Jim Benning & Management Megathread -- Leadership Level is over 9000 Edition

[WTG]

Kenins-Horvat-Hansen >>> Prust-Vey-Dorsett
Matthias-Richardson-Kassian = Higgins-Horvat-Hansen
Higgins-Bonino-Vrbata > Baertschi-Sutter-Vrbata

 

[CherryToke]

I don't believe that there will be any "blow it up rebuild" for this team regardless of how they finish...I think they will continue to follow this misguided "plan" even in the event of a collapse.

if that happens I would expect everyone to be up in arms including myself.

 

[LeftCoast]

How embarrassing will it be when we don't make the playoffs this year?

I think it was far more important for the new management team to make the playoffs last year. They had to demonstrate positive change and send a positive signal to the season ticket holders.

If they don't make the playoffs this year, at the TDL they can move expiring contract and make a case for rebuilding. This is clearly in mind as they have not re-upped Vrbata, Hamhuis or Prust. If they trade any 2 of those at the TDL for picks, we will likely finish bottom 5 or 6 in the league with additional picks in the 1st or 2nd round. Not a bad way to rebuild.

If Hamhuis is traded at the TDL there is a good chance that he could be re-signed in the summer.

 

[me2]

I can't wait for the season to start. Great decisions by management all through out the off season.

Agree, anything less than the 2nd round is a failure.

 

[me2]

How embarrassing will it be when we don't make the playoffs this year?

I think that would be considered an abject failure by everyone.

 

[Proto]

The team could realistically be better (if you believe they are) and still miss the playoffs by 8-12 points, based on the lucky results they got last season. Trying to replicate the 100-point season seems like the most damaging course of action Benning could have charted, but here we are. I look forward to this discussion over the season!

 

[Eddy Punch Clock]

If Hamhuis is traded at the TDL there is a good chance that he could be re-signed in the summer.

I could be mis-remembering here, but isn't there a rule now where a player you trade can't be re-signed by the team that traded him for at least one full season?

 

[Eddy Punch Clock]

The team could realistically be better (if you believe they are) and still miss the playoffs by 8-12 points, based on the lucky results they got last season. Trying to replicate the 100-point season seems like the most damaging course of action Benning could have charted, but here we are. I look forward to this discussion over the season!

Like I said earlier; a very unlikely overtime success rate to duplicate.

 

[Proto]

Like I said earlier; a very unlikely overtime success rate to duplicate.

They really out-resulted their peripheral numbers. About the only way they'll repeat the same season is if they're equally lucky, improve by quite a bit, or get elite goaltending. It's not impossible, but it's unlikely.

 

[Zaddy91]

14-15 2nd : Higgins-Bonino-Vrbata
Vs
15-16 2nd ~ Baertschi-Sutter-Vrbata

14-15 3rd : Matthias-Richardson-Kassian /Vey
Vs
15-16 3rd ~ Higgins-Horvat-Hansen

14-15 4th and spares : Dorsett-Horvat-Hansen / Vey, Kenins
Vs
15-16 4th and spares ~ Dorsett-Vey-Prust /Kenins, Virtanen

People will argue matthias richardson kassian is a better 4th

 

[thepuckmonster]

I could be mis-remembering here, but isn't there a rule now where a player you trade can't be re-signed by the team that traded him for at least one full season?

Vermette re-signed with Arizona after being traded to Chicago at the TDL so I don't think so.

 

[LeftCoast]

I could be mis-remembering here, but isn't there a rule now where a player you trade can't be re-signed by the team that traded him for at least one full season?

I don't think so. A player who is bought out can't be re-signed by the team that bought him out, but I've never heard any such rules w.r.t. trades. It's happened numerous times. Other than the buyout / unconditional waivers, a UFA is a true free agent.

 

[me2]

I could be mis-remembering here, but isn't there a rule now where a player you trade can't be re-signed by the team that traded him for at least one full season?

Buyouts.

Hoping for a sell and resign as a UFA but for that to happen Benning's plans would have to be a young down in flames

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

I think that would be considered an abject failure by everyone.

I wouldn't, if we can get a pick in the 7-12 range Id be happy

 

[Horse McHindu]

Originally Posted by Canucker

I don't believe that there will be any "blow it up rebuild" for this team regardless of how they finish...I think they will continue to follow this misguided "plan" even in the event of a collapse.

You can believe what you want, but if your "blow it up" plan involves:

1) Trading almost every single one of our vets all at once

2) Having 80-90% of our line-up full of kids aged between 18-23

Then it would be YOUR plan that would be misguided in my opinion.

Benning is doing things the right way. If the Canucks are not in playoff contention, Vrbata, being in his last year, will be moved for a 2016 1st + B level prospect. Prust will also be moved.

The Benning model involves moving veteran UFA's that are in the final year of their contract if the team is not playoff bound. The Benning model encourages a SLOW yet CONSISTENT injection of the RIGHT prospects (i.e. quality over quantity), that are surrounded by vets that have either played at an elite level, or are well known lockerroom leaders.

The "blow it up" model, is what leads to the Edmonton/Florida model where you

1) Likely miss the playoffs for 5+ years
2) Don't maximize your prospects due to the fact that there are no elite and/or "leader" vets showing them the ropes.


If the Canucks finish near the bottom of the standings this year, they should continue to stay on course with the current plan. Not only would they select extremely high in the draft (increasing their chance of landing a franchise player), but would also have the added benefits of their vets corralling the talents of their prospects.

A solid veteran presence full of current/former elites and lockerroom leaders CANNOT be overlooked......otherwise you end up like Edmonton and Florida.

 

[me2]

I wouldn't, if we can get a pick in the 7-12 range Id be happy

It would take an abject failure of a year to fall from 8th in the league to 20-24rd will preparing your team for the playoffs. That is Torts year level failure, probably worse

I'm sure we would ask be happy with the pick, higher the better (common top 3), but that does not reduce the level of failure.

 

[Zaddy91]

Kenins-Horvat-Hansen >>> Prust-Vey-Dorsett yep
Matthias-Richardson-Kassian = Higgins-Horvat-Hansen nope
Higgins-Bonino-Vrbata > Baertschi-Sutter-Vrbata nope

1/3.

 

[VanillaCoke]

I just want to see Benning make a good trade.

Get someone young and exciting, nurse, tinordi, and weal all require waivers I believe and we could use any of them.
I prefer nurse.

 

[Ainec]

gl with that

 

[canucksfan]

I wouldn't, if we can get a pick in the 7-12 range Id be happy

It would be a failure by the front office staff if they do not get into the playoffs. Their goal is the playoffs.

 

[vanuck]

They really out-resulted their peripheral numbers. About the only way they'll repeat the same season is if they're equally lucky, improve by quite a bit, or get elite goaltending. It's not impossible, but it's unlikely.

I think I'll bank on that from Miller.

 

[vanuck]

playing Bonino on the 4th line is a waste of an asset if you can get a player better suited for the 3rd line for him. playing him on any of the top 3 lines makes the team slow.

This is the kind of thinking that Benning is stuck in. "3rd line types" are better suited for the 3rd line, while soft players who don't grind and don't play a physical game don't belong in the bottom 6. That's a mentality from straight out of the 1980's (and early NHL video games) and pretty much no team adheres to that anymore. You put the best players in there, period. I'd take Bonino on a 3rd/4th line over Sutter any day despite all his perceived incompatibility with that sort of role - because those sorts of archetypes objectively don't exist.

 

[CherryToke]

This is the kind of thinking that Benning is stuck in. "3rd line types" are better suited for the 3rd line, while soft players who don't grind and don't play a physical game don't belong in the bottom 6. That's a mentality from straight out of the 1980's (and early NHL video games) and pretty much no team adheres to that anymore. You put the best players in there, period. I'd take Bonino on a 3rd/4th line over Sutter any day despite all his perceived incompatibility with that sort of role - because those sorts of archetypes objectively don't exist.

Bonino being soft is not the problem. the guy can't skate. he was getting over matched by anyone Calgary put on the ice because he couldn't keep up with them. Sutter would not have that problem.

the Ducks traded Bonino for the same reason. not a guy you want in the playoffs.

 

[vanarchy]

Not to be that guylaugh, but a year of just straight suck could do wonders here.

 

[Diogenes92]

Out of all of the trades Benning has made the one I'm most worried about is the Forsling for Clendening trade. Not to mention Clendening has already been dealt away. That trade could potentially be one of his worst if Forsling continues to improve.