 - 2010 they only made it as far as the 2nd round of the playoffs, plus in 2011 they missed the playoffs all together.

Yes I know they made the Stanley Cup Final in 2012, however that was considered to be a fluke. Although after 2012 they didn't make the playoffs until 2018 and by that time Lamoriello left for Toronto in July 2015.

Also in the salary cap era he's failed to re-sign his own high priced UFA's like Scott Niedermayer and Zach Parise when he was with the Devils. He failed to re-sign John Tavares as the Islanders President of Hockey Operations and GM and he falied to sign Steven Stamkos when he was the Maple Leafs GM.

Now before you say he re-signed Ilya Kovalchuk before he "retired" so he could return to Russia, that happened because I read how the Devils owner wanted to see that get done.

 

[LeafGrief]

Fine with JT as a player. He’s having a bad year but so is 75% of the team. Good player, still an elite centre.

Take the C off though. That belongs to Matthews. The most catastrophic season of pathetic efforts is happening on his watch and he has no answers. If he can’t do it, give it to someone who can actually lead the boys and make them look like they give a f***. And if Matthews can’t do it then just fold the f***in franchise tbh.

 

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I said before maybe Tavares was named captain because he had the experience of doing that with the Islanders.

I get your point about how Matthews, Marner, and Rielly were all there before and were actually drafted by the Leafs. However none of us were actually in their meetings when they discussed why it was Tavares instead of Matthews.

Well, let's look at this from the team perspective. Rielly, Matthews, Marner and Nylander were all drafted by the Leafs. Especially once Matthews was drafted, all the talk was about how their "young core was going to develop into a team that would one day contend for a Cup." The Leafs surprised everyone by making the playoffs and taking the Caps to the brink. They were the darlings of Toronto. Everything is great right? Then what happens next?...

1. The Leafs put all their focus on Tavares. It's all the city of Toronto and the hockey world talked about all summer. The Leafs pay him the 2nd highest cap hit in the NHL behind McDavid, even though he never won anything. It is what it is, when you play the UFA game, you overpay. Whatever.

2. Instead of addressing their weaknesses, the Leafs begin negotiations with their own kids, starting with Nylander. Nylander holds out.

3. Shanahan comes out and PUBLICLY tries to guilt trip his young RFA's by saying on TV, "our players are going to have to take a bit less if they want to stay in Toronto." Are you kidding me? The Leafs just went outside the team and had no problem giving a UFA the 2nd largest cap hit in the NHL but now all the young Leafs players needs to take less? Why didn't the Leafs tell Tavares they could only pay him 9.5 mil--take it or leave it? That's what Kucherov signed for--forgoing his UFA status, and he scored more than Tavares. Even Panarin signed for less A YEAR LATER but supposedly Tavares "wanted to come home to Toronto"? Then prove it--take 9.5 so the team can stay together and still have some money to address weaknesses. Shanahan made a huge mistake going public with that.

4. Nylander sits out a good chunk of the season then isn't nearly the same when he returns. It was a wasted season for him.

5. Leafs sign Matthews to huge deal--basically give him a blank check.

6. Leafs start the game of chicken with Marner--becomes a circus in the media. They give up their grit in Kadri for more offense in Barrie.

7. Leafs finally agree with Marner after it drags out--pay him top dollar. There was no discount from Marner, just like with Matthews and Nylander.

8. Leafs name Tavares captain over Matthews or Rielly (two homegrown players).

9. Leafs get off to bad start and fire a HHOF coach in Babcock--Dubas hires his buddy with no NHL experience.

It's not just one thing, but when you look at the decisions the Leafs have made since that great playoff run as a whole, the majority of them look bad. More than anything, it appears once they started focusing on Tavares they strayed from everything they were doing and the young core obviously didn't respond by giving discounts and playing as great as they can. I think both of those are undisputed facts at this point.

Also like I said before isn't naming Tavares the captain a better choice than the time Dion Phaneuf was named captain, after just playing 26 games with them in 2010 once he was traded Calgary.

What does one have to do with the other? Completely different managers, coaches, teammates, etc. I'm not saying naming Tavares captain is the worst thing in the world--it's just another time the Leafs put him above the young kids--when you have some great ones that you drafted yourself. Do you think for a second if the Pens or Hawks signed Tavares when Crosby, Malkin or Toews and Kane were a couple years in, they would have given Tavares the C over Crosby or Toews? IMO, all that did was put all the spotlight on Tavares again and a drafted kid like Matthews (or Rielly) was overlooked. It's like, "forget about all of you, this is John Tavares' team now--even though he never won anything and just got here."

 

[Dekes For Days]

Look at the NY Rangers--they had no intentions on trading Lundqvist or Georgiev in October--but now that they see Shesterkin is, not only ready, but their best goaltender right now by far, they are looking to move one of their other guys. Situation dictates.

Lol, what? Moving a goaltender when you have 3 is not the same as moving an elite forward when you have 3. You play 12 forwards every night. You only play 1 goalie.

Also, they haven't moved anybody yet. They've literally kept all 3.