The Sun: John-Michael Liles in limbo with Maple Leafs?

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

Problem is they won't bet $17 million worth of money that doesn't belong to them that a player who is in the pressbox, beat out by 3 AHL players, doesn't in fact suck.

You sure about that? There's always teams like the Isles who need to reach the floor. He's definitely tradeable.

 

[Kyle Doobas*]

Wow, with this avant garde logic of yours, all of a sudden that Scott Gomez trade is not Montreal's fault. It's Gomez's.

The Thornton trade is not Boston's fault. It was Marco Sturm's.

Nearly spit out my coffee.

That's some pretty avant-garde reading comprehension.

 

[Bomber0104]

Ah so we are ripping on the guy who has little to no affiliation with this team now? May I ask what does this accomplish? Seems kind of redundant now seeing how he has no control over our organization anymore. More or less just yelling for the sake of yelling.

What does anything here accomplish?

 

[Bomber0104]

That's some pretty avant-garde reading comprehension.

He just said basically, "it's not Brian Burke's fault Liles is playing bad". Makes no sense.

I say "it's Brian Burke's fault for spending $17 million of finite capspace for a player who had the potential to play this bad". Makes perfect sense.

 

[Bomber0104]

You sure about that? There's always teams like the Isles who need to reach the floor. He's definitely tradeable.

We'd have to eat salary obviously.

 

[Kyle Doobas*]

What does anything here accomplish?

A worthwhile discussion about something we all share an interest in..?

Sometimes it even works when the conversation doesn't end up being bogged down by the same handful of people starting the same arguments ad nauseam.

I say "it's Brian Burke's fault for spending $17 million of finite capspace for a player who had the potential to play this bad". Makes perfect sense.

No it doesn't, because any player in the league has the potential to play bad, particularly following an unpredictable head injury.

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

We'd have to eat salary obviously.

From a team that would like to reach the cap floor?

Liles' extension was 2 years too long but his contract won't be a hindrance.

 

[Mystifo]

What does anything here accomplish?

Well when I go to a GDT thread I tend to get all my news I want prior to the game. Injuries, Lineup, Starting Goalie. Also tend to find a working stream in there that I can watch the game on.

If I attend the Prospect thread they generally have updated charts with stats on current prospects and day to day updates on prospects injuries


so in itself coming to this board tends to make my life easier when I want to learn about my Maple Leafs. On top of that I can always get a good "Lol" on the Trade board so I get my jollys and hockey news all in one place. I mean if this place started carrying links to Video Games and hot chicks too I would never have to use Google.

 

[Bomber0104]

A worthwhile discussion about something we all share an interest in..?

Sometimes it even works when the conversation doesn't end up being bogged down by the same handful of people starting the same arguments ad nauseam.

Yes, but what does it accomplish?

I'm all for accomplishing things here.

 

[jughead42*]

We have 2 compliance buyouts if Liles isn't tradeable, so what's the big deal again? There have been plenty of guys traded out of town recently with bad contracts, it's pretty obvious the hf experts are only pretending to know what other NHL gm's will or will not do. Anybody remember Jason Blake and his untreadeable deal? Yeah, the guy was traded. Things must be good for the Leafs if the fans have nothing better to do than moan about non-existent cap issues caused by signing Liles to a reasonable extension. Durp.

 

[Cool Hand Luke]

Two Trades:

TO Phoenix:
JML
Colborne
MacArthur

To Toronto:
Keith Yandle

Phoenix replaces Yandle with a more cost effective PMD and PPQB, and grabs some help for the playoffs as well as a future.

Toronto gets #1A/#1B to take the pressure off of Phaneuf, as well as a vet to eat up minutes and show the kids the ropes.

Trade #2

To Detroit:
Carl Gunnarsson

To Toronto:
Riley Sheahan

Gives toronto another big bodied prospect. Gardiner replaces Gunnarsson.

Yandle - Gardiner
Phaneuf - Holzer
Fraser - Franson
Fraser -

 

[ErnieLeafs]

He just said basically, "it's not Brian Burke's fault Liles is playing bad". Makes no sense.

I say "it's Brian Burke's fault for spending $17 million of finite capspace for a player who had the potential to play this bad". Makes perfect sense.

Lol.

Every player in the league has the potential to have downtime in their production, so should teams not sign anyone??

And yes, it's Gionta's fault he didn't play well.

I can't believe you think an argument that states "it' an executive's fault that a player (a person with ability all his own) is to blame for said player not playing well", has any legs at all.... Hahah

I think the coffee should be spit out, it's a tad early to be on the liquor you've got in it.

 

[Bomber0104]

Well when I go to a GDT thread I tend to get all my news I want prior to the game. Injuries, Lineup, Starting Goalie. Also tend to find a working stream in there that I can watch the game on.

If I attend the Prospect thread they generally have updated charts with stats on current prospects and day to day updates on prospects injuries


so in itself coming to this board tends to make my life easier when I want to learn about my Maple Leafs. On top of that I can always get a good "Lol" on the Trade board so I get my jollys and hockey news all in one place. I mean if this place started carrying links to Video Games and hot chicks too I would never have to use Google.

Ok but this is a thread based on a speculative opinion piece on Liles...so obviously there is going to be some speculation and also evaluation based on who acquired and signed the player for $17 million.

 

[Bomber0104]

Lol.

Every player in the league has the potential to hav downtime in their production, so should teams not sign anyone??

And yes, it's Gionta's fault he didn't play well.

I can't believe you think an argument that states it' an executive's fault that a player (a person with ability all his own) is to blame for said player not playing well, has any legs at all.... Hahah

I think the coffee should be spit out, it's a tad early to be on the liquor you've got in it.

Okay, so just so I got this right.

It is not the Montreal GM's fault for trading McDonaugh and a 1st for Scott Gomez...and it is not the Bruin's GM fault for trading Thornton away for a bag of pucks...and it is not the Islanders fault for trading for Yashin...

Do I have you on record agreeing that a GM cannot be blamed for how the players he acquires play?

Are you actually 100% serious?

(Ps do a better job reading because I said nothing of Brian Gionta...maybe you are the one tipping the bottle)

 

[Kyle Doobas*]

Yes, but what does it accomplish?

I'm all for accomplishing things here.

accomplish  
ac·com·plish [uh-kom-plish]
verb (used with object)
1. to bring to its goal or conclusion; carry out; perform; finish: to accomplish one's mission.

As in, HFBoards enables us to accomplish our goal of having worthwhile discussions about a common interest (hockey).

 

[ErnieLeafs]

Okay, so just so I got this right.

It is not the Montreal GM's fault for trading McDonaugh and a 1st for Scott Gomez...and it is not the Bruin's GM fault for trading Thornton away for a bag of pucks...and it is not the Islanders fault for trading for Yashin...

Do I have you on record agreeing that a GM cannot be blamed for how the players he acquires play?

Are you actually 100% serious?

The player is the one who played well, and was overpaid for that production. The player is on the ice, and the one in control of how he plays.

The GM sits in the pressbox right?

That answers your question. GM's are attached to the deal, as they make the deal, but the player has the responsibility to play the game, and earn his money. It is ultimately on the player. You're blaming a GM for the way a player plays the game on the ice, and that's ridiculous.

Lol, the only logical thing you've pointed out is that I mixed up Gionta and Gomez. Great work, Watson.

 

[Bomber0104]

accomplish  
ac·com·plish [uh-kom-plish]
verb (used with object)
1. to bring to its goal or conclusion; carry out; perform; finish: to accomplish one's mission.

As in, HFBoards enables us to accomplish our goal of having worthwhile discussions about a common interest (hockey).

Okay well my idea of a good discussion involves having balanced opinions, positive and negative.

Without positive and negative charges, the universe wouldn't exist.

 

[Kyle Doobas*]

Okay well my idea of a good discussion involves having balanced opinions, positive and negative.

Sure, it's just boring when you have the same four or five posters giving the same negative opinion in seemingly every other thread.

Have you ever had a friend who just never, ever stops complaining? Even when you're having a grand old evening, he'll still go, 'You know what I hate?' And then go off on a tangent about something completely irrelevant to the current situation, purely in the interest of complaining? That's kind of what this is like.

 

[Al14]

Two Trades:

TO Phoenix:
JML
Colborne
MacArthur

To Toronto:
Keith Yandle

Phoenix replaces Yandle with a more cost effective PMD and PPQB, and grabs some help for the playoffs as well as a future.

Toronto gets #1A/#1B to take the pressure off of Phaneuf, as well as a vet to eat up minutes and show the kids the ropes.

Trade #2

To Detroit:
Carl Gunnarsson

To Toronto:
Riley Sheahan

Gives toronto another big bodied prospect. Gardiner replaces Gunnarsson.

Yandle - Gardiner
Phaneuf - Holzer
Fraser - Franson
Fraser -

If only we could get Yandle for that sorry package! Yotes lose that trade big time IMHO.

 

[hotpaws]

Two Trades:

TO Phoenix:
JML
Colborne
MacArthur

To Toronto:
Keith Yandle

Phoenix replaces Yandle with a more cost effective PMD and PPQB, and grabs some help for the playoffs as well as a future.

Toronto gets #1A/#1B to take the pressure off of Phaneuf, as well as a vet to eat up minutes and show the kids the ropes.

So the Yotes trade us a young 1st pairing D on a good contract for a pkg of **** and increase there payroll to boot .

Yea that sound like a great idea on there part .

 

[Bomber0104]

The player is the one who played well, and was overpaid for that production. The player is on the ice, and the one in control of how he plays.

The GM sits in the pressbox right?

That answers your question. GM's are attached to the deal, as they make the deal, but the player has the responsibility to play the game, and earn his money. It is ultimately on the player. You're blaming a GM for the way a player plays the game on the ice, and that's ridiculous.

So based on this ilk of logic:

Ottawa drafts Alex Daigle...not their fault. Daigle's fault.

Bryzgalov stinks it up on a $51 million contract. Not Philly's fault. Ilya's fault.

JFJ trades Rask for Raycroft. Not JFJ's fault. It's Raycroft's fault.

In summation, no GM can ever be accountable for the performance on the ice because he is not the one playing.

You actually believe this, correct?

 

[Bomber0104]

Sure, it's just boring when you have the same four or five posters giving the same negative opinion in seemingly every other thread.

Because it is a niche segment of the board...having criticisms (negative).

I have a good balance of positive and negative posts...you just don't realize the positives I post because they don't attract the same kind of hostility (obviously) as the negative ones do.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

So based on this ilk of logic:

Ottawa drafts Alex Daigle...not their fault. Daigle's fault.

Bryzgalov stinks it up on a $51 million contract. Not Philly's fault. Ilya's fault.

JFJ trades Rask for Raycroft. Not JFJ's fault. It's Raycroft's fault.

In summation, no GM can ever be accountable for the performance on the ice because he is not the one playing.

You actually believe this, correct?

Sens draft Daigle, and with good reason. Guy was a beast. One of the most naturally talented players drafted in a long time. The fact that he chose not to work hard, and chose not to dedicate himself to the game, was HIS PERSONAL CHOICE.

Byzgalov was signed to a huge contract, by a team that saw that kind of value, based on his prior production for another team. The GM was clearly on drugs when he made such a move, but is Holmgren in the net during practice and games? Is Holmgren to blame for Bryzgalov's inflated stats, playing on a defensive-based hockey team? Is Holmgren to blame for Bryzgalov's shortcomings? Last I checked, it's Ilya on the ice, not Paul.

It's JFJ's fault he was so short-sighted, sure. But is it his fault that Raycroft couldn't play to his previous levels. Did JFJ strap the pads on, and play with a Raycroft jersey on?

Why is it that you believe that a player is absolved from his play?
Really? It makes ZERO sense.

 

[hotpaws]

Sure, it's just boring when you have the same four or five posters giving the same negative opinion in seemingly every other thread.

I'm sorry i can't spin an aging D that we just sign to a long extension sitting in the pressbox as a positive .

And as Bomber said the positive posts get overlooked .

 

[Bomber0104]

Why is it that you believe that a player is absolved from his play?
Really? It makes ZERO sense.

Your avoidance of my question speaks volumes.

You obviously have a hard time standing by your opinion that no GM can ever be held accountable for the on-ice results.

Instead you prefer character assassinations (as if Liles, Komisarek, Armstrong, Connolly, Daigle, Bryzgalov, Raycroft, Gomez, Redden, Yashin, Sturm, or any other player that destroys your ridiculous idea, quit trying and competing on the ice).

I'm going to keep deconstructing this until you acknowledge that GM's are responsible for the players they put on the roster.