Jim Benning vs Kyle Dubas

[Namikaze Minato]

But according to you it was logical to move him as he’d played his way out of town... so from the other end, wouldn’t that mean it was illogical for Sakic to acquire him?

Or did Sakic expect a change of address would also change the player?

Just asked him, Sakic said he needed a second line center so he traded for one. Now you can stop your stupid, constant straw man "gotcha's" that are just making you look childish.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Whether or not it will lead to ultimate success, I do think one thing working in Toronto's favor is Keefe and Dubas seem to be on the same page about what they want from the roster. Keefe seems to be finding the right roles for players that Dubas is acquiring, and Dubas seems to be finding the right pieces for what Keefe wants to do.

Whether that leads to a Cup or not is still up in the air. But at least they're on the same page, which sometimes you don't see between coach and GM, which leads to the GM acquiring players the coach doesn't know how to use.

 

[sparxx87]

Just asked him, Sakic said he needed a second line center so he traded for one. Now you can stop your stupid, constant straw man "gotcha's" that are just making you look childish.

It’s a fair question that many have asked but nobody seems to have a reasonable answer to. Rather than contributing an intelligent response, you’ve chosen to be a smart ass while claiming my perspective to be childish.

I hope you see the irony.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Yeah. It took what? 10 games to move him up? They were so starved for that type of skill set to play regular minutes.

We weren't starved of his skillset. We were on a 4-0-1 run at the time. He was given a chance because he played well on the western swing, and we had had multiple injuries to our top-9 already.

he thought it was a good idea to trade their heartbeat and only gritty top 9 forward

Neither of those things are remotely true.

Spoiler alert: He didn’t get suspended a 3rd consecutive year.

Yeah, he wasn't on the Leafs anymore.

Muzzin was a good pickup, but he was also a player put on the block and the Leafs needed D men. Not sure how much credit I give someone for making an obvious move

LMAO. It's amazing the lengths you stretch to to avoid giving credit and avoid acknowledging the fault in your narrative.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Whether or not it will lead to ultimate success, I do think one thing working in Toronto's favor is Keefe and Dubas seem to be on the same page about what they want from the roster. Keefe seems to be finding the right roles for players that Dubas is acquiring, and Dubas seems to be finding the right pieces for what Keefe wants to do.

Whether that leads to a Cup or not is still up in the air. But at least they're on the same page, which sometimes you don't see between coach and GM, which leads to the GM acquiring players the coach doesn't know how to use.

Obviously Keefe and Dubas are on the same page because you don't see Keefe asking does a player want to be in Toronto and questioning what his role would be. That's what Mike Babcock said about Jason Spezza during training camp in September 2019 and we know what happened later on opening night when he made him a healthy scratch.

 

[Namikaze Minato]

It’s a fair question that many have asked but nobody seems to have a reasonable answer to. Rather than contributing an intelligent response, you’ve chosen to be a smart ass while claiming my perspective to be childish.

I hope you see the irony.

Youve made 11 posts in the past 2 pages dancing around anything remotely constructive just to play pronoun games and ask unanswerable questions. Youve misquoted people, put words in their mouth and made nothing but strawman arguments.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Muzzin was a good pickup, but he was also a player put on the block and the Leafs needed D men. Not sure how much credit I give someone for making an obvious move, but good on him for pulling the trigger.

Why do you say that like it's a bad thing? When Los Angeles traded Muzzin they were rebuilding which is something all teams eventually do and you say it like it's a bad thing that he was on the block.

 

[sparxx87]

Youve made 11 posts in the past 2 pages dancing around anything remotely constructive just to play pronoun games and ask unanswerable questions. Youve misquoted people, put words in their mouth and made nothing but strawman arguments.

These questions aren’t unanswerable, but the answers require admitting he made a bad trade rooted in something other than logic.

It’s important to give credit where it’s due, which is why I gave credit for him admitting the flaws in his philosophy and attempting to improve.. but by the same token, it’s important to acknowledge mistakes which seems to be a challenge for some.

As far as misquoting or putting words in someone’s mouth - I confused a specific poster with something said by someone else. I immediately acknowledged my mistake and apologized... So I’m not sure what you’re talking about.

 

[IPS]

Youve made 11 posts in the past 2 pages dancing around anything remotely constructive just to play pronoun games and ask unanswerable questions. Youve misquoted people, put words in their mouth and made nothing but strawman arguments.

Because it's not about driving any constructive discussion. It's about driving agendas based on his beliefs whether it's in line with reality or not.

 

[sparxx87]

Why do you say that like it's a bad thing? When Los Angeles traded Muzzin they were rebuilding which is something all teams eventually do and you say it like it's a bad thing that he was on the block.

It’s not a bad thing, it’s a good thing, but it was also an obvious thing. I don’t feel the need to credit someone for making an obvious choice.

I’ve given Dubas credit when I think he deserves it. I find it interesting that so many refuse to acknowledge the mistakes he’s made, though.

 

[RogerR]

It’s not a bad thing, it’s a good thing, but it was also an obvious thing. I don’t feel the need to credit someone for making an obvious choice.

I’ve given Dubas credit when I think he deserves it. I find it interesting that so many refuse to acknowledge the mistakes he’s made, though.

Was it? He is a LH D and Leafs badly needed RH D. Dubas got a lot of criticism for that.

 

[LeafsNation75]

It’s not a bad thing, it’s a good thing, but it was also an obvious thing. I don’t feel the need to credit someone for making an obvious choice.

I’ve given Dubas credit when I think he deserves it. I find it interesting that so many refuse to acknowledge the mistakes he’s made, though.

Dubas only mistakes and this one with hindsight was the Kadri for Barrie trade.

Besides that he should have also kept Curtis McElhinney instead of Garret Sparks as their #2 Goalie going into the 2018-19 Season.

 

[sparxx87]

Was it? He is a LH D and Leafs badly needed RH D. Dubas got a lot of criticism for that.

Maybe. But they needed top 4 d men far more than they needed to be picky about handedness. I’m not a big Muzzin fan, but getting a player of his caliber for a pick in the twenties and a few unremarkable prospects is a no brainer IMO.

 

[sparxx87]

Dubas only mistakes and this one with hindsight was the Kadri for Barrie trade.

Besides that he should have also kept Curtis McElhinney instead of Garret Sparks as their #2 Goalie going into the 2018-19 Season.

Absolutely. I don’t think those are his only mistakes, but being fair and honest both ways is the only way to have productive discussion.

Respect.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Was it? He is a LH D and Leafs badly needed RH D. Dubas got a lot of criticism for that.

The Leafs had a RH D with Justin Holl who Dubas was responsible for originally signing to the Marlies, however Mike Babcock decided it was best to make him a healthy scratch for 71 games during the 2018-19 Season.

 

[Skolman]

Dubas only mistakes and this one with hindsight was the Kadri for Barrie trade.

Besides that he should have also kept Curtis McElhinney instead of Garret Sparks as their #2 Goalie going into the 2018-19 Season.

You don't think signing Matthews for only 5 years, while paying him close to McDavid money was a mistake?

There's zero reason why Dubas couldn't have signed him to max term at that dollar figure.

 

[LeafsNation75]

You don't think signing Matthews for only 5 years, while paying him close to McDavid money was a mistake?

There's zero reason why Dubas couldn't have signed him to max term at that dollar figure.

The report was if Matthews was to sign for 8 years he would have wanted north of McDavid's $12.5 million by $1 million or more. Would you have been okay with him getting more AAV than McDavid in that scenario?

 

[generalshepherd141]

Where are all the Benning apologists now?

 

[Skolman]

The report was if Matthews was to sign for 8 years he would have wanted north of McDavid's $12.5 million by $1 million or more. Would you have been okay with him getting more AAV than McDavid in that scenario?

Would I rather have Matthews at 13 mil per for 8 years than Matthews at 11.6 mil for 5 years? Yes. Both would still be terrible though.

Regardless, Matthews and his agent have to be complete morons to suggest he should make McDavid money.

If he expected 13 mil+ per for 8 yrs after his entry level deal, what's he going to be expecting as a UFA in 2024?

I just don't understand how a player with a career high of 69 points at the time can demand 13 mil+ per season. Dubas caved at 5 years, curious to see how that works out for him in the future when dealing with Matthews and his agent.

 

[RogerR]

The Leafs had a RH D with Justin Holl who Dubas was responsible for originally signing to the Marlies, however Mike Babcock decided it was best to make him a healthy scratch for 71 games during the 2018-19 Season.

Yup. A very good RH D was in the pressbox. What a disaster

 

[RogerR]

Would I rather have Matthews at 13 mil per for 8 years than Matthews at 11.6 mil for 5 years? Yes. Both would still be terrible though.

Regardless, Matthews and his agent have to be complete morons to suggest he should make McDavid money.

If he expected 13 mil+ per for 8 yrs after his entry level deal, what's he going to be expecting as a UFA in 2024?

I just don't understand how a player with a career high of 69 points at the time can demand 13 mil+ per season. Dubas caved at 5 years, curious to see how that works out for him in future with Matthews and his agent.

Bottom line, Leafs are in far better shape than Edmonton. So much more depth and such better prospects. Dubas is solid. The obsession over cap hits of only 3-4 players have led his work to be underrated.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Would I rather have Matthews at 13 mil per for 8 years than Matthews at 11.6 mil for 5 years? Yes. Both would still be terrible though.

Regardless, Matthews and his agent have to be complete morons to suggest he should make McDavid money.

If he expected 13 mil+ per for 8 yrs after his entry level deal, what's he going to be expecting as a UFA in 2024?

I just don't understand how a player with a career high of 69 points at the time can demand 13 mil+ per season. Dubas caved at 5 years, curious to see how that works out for him in the future when dealing with Matthews and his agent.

Because the last 40 goal Rookie was Ovechkin

 

[RogerR]

Leafs have almost all their core locked up. They are #1 in the NHl with a great prospect Pool. Dubas is a stud. They are set up nicely for a long time.

 

[Skolman]

Because the last 40 goal Rookie was Ovechkin

Yes, Ovechkin also had almost 40 more points than Matthews as a rookie.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Would I rather have Matthews at 13 mil per for 8 years than Matthews at 11.6 mil for 5 years? Yes. Both would still be terrible though.

Regardless, Matthews and his agent have to be complete morons to suggest he should make McDavid money.

If he expected 13 mil+ per for 8 yrs after his entry level deal, what's he going to be expecting as a UFA in 2024?

I just don't understand how a player with a career high of 69 points at the time can demand 13 mil+ per season. Dubas caved at 5 years, curious to see how that works out for him in the future when dealing with Matthews and his agent.

Even if Dubas agreed to Matthews ask of 8 years and $13 million, I'm sure you would be claiming today how he caved on that contract.

So either way in your opinion Dubas can do nothing right.