Jim Rutherford Needs to Go

[Beauner]

One could also say his clear direction is drastically overpaying marginal players while shipping off proven production that outperforms their contract.

Yeah Sheahan and Brassard were steals for what they brought. Which was *check notes*.....


nothing

 

[HandshakeLine]

Brassard was a failure. Reaves was a failure. The Hunwick signing was a failure from the get go. Johnson has been abysmal. The Gudbranson trade was a mistake. Maatta trade sucks because you waste a valuable asset because the Johnson signing has put you in a position where you need to move someone. Oleksiak was moved for no reason and Gudbranson (worse and more expensive) took his place. Hagelin for Pearson was such a mistake that Rutherford tried to trade back for Hagelin in the same season. Hunwick was so bad he needed to trade a good, young, fast Sheary to get rid of him. All of these moves were failures over the past two years.

Zubov for nothing. Failure. Naslund for Stojanov. GOAT worst trade. Never getting out of the 2nd round following 1992, despite having several first ballot hall of famers in their prime on the squad? Failure. Eddie O. Constantine. Hlinka. Kip Miller. The Jagr trade. Mironov for Murphy.

All of these were also horrible, and yet.... I can't seem to put my finger why you aren't making threads about how awful CP was.

 

[TimmyD]

Brassard was a failure. Reaves was a failure. The Hunwick signing was a failure from the get go. Johnson has been abysmal. The Gudbranson trade was a mistake. Maatta trade sucks because you waste a valuable asset because the Johnson signing has put you in a position where you need to move someone. Oleksiak was moved for no reason and Gudbranson (worse and more expensive) took his place. Hagelin for Pearson was such a mistake that Rutherford tried to trade back for Hagelin in the same season. Hunwick was so bad he needed to trade a good, young, fast Sheary to get rid of him. All of these moves were failures over the past two years.

Again a trade can be a good trade and still not work. It is entirely possible. That is the case in the Brassard deal. He didn't give up much and it was a good trade that just didn't work for whatever reason. Reaves I will say was a bad trade so that's one. Maatta didn't fit here so he should have been moved regardless of JJ being here. Hagelin for Pearson wasn't a mistake because Hagelin sucked, again Pearson just didn't work out but he was then turned into Gudbranson who played better here then Oleksiak ever has

 

[Pens1566]

Yeah Sheahan and Brassard were steals for what they brought. Which was *check notes*.....


nothing

First, I was referring to dealing Kessel away for an all around worse version of exactly what they claimed to be getting away from.

Second, you're going to use Brassard as an example of why JR shouldn't be let go? Bold strategy Cotton.

 

[Mario_is_BACK!!]

Zubov for nothing. Failure. Naslund for Stojanov. GOAT worst trade. Never getting out of the 2nd round following 1992, despite having several first ballot hall of famers in their prime on the squad? Failure. Eddie O. Constantine. Hlinka. Kip Miller. The Jagr trade. Mironov for Murphy.

All of these were also horrible, and yet.... I can't seem to put my finger why you aren't making threads about how awful CP was.

Because Craig Patrick isn't wasting away the last of two generational players prime years of contention with easily preventable mistakes that many see coming and he goes forward with anyway?

 

[Icarium]

He has lucked his way in to three Stanley Cups, plain and simple.

If somebody is lucky enough to do that, we should probably keep him.

Seriously, I think it's time to part ways with JR but this statement is simply laughable. You don't "luck your way" into three
three Stanley Cups. But on the other hand, past achievement don't mean much if in the here and now somebody is making dumb error after dumb error.

 

[TimmyD]

Shero's worst move was re-signing Scuderi.

I can't remember a time in free agency where Shero handed out a bad long-term deal aside from that.

Re-signing Craig Adams to a 2 year deal and signing Tanner Glass were awful moves. Trading two 2nd's for Doug Murray. Trading Joe Morrow for Brendan Morrow... He made a lot of bad decisions with Botterill here

 

[HandshakeLine]

Because Craig Patrick isn't wasting away the last of two generational players prime years of contention with easily preventable mistakes that many see coming and he goes forward with anyway?

The f*** are you talking about happened between 1992 and 1997? You had Lemieux, Jagr and Francis in their prime.

Are you saying three of the top 15 best players of all time aren't generational? Are you saying the refusal to hire a decent coach, ice 4 lines, or get real defenseman was some sort of positive use of time?

 

[JRS91]

Re-signing Craig Adams to a 2 year deal and signing Tanner Glass were awful moves. Trading two 2nd's for Doug Murray. Trading Joe Morrow for Brendan Morrow... He made a lot of bad decisions with Botterill here

Sorry, I block out Craig Adams so much I forgot he even played here.

Glass was bad but it was a 2 year deal. Murray was an overpayment but what became of it? Joe Morrow is at best a 7th defenseman in the NHL. Brendan Morrow was great for us before he was forced to play with one kneecap.

 

[Mario_is_BACK!!]

The **** are you talking about happened between 1992 and 1997? You had Lemieux, Jagr and Francis in their prime.

Are you saying three of the top 15 best players of all time aren't generational? Are you saying the refusal to hire a decent coach, ice 4 lines, or get real defenseman was some sort of positive use of time?

Why is 1992-1997 relevant to what is happening now? Are you feeling okay? Bark twice if you're in Cincinnati!

 

[tom_servo]

I have some hope, but we're veering into 2013 Ray Shero salt-the-earth territory.

Jobs are definitely on the line this season.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

You gotta love the fact that things never change around here, i.e. this thread existing and being posted so fast.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Why is 1992-1997 relevant to what is happening now? Are you feeling okay?

No, you're missing my point. My point is, you like CP. You refuse to acknowledge anything bad about him, despite ample evidence that he f***ed this team up JUST like JR. And yet... you still remember him fondly.

Why? (Again, no shame in it, just pointing it out.) Because he won a few cups. Because he had a good trade. The point is, nobody's going to remember this shit at all, GMJR will always be considered one of the great GMs here because of the B2B Cups and the trades that worked out in our favor.

 

[TimmyD]

Sorry, I block out Craig Adams so much I forgot he even played here.

Glass was bad but it was a 2 year deal. Murray was an overpayment but what became of it? Joe Morrow is at best a 7th defenseman in the NHL. Brendan Morrow was great for us before he was forced to play with one kneecap.

We all try to block out the time that Adams was a regular in our lineup lol... My point is that Shero also made mistakes with Botterill being here so I don't agree with the notion that Boterrill was more responsible for the moves that helped us to win our two cups. I'm not even saying I think JR is great and should be kept because honestly I think they could use a fresh face upstairs (not Guerin) but for people to say that his legacy here will be regarded as a complete failure is absurdly incorrect

 

[Mario_is_BACK!!]

No, you're missing my point. My point is, you like CP. You refuse to acknowledge anything bad about him, despite ample evidence that he ****ed this team up JUST like JR.

I think I did acknowledge deficiencies so... okay cool flex?

 

[Pens1566]

No, you're missing my point. My point is, you like CP. You refuse to acknowledge anything bad about him, despite ample evidence that he ****ed this team up JUST like JR. And yet... you still remember him fondly.

Why? (Again, no shame in it, just pointing it out.) Because he won a few cups. Because he had a good trade. The point is, nobody's going to remember this **** at all, GMJR will always be considered one of the great GMs here because of the B2B Cups and the trades that worked out in our favor.

Eh, not to inject politics but it's probably the same reason I'm not ranting about the first W administration. Shit is in the past and we have bigger current problems to address.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I think I did acknowledge deficiencies so... okay cool flex?

Try reading the whole post next time.

 

[Mario_is_BACK!!]

Try reading the whole post next time.

I did. And I'm addressing the relevant part. If anything though you're proving me right. You view CP as a failure for not getting the most of what he could. People do that with Shero. People will do that with Rutherford, especially if/when they don't make the playoffs.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Eh, not to inject politics but it's probably the same reason I'm not ranting about the first W administration. **** is in the past and we have bigger current problems to address.

Man, the halcyon days of 2004. f***, we're doomed.

I don't think there's anything wrong with liking CP's tenure. He seems like a good dude, and there were some good memories there, 80s hockey hair galore, but he wasted a lot of potential, and iced some bad teams, and allowed the players to run the club. Shero was revolutionary, and then got complacent. It happens. And JR's a river boat gambler and takes way more risks than he should have. In the end of things, neither CP, nor RS, nor JR are bad GMs, they're just not perfect ones. But they have 5 Cups between them, so of course people are going to like them. It's natural.

But if people are going to criticize them, I think we should look as much as we can at the whole picture. And I'll never forgive CP for wasting the prime years of three of the best players to ever lace 'em up in their generation.

 

[JRS91]

We all try to block out the time that Adams was a regular in our lineup lol... My point is that Shero also made mistakes with Botterill being here so I don't agree with the notion that Boterrill was more responsible for the moves that helped us to win our two cups. I'm not even saying I think JR is great and should be kept because honestly I think they could use a fresh face upstairs (not Guerin) but for people to say that his legacy here will be regarded as a complete failure is absurdly incorrect

People have hated Rutherford since he swapped Despres for Lovejoy.

My issue is, Rutherford will make a good move, then he'll turn around and make a bad move. He made a good move swapping Maatta for Kahun, the Kessel trade was a good return in my opinion, but then he takes all our cap space and gets an unnecessary piece in Tanev on a bad contract. If the Penguins traded Rust prior to this and it was only 3-4 years, I'd be fine with it. Now you're moving a similar player for no reason while you just signed the same type of player on a worst contract.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I did. And I'm addressing the relevant part. If anything though you're proving me right. You view CP as a failure for not getting the most of what he could. People do that with Shero. People will do that with Rutherford, especially if/when they don't make the playoffs.

...

Except you... didn't?

 

[TimmyD]

People have hated Rutherford since he swapped Despres for Lovejoy.

My issue is, Rutherford will make a good move, then he'll turn around and make a bad move. He made a good move swapping Maatta for Kahun, the Kessel trade was a good return in my opinion, but then he takes all our cap space and gets an unnecessary piece in Tanev on a bad contract. If the Penguins traded Rust prior to this and it was only 3-4 years, I'd be fine with it. Now you're moving a similar player for no reason while you just signed the same type of player on a worst contract.

I agree that after his two good trades he turned around and made a horrific signing and that is alarming. Hopefully Tanev can turn into a Marchand lite and mesh well with Sid. $3.5 million for Sid’s long term RW would end up being a huge steal

 

[JTG]

He was so close to turning this cap situation around. He took a huge shit on the progress he was making with this deal. The sad part about it is that I can't even be excited for a really solid player joining our roster because his deal is so bad. The money I could have even handled at 3 years.

 

[JRS91]

I agree that after his two good trades he turned around and made a horrific signing and that is alarming. Hopefully Tanev can turn into a Marchand lite and mesh well with Sid. $3.5 million for Sid’s long term RW would end up being a huge steal

He'll probably bounce around the lineup. If I'm correct, Tanev mostly played on the LW.

We already have Guentzel, Galchenyuk and McCann on the LW. It's going to be interesting to see where everyone fits.

 

[Gurglesons]

He was so close to turning this cap situation around. He took a huge **** on the progress he was making with this deal. The sad part about it is that I can't even be excited for a really solid player joining our roster because his deal is so bad. The money I could have even handled at 3 years.

Yeah.

Not sure Tanev is a really solid player. But yeah.