Post-Game Talk: Jets lose to that team 4-1, that team still sucks

[Mortimer Snerd]

Horrible reffing tonight, just horrible. Gotta get more from Connor, Scheifele and Wheeler in this game if we want to be competitive.

FIFY

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

This team is still a hot mess. What do we call it? Transition? Rebuild? How long are we going to have to endure a middle of the pack to less than stellar team overall? How many more years? I love this team but f*** me it's hard to be a fan these days.

It is not transitioning and its not rebuilding. It is stagnant. No, it is worse than stagnant. It is slowly decaying year over year. Yup, that is the right word. We have a team identity. It is decay.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Not making excuses but the Jets are coming off a 3 games in 4 nights road trip ... most teams are sluggish on their first home game back from a tough road trip especially early in the season.

Making excuses is exactly what you are doing.
Excuse may be valid. It is still an excuse.

Lets see the next few games before jumping off the ledge. Not very many more games, but a few more than 5.

 

[Heldig]

It is not transitioning and its not rebuilding. It is stagnant. No, it is worse than stagnant. It is slowly decaying year over year. Yup, that is the right word. We have a team identity. It is decay.

That hurts but is probably because it is true.

Window closed very quickly due to CAP and some odd decisions (GM and coaching).

Now they are in the dreaded musshy middle. Not good enough to be a contender (not even close, really) and not bad enough to get top draft picks and rebuild.

Still need to wait another 5 games to see if the team can adjust to the new system and become consistently effective. Early returns are not very good. Poor offense, poor defense and poor special teams.

 

[snowkiddin]

I 100% agree with your first point. This team needs a skill injection. Granted it's a bit more tricky upfront as we really only had Cole who is a skilled player who was ready last year and he got injured but on the back end we needed to stretch out Heinola and possibly Chisholm. For a team that wants offense from our backend we really aren't icing players who can provide that high end offense from the blue line. Schmidt has been really lacking there and is looking very much like a pickup that wasn't needed and is now blocking talented youngsters from the team.

I would rather see Barron on line four as I think him Gagner and Gus could be a pretty good balanced bottom 6 line.

I do wonder how much longer we can use the linemate excuse for Lowry before pointing the fingers directly at him for lack of balance. Three of the last 4 years his line has been abysmal offensively while not bringing that elite suppression. If he can't matchup any longer and can't score then what is he bringing to the table? He really is more energetic 4C with some sand paper and PK atm.

I feel for Samberg a bit as he seems to be the new Gus in that he keeps getting injured when he gets his shot.

Yeah the team is desperately needing some skilled forwards. On a positive note, we have some skill coming. Hopefully they pan out, but we have a number of intriguing forward prospects coming. Lambert, McGroarty, Lucius, Rashevsky, and Chibrikov all have legit NHL top 6 upside and are at varying points of their development. And then I think Torgersson and Barron will be solid bottom sixers. Add Perfetti who should be a top-line forward and that’s a very good group. Do they all realize their potential? Likely not, but there’s gotta be a few hits in there.

It’s early yet, but I wonder if the team falls off the rails again like last year if we don’t just fully commit to the rebuild at that point. Like if we’re not a playoff team at Christmas, do you see Scheif and Dubois dealt? We have an opportunity to load up at the draft this year as it’s supposed to be packed with talent. If this core fails again during the first half of the year, I can see us pulling the trigger on a rebuild given the contract status of some of our core guys and Chevy’s apparent job security with his recent extension should mean he’ll be unafraid to take a step back.

 

[surixon]

Yeah the team is desperately needing some skilled forwards. On a positive note, we have some skill coming. Hopefully they pan out, but we have a number of intriguing forward prospects coming. Lambert, McGroarty, Lucius, Rashevsky, and Chibrikov all have legit NHL top 6 upside and are at varying points of their development. And then I think Torgersson and Barron will be solid bottom sixers. Add Perfetti who should be a top-line forward and that’s a very good group. Do they all realize their potential? Likely not, but there’s gotta be a few hits in there.

It’s early yet, but I wonder if the team falls off the rails again like last year if we don’t just fully commit to the rebuild at that point. Like if we’re not a playoff team at Christmas, do you see Scheif and Dubois dealt? We have an opportunity to load up at the draft this year as it’s supposed to be packed with talent. If this core fails again during the first half of the year, I can see us pulling the trigger on a rebuild given the contract status of some of our core guys and Chevy’s apparent job security with his recent extension should mean he’ll be unafraid to take a step back.

Gus also looks like a good bottom 6 player in the making. There are elements of both Copp and Lowry in his game. If he translate a bit of offense he very well could be that modern two-way 3C that many good teams have.

I also wonder if we are sleeping on some of our AHL dmen. I know there is a big jump but the Moose are dominating with a top 5 of all home grown talent. Many of whom have the puck moving aspect that the Jets coaching staff is looking for.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I thought we looked like the last few seasons when we were lost and floundering around in our zone.
My expectations were that would have been one of the primary areas of concern to address and perhaps they have been working on it?
How many of you are shouting at the TV at that point when the blue line appears to have force field properties and the puck may never leave our zone
That’s beyond frustrating and hopefully they figure that out.

That's not systems that's poor decision making.

Seems to me it always, or almost always, happens after 1 or 2 opportunities to get out fail. The other 4 skaters are already switching gears expecting it to get out and the puck carrier makes a bad decision and fails to get it out. They try to do too much. Get it out in some kind of advantageous position at a time when just getting it out successfully - aka without icing it - is all that really matters.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

The impact of Copp on Lowry's game is evident now that Copp is gone, Lowry is nothing more than a 4th line centre and pk'er and is now over payed for that role.

The Copp effect was visible for years, every time Copp was taken off Lowry's line for any reason.

Lowry did come to life late last season. I'm not sure who his linemates would have been then but I think it was after Copp was gone. If he could put together a complete season like that he would be a legit 3C.

 

[GaryPoppins]

One team liquidated a bunch of their valuable assets and is blatantly tanking. Another doubled down and is committed to winning.

Early but isn’t it something..

 

[gojetsgo]

One team liquidated a bunch of their valuable assets and is blatantly tanking. Another doubled down and is committed to winning.

Early but isn’t it something..
View attachment 598055

they beat sharks seattle and detriot.... it really isn't anything

 

[None]

Lowry did come to life late last season. I'm not sure who his linemates would have been then but I think it was after Copp was gone. If he could put together a complete season like that he would be a legit 3C.

Sanford/Svechnikov-Lowry-Appleton for the bulk of the time post TDL, Barron-Lowry-Appleton was a thing for like 2-3 games.

 

[surixon]

The Copp effect was visible for years, every time Copp was taken off Lowry's line for any reason.

Lowry did come to life late last season. I'm not sure who his linemates would have been then but I think it was after Copp was gone. If he could put together a complete season like that he would be a legit 3C.

Most of that damage was on the PK. The lines 5 on 5 scoring was still pretty non existent.

 

[blueandgoldguy]

But transitioning from what to what? That is the question.

From marginal non-playoff team to marginal playoff team.

It is not transitioning and its not rebuilding. It is stagnant. No, it is worse than stagnant. It is slowly decaying year over year. Yup, that is the right word. We have a team identity. It is decay.

The decision might be made for management as to which direction they go if most or all of Dubois, Scheifele and Helly refuse to sign extensions in the off-season.

 

[DRW204]

I wasn't really intending to excuse Lowry's line's lack of offense on linemates by mentioning Copp. I was moreso suggesting that Copp's role on that line was understated and probably very undervalued.

I'd like to see Lowry matched up against more appropriate competition before saying there's absolutely zero offense from his line. With that said I'm not entirely confident that there will be an uptick in actual GF even with more appropriate matchups. His time on the PP where he has the obvious advantageous matchups still leave something to be desired.

i just dunno if there's more offense there w/ lowry. the alternative to putting lowry at 4c is then elevating gus as 3c, unless they go w/ Perfetti or Wheeler at C but i am going to guess that's not in their plans. Gus at 3C might put even less offense than Lowry

here's lowry's pts/60 at 5v5 for his career. i think he is closer to "is what it is" at this point. he had 2 v good in individual production in 17-18 (w/ young copp and tanev) and the CDN Div year (notably perreault & appleton). also did wonder w/ Ves if he was hamstrung with Lowry as his primary playmaking C . dont get me wrong ves is not some world-beater at all, but i don't think playing him w/ lowry complemented his strengths.

folks talk about winning match-ups and such.... but that really has not been happening to great consistency imo. iirc - garret hohl mentioned on twitter that lowry has been facing top-6 comp less and less, so you're left w/ a 3rd line getting outscored primarily by bottom-6ers.

 

[LowLefty]

i just dunno if there's more offense there w/ lowry. the alternative to putting lowry at 4c is then elevating gus as 3c, unless they go w/ Perfetti or Wheeler at C but i am going to guess that's not in their plans. Gus at 3C might put even less offense than Lowry

here's lowry's pts/60 at 5v5 for his career. i think he is closer to "is what it is" at this point. he had 2 v good in individual production in 17-18 (w/ young copp and tanev) and the CDN Div year (notably perreault & appleton). also did wonder w/ Ves if he was hamstrung with Lowry as his primary playmaking C . dont get me wrong ves is not some world-beater at all, but i don't think playing him w/ lowry complemented his strengths.

View attachment 598072

folks talk about winning match-ups and such.... but that really has not been happening to great consistency imo. iirc - garret hohl mentioned on twitter that lowry has been facing top-6 comp less and less, so you're left w/ a 3rd line getting outscored primarily by bottom-6ers.

Is the Lowry line being outscored by bottom 6'ers? Or has there been a recent trend to him playing against bottom 6'ers and he might someday be outscored at that level?
I'd be interested in seeing those numbers if there is enough of a sample

 

[Romang67]

One team liquidated a bunch of their valuable assets and is blatantly tanking. Another doubled down and is committed to winning.

Early but isn’t it something..
View attachment 598055

I'm, unsurprisingly, still not on board with the team after last year's debacle and the summer of the great Nothing, but we have faced some of the toughest comp in the league so far this season.

 

[surixon]

Watching the Moose and the schemes and systems work if you have players executing at a high level. I guess we will have to see if we can get this team executing at a high level and if we have the roster talent to translate that execution into enough wins to get in.

I will also say the Jets havent had any pracrice tkme recently with this schedule to work out some of the issues in there game. They should get atheist two days of practice next week and I think it's needed.

 

[GumbyCan2]

As bad as the officiating was, aside from the third when the leafs sat back, we did not look good

Patterns emerging now that I don’t like and are disheartening given the underperformance of last year.

Will keep a hopeful outlook as we finally have Bowness behind the bench for the first time but really not sure what is going on

So much sloppiness that i missed PoMo for a bit there

Yah, I noticed the powerplay is it treading in a puddle easily predicting outcome and what they are doing. Answer, not much! Only almost bright is Dubois is playing hard and tough and producing. He could have had a hat-trick or more with better puck-luck on 2 crossbars and a post dinger. Also liked Apples' game. He is exuding confidence and relevance on the top-line. If he gets a few more games in this higher role due to Ehlers out, I have him higher on the charts than Wheels, for sure. Keep Apples top-6 and drop Wheels to 3rd/4th line.

 

[GumbyCan2]

Definitely noticed Lowry being outplayed against Matthews line. Could have adjusted a home game to put Dubois against Matthews. A bit of a miss by Bones and a head-scratcher looking back.
I give Bones a "pass, move-on" card because yes, lots of louder Leafs fans could have had the bench confused as to hometeam with Bones just back and having been wiped out pretty hard from COVID infection! He looked like he was still struggling to keep his focus and had a painful look on his face. By end of 2nd period I noticed I had a similar painful look on my face in the washroom mirror. Constipation of consternation on this teams identity, possibly?

Damn there were a lot of Leaf fans in the rink. It's funny that you rarely see any Leafs gear around Winnipeg all year round, so back in the closet you go.

Team didn't have the legs to start. So many turnovers in the 1st period. Way too many turnovers this game.

In the end the difference was our top line gave up a goal to the Leafs 4th line, and the Leafs scored 2 PP goals to the Jets 0. Seems like last year's problems all over again.

Didn't like Bowness hard matching Lowry to Matthews line, I think Dubois should have got that one. Tough loss, good intensity though, for a team that had a day off from a tough roaDefinitp.

 

[GumbyCan2]

2

I'm, unsurprisingly, still not on board with the team after last year's debacle and the summer of the great Nothing, but we have faced some of the toughest comp in the league so far this season.

2/3 in 1st 5. Yuck. But after tomorrow night, Jets could be 3 & 3. Oh wow! Or, 2/4 in 6 Which would be even uglier! Go Jets Go. Forward for 1 more, anyways

 

[GumbyCan2]

Poor passing and/or receiving, puck-handling overall. Connor & Perfetti really struggled to get in the flow, I saw. Leafs were not all-world-beaters by any means. Onto struggling against a solid St.Louis Blues next! Bring 'em on. What "Jets team" shows up for this one?

Definitely noticed Lowry being outplayed against Matthews line. Could have adjusted a home game to put Dubois against Matthews. A bit of a miss by Bones and a head-scratcher looking back.
I give Bones a "pass, move-on" card because yes, lots of louder Leafs fans could have had the bench confused as to hometeam with Bones just back and having been wiped out pretty hard from COVID infection! He looked like he was still struggling to keep his focus and had a painful look on his face. By end of 2nd period I noticed I had a similar painful look on my face in the washroom mirror. Constipation of consternation on this teams identity, possibly?

 

[Jet]

One team liquidated a bunch of their valuable assets and is blatantly tanking. Another doubled down and is committed to winning.

Early but isn’t it something..
View attachment 598055

No, it's really nothing, actually

 

[Truenorthducky]

Making excuses is exactly what you are doing.
Excuse may be valid. It is still an excuse.

Lets see the next few games before jumping off the ledge. Not very many more games, but a few more than 5.

I don’t know why we as fans have to make ourselves feel better by making excuses especially playing three games in Four nights. At the beginning of a season. At the tail end of the game last night is when the Jets had the most energy I mean come on people these are professional athletes I think they can handle three games and four nights especially after having a nights rest. Look around the league how many injuries there are teams are finding ways and also playing several games over a Span We don’t have to make excuses let’s just wait and see what his team is made of in the next two weeks.

 

[Gabe Kupari]

I guess 2 and 3 with wins over nyr and Colorado but losses to Dallas Vegas and Toronto are 2 much for some.

5 games 5 playoff teams.

I'd be more disappointed if we were 2 and 3 after playing non playoff teams

 

[Slimy Sculpin]

One team liquidated a bunch of their valuable assets and is blatantly tanking. Another doubled down and is committed to winning.

Early but isn’t it something..
View attachment 598055

Yes, it is something......it's early!