Player Discussion Jimmy Vesey Part II

[Fitzy]

I don't care if he scored and had the shootout winner...he had a miserable game...how he got promoted is beyond me. Turnover machine . blind passes for rushes against and awful decisions with the puck...hate that he gets accolades for such an abysmal game.

Vesey's game reminds me of JT Miller's 3-4 years ago.

If he can simplify his game and get some good coaching, maybe he can turn it around like Miller did. I realize the age difference, but NHL experience matters.

Otherwise, 15 goals and 10 assists pace per season for a very one-dimensional player is not a great bargain. I'd take another Jesper Fast type on the 4th line than Vesey under those circumstances.

Still, we dont have a lot of wingers, so until someone can step in and do better, he is what we have available for the time being.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

Vesey's game reminds me of JT Miller's 3-4 years ago.

If he can simplify his game and get some good coaching, maybe he can turn it around like Miller did. I realize the age difference, but NHL experience matters.

Otherwise, 15 goals and 10 assists pace per season for a very one-dimensional player is not a great bargain. I'd take another Jesper Fast type on the 4th line than Vesey under those circumstances.

Still, we dont have a lot of wingers, so until someone can step in and do better, he is what we have available for the time being.

Vinny Letieri Winks

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

And Chytil.

Chytil got like 15 minutes of game time before being sent down. He's dominating the AHL, I think he deserved more of a chance to begin with. At this point, I'm not sure it makes sense to burn a season on his ELC and I don't trust AV to handle him, but he's a guy who probably should've played in our top 9 all season.

If we add up our NHL and AHL forwards, we could put together a pretty good top 12. The current NHL roster lacks a little forward depth and I'm not sure there's 12 top 12 guys, I think Chytil and Lettieri could really help out.

 

[Inferno]

I get why people are happy, and I actually liked a lot of how our team played..but Vesey infuriated me...and AV putting him out there, and then getting rewarded with a goal and a SO goal, is all the more infuriating because you KNOW that an inferior player will now get MORE minutes that he doesnt deserve over better players.

I like what Jesper Fasth is doing. I like what Grabner is doing. I like what Hayes, Miller, Nash, Zucc, KZB are doing.

Thats your top 9.

If you REALLY want to have Vesey in the lineup...if you REALLY feel like he's got some upside and want him to keep playing..then sure, put him on the 4th line..while I believe hes got no business in an NHL lineup at the moment, I do believe hes a better option than Carey who sucks, and Desharnais who also sucks. So sure..keep him there if you want. I think Boo and VL would be better options on the 4th and if you wanna do Boo VL and Vesey, then by all means, play them 8-10 mins, and if they get some good shifts in, all the better, if not, youre still developing some kids.

But dont tell me for 1 minute that Vesey deserves to play top 9 minutes...he doesnt. he doesnt deserve to play on the Power Play..and I really really really hope we are looking to trade him and use him as a chip to upgrade elswhere. I'm really thinking Vesey+ for Galchenyuk would be a good starting place for a deal for a team thats falling apart.

 

[kovazub94]

Did anyone say that this Vesey deserves to play over anyone currently in top9 on this team?

 

[Nickmo82]

I get why people are happy, and I actually liked a lot of how our team played..but Vesey infuriated me...and AV putting him out there, and then getting rewarded with a goal and a SO goal, is all the more infuriating because you KNOW that an inferior player will now get MORE minutes that he doesnt deserve over better players.

I like what Jesper Fasth is doing. I like what Grabner is doing. I like what Hayes, Miller, Nash, Zucc, KZB are doing.

Thats your top 9.

If you REALLY want to have Vesey in the lineup...if you REALLY feel like he's got some upside and want him to keep playing..then sure, put him on the 4th line..while I believe hes got no business in an NHL lineup at the moment, I do believe hes a better option than Carey who sucks, and Desharnais who also sucks. So sure..keep him there if you want. I think Boo and VL would be better options on the 4th and if you wanna do Boo VL and Vesey, then by all means, play them 8-10 mins, and if they get some good shifts in, all the better, if not, youre still developing some kids.

But dont tell me for 1 minute that Vesey deserves to play top 9 minutes...he doesnt. he doesnt deserve to play on the Power Play..and I really really really hope we are looking to trade him and use him as a chip to upgrade elswhere. I'm really thinking Vesey+ for Galchenyuk would be a good starting place for a deal for a team thats falling apart.

Why would Montreal trade anybody for a guy who borderline belongs in the league?

Surely they'd scout him, see what you see, and want nothing to do with him. They'd easily get a better return for Galchenyuk and all his issues elsewhere.

 

[WeRa]

I get why people are happy, and I actually liked a lot of how our team played..but Vesey infuriated me...and AV putting him out there, and then getting rewarded with a goal and a SO goal, is all the more infuriating because you KNOW that an inferior player will now get MORE minutes that he doesnt deserve over better players.

An inferior player is the first star of the match..
Vancouver Canucks vs. New York Rangers - Boxscore - November 26, 2017 - ESPN

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

An inferior player is the first star of the match..
Vancouver Canucks vs. New York Rangers - Boxscore - November 26, 2017 - ESPN

Voted by fans who see him score a goal and then the game winner in the shootout. The same fans would vote for Callahan every game even when he was shit (which was not uncommon)

 

[YoSoyLalo]

I guess your boy Buchnevich isn't a top 9 player either than and should be kicked off the team. His fragile body didn't allow him to play a full season and only recorded 20 points last year. But he gets a pass with your wacky reasoning right?

What an intentionally misleading posts. You sound like Sean Hannity.

 

[TheGortonConspiracy]

Patience, Vesey is improving, he will jump around in minutes all season, but he is a good player and he deserves the opportunity to keep improving at his current pace instead of the Torts/Kreider/Miller treatment.

 

[Jauffre]

Vesey is the new Glass for AV, playing him more than he should. But Vesey's been playing better hockey lately and now it's showing up on the boxscore.
Still would rather have him on the 4th line but let's see if he gets hot, & further builds confidence. Hopefully gets some good coaching too to help simplify his game and actually use his tools.
He's a decent skater when he's not losing balance easily, and he's strong. Has a formidable shot too when he's able to use it. The upside is there, let's all just hope he pans out to be a Top-6 regular by his 4th NHL season.

 

[Inferno]

i can not for the life of me believe how many people think hes playing better hockey of late...its unfathomable.

You see a few pucks go in the back of the net, and all of a sudden thats playing good hockey? No. Its not. Just because Henrik makes 10 highlight reel saves that bail his ass out from turnover after turnover does not mean he's playing a good game.

It means our effing goalie is playing a good game. I wish I had the time to break down every one of his shifts..I'd wager at least half of them have an egregious turnover or a horrible decision made. Puck on his stick..hes a really bad hockey player (right now).

That doesnt mean he always will be...i'm just evaluating what he is now.

The 1 good thing about him is that you can see he's got talent. Unlike Tanner Glass, you can see the kid has good hands, and a strong shot. So maybe if he starts thinking the game better he will start performing better.

Goals and assists arent the end all be all..those things are too dependent on wild swings of luck. Whats important is playing the right way, playing smart hockey. Vesey plays dumb hockey more often than now which leads me to a post about Kevin Hayes i'm going to make in a moment...

 

[nyr2k2]

I'm in a minority, clearly, but I think Vesey has "it"; it being that intangible element where he'll eventually get it and make it. Everyone is talking Miller, and I said the same thing about him. Some guys you can watch and even if their game looks ugly, you can see they have it. I think Vesey is one of those guys and he'll put it together.

 

[Ail]

I was a Miller has it guy, and supported him when he was Just Turnovers 90% of the time, but I don't get the same vibe from Vesey. I agree with Fitzy he looks like a 1 dimensional 4th liner and in that case, just give me another Jesper Fast who is a far more well rounded player.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I was a Miller has it guy, and supported him when he was Just Turnovers 90% of the time, but I don't get the same vibe from Vesey. I agree with Fitzy he looks like a 1 dimensional 4th liner and in that case, just give me another Jesper Fast who is a far more well rounded player.

Right now I don't see Vesey playing better than any of our top-9 wingers. He is a 4th line player.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Vesey > Fast

Fast is the perfect 4th line/PK player. Vesey has more offense/skill than Fast and should be on a better scoring line.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

Vesey > Fast

Fast is the perfect 4th line/PK player. Vesey has more offense/skill than Fast and should be on a better scoring line.

Vesey is not better than Fast. He might have more offensive upside but not an overall better player.


Vesey < Kreider Buch Nash Zucc Grabner Miller Zibanejad Hayes at bare minimum. So ignore he’s a top 9 player it’s barely. I’d rather him on the 4th line for chemistry reasons in the top 9

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Vesey is not better than Fast. He might have more offensive upside but not an overall better player.


Vesey < Kreider Buch Nash Zucc Grabner Miller Zibanejad Hayes at bare minimum. So ignore he’s a top 9 player it’s barely. I’d rather him on the 4th line for chemistry reasons in the top 9

I agree overall player Fast is better because of his defensive play. I could go back and forth with Vesey/Fast on the 3rd and 4th line truthfully. Whoever is playing better on any given night i'm happy with in that spot.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I agree overall player Fast is better because of his defensive play. I could go back and forth with Vesey/Fast on the 3rd and 4th line truthfully. Whoever is playing better on any given night i'm happy with in that spot.

So... Fast

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

I'm in a minority, clearly, but I think Vesey has "it"; it being that intangible element where he'll eventually get it and make it. Everyone is talking Miller, and I said the same thing about him. Some guys you can watch and even if their game looks ugly, you can see they have it. I think Vesey is one of those guys and he'll put it together.

I agree. I think he's coming along nicely. He's added a bit of physical play to his game. He's showing some grit. And he has the intelligence to go along with it.

Your comparison to Miller is a good one. Like Miller, Vesey is figuring out what kind of player he wants to be/needs to be.

 

[RangerBoy]

The Rangers need to know what they have in Vesey. His contract is up this summer. He is arbitration eligible. He is two years away from group III. Play him with actual NHL players and see what he can do. You know Gorton and AV have discussed the direction of the team. AV said Miller at center is the best option for the Rangers current roster. It’s impossible to acquire a center and the Rangers have a couple of young center options coming in next season. They move up Vesey moving Miller to center. The Rangers have a lot invested in Vesey.

 

[kovazub94]

I'm in a minority, clearly, but I think Vesey has "it"; it being that intangible element where he'll eventually get it and make it. Everyone is talking Miller, and I said the same thing about him. Some guys you can watch and even if their game looks ugly, you can see they have it. I think Vesey is one of those guys and he'll put it together.

You're not in minority. We are just not as vocal. ; )

 

[kovazub94]

I was a Miller has it guy, and supported him when he was Just Turnovers 90% of the time, but I don't get the same vibe from Vesey. I agree with Fitzy he looks like a 1 dimensional 4th liner and in that case, just give me another Jesper Fast who is a far more well rounded player.

Gotta to keep in mind where Miller was draft picked and where was Vesey. Same context but different parameters (Miller always had a higher upside).

 

[RGY]

Vesey is not the type of player who will stand out on his own on whatever line he is on. This was, or should have been, known by any fan at least going into this season if they had not know this going into last season. He needs to play with good players. His game elevates when he plays in the Top 9, when the play amongst he and his linemates is more even whether it is puck retrieval ability, leading a rush, board play, puck possession, positioning offensively and defensively, etc. Paul Carey is trash. Desharnais is a borderline 4th line center at this point. You saw it yesterday just like you did in the playoffs, especially the Ottawa series. Vesey was pretty visible and effective in the Ottawa series playing with better linemates. He seems to particularly play well when Nash is on the opposite wing. Nash is a player who can hold the puck on his stick and makes plays.

Fast has been great imo but he is the type of player with the way his game is that can be just as effective on the 4th line. He is not as skilled offensively, where the team or is line will benefit more when he is in the top 9. He won't hurt the line, but he won't help it either, at least not often enough to be in the top 9. Vesey can. I think you need to make this change and let it be for a few weeks Give Vesey that chance.

I also think Lettieri needs to be promoted, Carey needs to be sent to an abandoned island, and Desharnais needs to be a healthy scratch.

 

[silverfish]

Amazing the lengths we go to in order to defend our own players. I'd love to see the takes about Vesey if he was playing exactly the same except chose Boston over NYR. My gut says it'd be a lot of stuff like: "Looks like we didn't miss out on much!" and definitely not "He could be as good as JT Miller".