Player Discussion Jimmy Vesey Part II

[Pavel Buchnevich]

38 per 82 games for his career. An improved Chris Higgins is verging on a consistent 40 or more. I personally think thats way past optimistic. Vesey for the past two seasons has stayed pat at a rate right under 30, we are looking at about a 15 point increase per season for him to be that. I get your comparison stylistically, but I think it would be a poor man's Higgins. And thats kind of the point. That might've been the expectation at the time and it might've been completely valid, a guy who gives you mid 40's points, small chance for significantly more, small chance for significantly less, but we are at significantly less. Gonna take a lot to be an improved Chris Higgins at this point.

 

[NYR Viper]

38 per 82 games for his career. An improved Chris Higgins is verging on a consistent 40 or more. I personally think thats way past optimistic. Vesey for the past two seasons has stayed pat at a rate right under 30, we are looking at about a 15 point increase per season for him to be that. I get your comparison stylistically, but I think it would be a poor man's Higgins. And thats kind of the point. That might've been the expectation at the time and it might've been completely valid, a guy who gives you mid 40's points, small chance for significantly more, small chance for significantly less, but we are at significantly less. Gonna take a lot to be an improved Chris Higgins at this point.

Vesey has played 1 full season in the NHL. Why don't we give him a bit more time to see what he is or isn't?

 

[eco's bones]

Chris Higgins puts up his 52 points in his third season in the NHL which followed 2 full years in the AHL.

In 2007-2008 there were 19 NHL players who scored 80 or more points in the regular season. In 2016-17 there were 7. A 52 point player on many many teams is a first line player today. Higgins never rose above being a second line player and he was 7th in scoring on his team when he got his 52 and outpointed by two defensemen--Mark Streit (62) and Andrei Markov (58). A defenseman regularly putting up those kinds of numbers these days for several seasons is going into the Hall of Fame--yet it wasn't that big of a deal then and there's no way that either Streit or Markov are HOF'ers. The point is the game as it is today in 2017-18 compared to then is radically different and the comparable of Higgins (07-08) to Vesey (17-18) on straight production numbers is ridiculous.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

This weird Vesey vs. Buchnevich thing started because the poster who is pushing it has already made an expert determination that Vesey is a disappointment and Buchnevich is headed to stardom while their NHL careers are just beginning. And its due to this BS narrative that Vesey is stealing time from Buchnevich when they are moved up and down the lineup. Its silly stuff.

The comparison between these two players is silly to begin with - its like trying to compare a ferrari to an SUV. Difference strokes for different folks.

 

[True Blue]

Typically 24 year olds are close to finished products. The Rookie tag really does distort things, I think looking at player development by year in the league as opposed to age is very flawed. It makes some difference, but a player's age is a bigger factor.

24 year olds are hardly finished products. There is quite a bit of development left. Tack on the fact that one cannot compare 24 yer olds that have at least 3 years of NHL experience to a 24 year old playing in his second. And that is without even discussing AHL developmental time.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Typically 24 year olds are close to finished products.

That's insane. But it does fit your agenda.....

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

This weird Vesey vs. Buchnevich thing started because the poster who is pushing it has already made an expert determination that Vesey is a disappointment and Buchnevich is headed to stardom while their NHL careers are just beginning. And its due to this BS narrative that Vesey is stealing time from Buchnevich when they are moved up and down the lineup. Its silly stuff.

The comparison between these two players is silly to begin with - its like trying to compare a ferrari to an SUV. Difference strokes for different folks.

This is coming from you, leave me out of that propaganda. I made no mention of Buchnevich.

You try to push this because you can't properly defend Vesey the way you want to, so you have to try to discredit someone else based on something thats completely made up. If your argument is that weak, why not just shut your mouth instead of trying to discredit the strong argument? The prior opinions and stats are there for everyone to see, this has 0 to do with me, quit making it seem that way.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

This is coming from you, leave me out of that propaganda. I made no mention of Buchnevich.

You try to push this because you can't properly defend Vesey the way you want to, so you have to blame it on someone else based on something thats completely made up. If your argument is that weak, why not just shut your mouth instead of trying to make things up about others?

Lets get one thing straight, I am not trying to defend any narrative on a player. I think both Buchnevich and Vesey are young players that are coming along nicely, and I have no idea how their careers will pan out. I also know they are VERY different types of players

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Did you not post this?

This weird Vesey vs. Buchnevich thing started because the poster who is pushing it has already made an expert determination that Vesey is a disappointment and Buchnevich is headed to stardom while their NHL careers are just beginning. And its due to this BS narrative that Vesey is stealing time from Buchnevich when they are moved up and down the lineup. Its silly stuff.

If you think the opinions many have voiced about Vesey are specifically because of a competition with Buchnevich, I'd call that incredibly naive, but I don't believe anyone thinks that. Many can look at the expectations beforehand and the production so far, and not positively view his situation. You are trying to make me seem like some radical, but take me out of this for a second, I didn't fabricate his mediocre stats or others prior opinions, nor do I control the current opinions of the many who have voiced less than favorable opinions about him like Inferno, Silverfish, Machinehead, Capt McDonut, Bozle to name a few, many have. What is so radical about the views of these people or are all of them also just Vesey haters because of some rather non-existent competition with Buchnevich?

If you disagree with me, fine, I recognize there's another side of this and a lot of people have a positive view of him, but please don't try to shut down my opinion by trying to discredit me. There are many who share my opinion, some have more controversial opinions than me, and I am basing a lot on rather objective measures rather than subjective measures.

 

[eco's bones]

Vesey gets a big goal and then the shootout goal that wins the game and is the first star and has an important role in a comeback win and along comes this chorus of 'but he's not an NHL player. How could it be?' Maybe AV should have had everyone else even Staal and Kampfer take a shot in the shootout before Vesey? Maybe we should just give the game back? Would that make some people feel better? Even the goal he scores to tie the game in the third period--'it was all Nash'--somehow Vesey is the blind squirrel finding a nut. Blah-blah-f***ing-blah--'he's not as good as Matt 'f***ing' Puempel and barely as good as Tanner Glass' etc. etc. etc.--nothing but pissing and moaning even when we win.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

24 year olds are hardly finished products. There is quite a bit of development left. Tack on the fact that one cannot compare 24 yer olds that have at least 3 years of NHL experience to a 24 year old playing in his second. And that is without even discussing AHL developmental time.

Is JT Miller a finished product? If Vesey can become a top 9 player at this point then JT Miller can develop into an elite player

 

[Riche16]

I actually think the kid looks better this season and more consistent. Last year he was invisible at times.

Also, he showed leadership qualities after that game as someone above mentioned: "I was on the ice for 3 goals against prior to that so I just really wanted to help the team"

As someone mentioned he didn't screw up for those GA but took it upon himself to be better going forward. That's leadership.

I'd say he was coming along alright for someone in his second season at this level.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

I tend to agree with PB. Vesey should be nowhere near the top-9.

 

[Tawnos]

This weird Vesey vs. Buchnevich thing started because the poster who is pushing it has already made an expert determination that Vesey is a disappointment and Buchnevich is headed to stardom while their NHL careers are just beginning. And its due to this BS narrative that Vesey is stealing time from Buchnevich when they are moved up and down the lineup. Its silly stuff.

The comparison between these two players is silly to begin with - its like trying to compare a ferrari to an SUV. Difference strokes for different folks.

That narrative about their ice time goes back to last season and even saw light when Buchnevich wasn’t in good enough condition for the NHL game. The complaint was “why is Buchnevich benched or demoted and Vesey not? AV playing favorites!” Silly is the right word.

 

[True Blue]

Is JT Miller a finished product? If Vesey can become a top 9 player at this point then JT Miller can develop into an elite player

Sure

 

[kovazub94]

I tend to agree with PB. Vesey should be nowhere near the top-9.

Now or in the future? Because you just jumped in the discussion with this statement and literality no one is arguing for Vesey to be in top9 right now.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Is JT Miller a finished product? If Vesey can become a top 9 player at this point then JT Miller can develop into an elite player

Sure

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

That narrative about their ice time goes back to last season and even saw light when Buchnevich wasn’t in good enough condition for the NHL game. The complaint was “why is Buchnevich benched or demoted and Vesey not? AV playing favorites!” Silly is the right word.

This - and the notion that a player is strictly a top 6 or bottom 6 player and thats that is becoming sillier each season as well. The game is changing, yet these archaic designations remain the same.

 

[mrmovies779]

I thought Vesey had another strong game last night.Was strong with the puck,created some good opportunities for teamates.He seems to play better when he has Nash on the other wing.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I tend to agree with PB. Vesey should be nowhere near the top-9.

Vesey is not better than any of our wingers currently in the top-9. Kreider, Buchnevich, Zuccarello, Nash, Grabner, Fast are all better than Vesey.

 

[Inferno]

I thought Vesey had another strong game last night.Was strong with the puck,created some good opportunities for teamates.He seems to play better when he has Nash on the other wing.

He played maybe his best game since the start of last year in this game. He was pretty good, and most importantly his decision making was MUCH better.

 

[Rangers in 7]

Vesey is not better than any of our wingers currently in the top-9. Kreider, Buchnevich, Zuccarello, Nash, Grabner, Fast are all better than Vesey.

i thought he played very well, when hes on hes a much better option then fast

 

[will1066]

Vesey is not better than any of our wingers currently in the top-9. Kreider, Buchnevich, Zuccarello, Nash, Grabner, Fast are all better than Vesey.

But that doesn't equate to Vesey being bad. Hopefully, his game continues to improve. Last night he carried the puck well, with confidence, especially two very similar plays where he wheeled on his backhand with a defender on him, making tight turns and creating opportunities.

 

[Griffinbw]

Vesey vs. Buch doesn't need to happen. They can both play.

Just because buch is good doesn't mean Vesey has to be bad

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

i thought he played very well, when hes on hes a much better option then fast

I agree. Too bad it's only 5 games a year