Joe Sakic - Record as Colorado Avalanche GM - Part II (Updates in First Post)

[RockLobster]

So tell me more on how Charlotte Graham is the problem?

 

[Freudian]

I don't know how much of Sakic's MO is based on what he picked up from Lacroix, Roy and what is his vision. But look at what's actually happened.

After everything spectacularly crashed and burn, all Sakic can say is he wants to get younger and faster. Over and over again. That's pretty much all we know of his plan.

Younger and faster like Avs were four years ago when he took over? It took him building a dung heap of a veteran filled team to realize the NHL is about speed? I don't think he really knows what works at the NHL level. He just found out what doesn't work because he found out the hard way.

Since it's impossible for Avs to get older and slower, I have no doubt his plan of getting younger and faster will be realized. I question if he knows how to make Avs good though.

 

[ABasin]

Dater said she has a lot more influence than people realize but ok, don't take it from me.

I think that focusing on Chantal/Charlotte/Christine/whomever this woman is, isn't useful. That's like blaming a bad dinner on the napkin beside the plate.

There is certainly something repeatedly fetid in how the Avs front office does business. My personal belief is that this is due to nepotism - and that nepotism is the first and foremost driver in the Avs management machine, and has been for years. All hires of note are based primarly upon nepotism, and any non-nepotistic personnel hired in positions of influence, are reporting directly to former nepotistic hires. It's still sinister, but one degree removed from top shelf sinister.

IMO, that's where the culture doesn't change when/where it needs to. The nepotism taint is still there.

That, and the current version of nepotism is painted 826 coats deep with ineptitude.

Bottom line: the nepotism must end. Preferably with an end to the ineptitude.

 

[bohlmeister]

The mere fact that we are debating who is/was really in charge highlights the fact that we lack/lacked strong leadership.

Bingo.

The fact of the matter is that until a person is brought in that has the knowledge, confidence, and a clear direction to carry a franchise, this organization will continue to spin its wheels.

 

[henchman21]

This tweet is relevant since we are talking about age. The Avs are younger than most think. The age has gone down with Lindholm too.

 

[RockLobster]

This tweet is relevant since we are talking about age. The Avs are younger than most think. The age has gone down with Lindholm too.

That damn Charlotte Graham! If it weren't for her, we could be the youngest team on that list!

 

[AllAboutAvs]

I know it is very early but I'm liking what the Avs have done so far with their later rounds. Since 2014 they have got guys like Lindholm, Nantel, Mironov, Boikov, Baron and Clurman. In the last two years I've liked all their picks from rounds 3-7 except Anderson. It's not not I don't like the Anderson pick itself as we really need dman that can play defense. I just hated were he was picked. I think that in the third round we could have gone with a player that had a higher ceiling. Hopefully he will prove me wrong and turn out as a very good pick. So far I really like the impact he is having on his team though. As for Clurman I am really looking forward to seeing his development in the next few years. I think this was a great pick.

Regardless I need to give praise to Sakic and his staff in finally turning around what was a dismal track record in the later rounds.

 

[AnimalMother73]

Cautiously optimistic but none have made an impact on the big club yet. Success would be if just one or two could.

 

[The Kingslayer]

The entire FO needs to be eradicated but we all know that wont happen. The next guy that replaces Joe wont be much better. And on and on this thing of ours goes

 

[Pokecheque]

Charlotte Grahame is the Vice President of Hockey Administration and has been a part of the Avalanche since Day One. I don't know how much or how little blame she should shoulder, but she's not a nonentity. She likely has played a large part in financial decisions and off-ice personnel decisions. She may not have had a direct impact but there's no way she should be free of blame (nor should she be free of praise for the good times as well).

And y'all need to spell it right, foolios. It's GRAHAME.

 

[RockLobster]

She has nothing to do with the on-ice stuff, that's why bringing her up is just...not a good way to defend one's argument.

 

[ABasin]

She has nothing to do with the on-ice stuff, that's why bringing her up is just...not a good way to defend one's argument.

Yeah, clearly this season is getting to us. I find it modestly implausible that ol' Charlotte is the one who scouted Colborne or made the call to draft Heard.

Again, I think the main problem with the organization is that they value nepotism over ability, when it comes to the hockey people. Sometimes the nepotism and the ability will happen to converge and it'll be OK. But inevitably, if ability isn't your main criteria, suffering is going to result at some point. Just the same as if one (hypothetically) purposefully didn't go out and get players with the most ability - that would almost certainly fail.

This organization seems perfectly OK with not employing the best most capable available hockey people in their organization (again, not talking about the players). This is the repetitive problem, IMO.

 

[GoNordiquesGo]

I think that focusing on Chantal/Charlotte/Christine/whomever this woman is, isn't useful. That's like blaming a bad dinner on the napkin beside the plate.

There is certainly something repeatedly fetid in how the Avs front office does business. My personal belief is that this is due to nepotism - and that nepotism is the first and foremost driver in the Avs management machine, and has been for years. All hires of note are based primarly upon nepotism, and any non-nepotistic personnel hired in positions of influence, are reporting directly to former nepotistic hires. It's still sinister, but one degree removed from top shelf sinister.

IMO, that's where the culture doesn't change when/where it needs to. The nepotism taint is still there.

That, and the current version of nepotism is painted 826 coats deep with ineptitude.

Bottom line: the nepotism must end. Preferably with an end to the ineptitude.

Other than Lacroix (son) and obviously Kroenke son, who else was hired because of family relationships (nepotism)?

 

[AnimalMother73]

He means it loosely. Most mgmt / exec hires have been someone familiar with the organization either a former player, relation or internal promotion. The strategy however real obviously has implications regarding the number of candidates considered and thus the overall quality of the hire.

 

[Bubba Thudd]

Who you know, not what you know.

 

[Foppa2118]

Other than Lacroix (son) and obviously Kroenke son, who else was hired because of family relationships (nepotism)?

Head Coach's

Granato - Eric Lacroix's friend
Quenneville - was assistant coach in the mid 90's
Granato - again...
Sacco - Billington's friend
Roy - ex player
Bednar - MacFarland's HC of his AHL team when in Columbus

Assistant Coach's

Jacques Cloutier - with team forever. I believe he was PL's friend though I'm not sure.
Rick Toccet - Granato's friend
Sylvain Lefebvre - ex player
Steve Konowalchuk - ex player
Adam Deadmarsh - ex player
Andre Tourigny - Roy's connection
Francois Allaire - Roy's old goalie coach

Development

Adam Foote - ex player
Brett Clark - ex player
Brian Willsie - ex player

Management

Francois Giguerre - was assistant GM for a long time, promoted to GM
Greg Sherman - numerous roles in the organization for a long time, eventually promoted to GM
Michel Goulet - Ex Nordique
Eric Lacroix - Pierre's son
Craig Billington - ex player
Patrick Roy - ex player
Joe Sakic - ex player




The problem isn't that they're nepotistic in and of itself. Most teams bring in the people they're connected to, and that they know well. The problem is that the Avs bring them in when they're inexperienced, while other teams bring them in after they've had some success somewhere else, and are further into their career in that role.

With the exception of Q and Allaire, that entire list was a rookie in the NHL doing that job. Many of them complete rookies at any level.

 

[Metallo]

Head Coach's

Granato - Eric Lacroix's friend
Quenneville - was assistant coach in the mid 90's
Granato - again...
Sacco - Billington's friend
Roy - ex player
Bednar - MacFarland's HC of his AHL team when in Columbus

Assistant Coach's

Jacques Cloutier - with team forever. I believe he was PL's friend though I'm not sure.
Rick Toccet - Granato's friend
Sylvain Lefebvre - ex player
Steve Konowalchuk - ex player
Adam Deadmarsh - ex player
Andre Tourigny - Roy's connection
Francois Allaire - Roy's old goalie coach

Development

Adam Foote - ex player
Brett Clark - ex player
Brian Willsie - ex player

Management

Francois Giguerre - was assistant GM for a long time, promoted to GM
Greg Sherman - numerous roles in the organization for a long time, eventually promoted to GM
Michel Goulet - Ex Nordique
Eric Lacroix - Pierre's son
Craig Billington - ex player
Patrick Roy - ex player
Joe Sakic - ex player




The problem isn't that they're nepotistic in and of itself. Most teams bring in the people they're connected to, and that they know well. The problem is that the Avs bring them in when they're inexperienced, while other teams bring them in after they've had some success somewhere else, and are further into their career in that role.

With the exception of Q and Allaire, that entire list was a rookie in the NHL doing that job. Many of them complete rookies at any level.

Spot on.

 

[ABasin]

The problem isn't that they're nepotistic in and of itself. Most teams bring in the people they're connected to, and that they know well. The problem is that the Avs bring them in when they're inexperienced,

Hence, they make these nepotism hires when there are obviously better candidates available. Or they keep their own long-term guys when there are obviously better candidates available.

If they keep Bednar into next season, that'd be yet another example.

And thanks for putting together the first official Nepotism List. I've been thinking about doing it, but didn't have the heart. I have a feeling we'll be adding to it...

 

[tigervixxxen]

David Oliver belongs on there somewhere too

 

[S E P H]

Head Coach's

Granato - Eric Lacroix's friend
Quenneville - was assistant coach in the mid 90's
Granato - again...
Sacco - Billington's friend
Roy - ex player
Bednar - MacFarland's HC of his AHL team when in Columbus

Assistant Coach's

Jacques Cloutier - with team forever. I believe he was PL's friend though I'm not sure.
Rick Toccet - Granato's friend
Sylvain Lefebvre - ex player
Steve Konowalchuk - ex player
Adam Deadmarsh - ex player
Andre Tourigny - Roy's connection
Francois Allaire - Roy's old goalie coach

Development

Adam Foote - ex player
Brett Clark - ex player
Brian Willsie - ex player

Management

Francois Giguerre - was assistant GM for a long time, promoted to GM
Greg Sherman - numerous roles in the organization for a long time, eventually promoted to GM
Michel Goulet - Ex Nordique
Eric Lacroix - Pierre's son
Craig Billington - ex player
Patrick Roy - ex player
Joe Sakic - ex player




The problem isn't that they're nepotistic in and of itself. Most teams bring in the people they're connected to, and that they know well. The problem is that the Avs bring them in when they're inexperienced, while other teams bring them in after they've had some success somewhere else, and are further into their career in that role.

With the exception of Q and Allaire, that entire list was a rookie in the NHL doing that job. Many of them complete rookies at any level.

Should any of you be surprised by this post? I mentioned like ten times in the past that the Kroenke's hold a seniority ideology. Ranging from business decisions to management to even season ticket holders. Think about how many times you heard about season ticket holders who've been going to the games for 5, 10, and 15 years. They're held in higher standards than those who've been ticket holders for 2 to 3 years.

If it's the right philosophy is a totally different story for another time, but I will say this, even if you hate it you should find another team. The reason is because Kroenke's Entertainment will not be changing any time soon.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Should any of you be surprised by this post? I mentioned like ten times in the past that the Kroenke's hold a seniority ideology. Ranging from business decisions to management to even season ticket holders. Think about how many times you heard about season ticket holders who've been going to the games for 5, 10, and 15 years. They're held in higher standards than those who've been ticket holders for 2 to 3 years.

If it's the right philosophy is a totally different story for another time, but I will say this, even if you hate it you should find another team. The reason is because Kroenke's Entertainment will not be changing any time soon.

Does any other season ticket hierarchy work any other way?

 

[S E P H]

Does any other season ticket hierarchy work any other way?

Why are you pinpointing one comment of a paragraph? My example is not just ticket hierarchy, they conduct this philosophy in every other aspect of their teams and businesses. I'm an Arsenal fan, we've had the same manager for 20 ****ing seasons and granted Stan wasn't for many of those. He has been owner for some of the worst in Arsenal's modern history, but it's honestly Wenger's job to lose.

 

[henchman21]

Does any other season ticket hierarchy work any other way?

A lot of the big college sports are more about money first, then seniority. There is some seniority basis, but with enough money, it can be overcome.

 

[Nalens Oga]

http://worldsoccertalk.com/2016/01/...me-the-laughing-stock-of-major-league-soccer/

 

[cgf]

A lot of the big college sports are more about money first, then seniority. There is some seniority basis, but with enough money, it can be overcome.

Not having lived in Denver or the area...although this looks like it's going to change in the coming months...I know nothing about the avs STH policies; but is this not the case? I.E. If I wanted to get season tickets for next season would I be unable to get one at any price if enough current STHers returned? Or do you just mean that seniority decides seat assignment / playoff ticket allotment / etc. ?