Speculation: Jets - General Rumour, Trade, Free Agent and Waiver Speculation (Part XIV)

[Zhamnov10]

Did well on wing this season with:
Kane-Antro-Burmi (they switched part way)

Did well last season on wing with:
Burmi-Antro-Welly

Putting him with Kane and Scheifele may be ok but burmi is not what that line needs to be successful,especially because Scheifele is not fully developed as a player you need a somewhat veteran presence on the RW.

 

[sully1410]

Umm ya just a little wow?

The only hockey I've ever played is street hockey, so I'll admit Im a little ignorant on stuff like this.

I've played both sides on D, and didnt really notice a difference and played all three fwd positions and didnt notice a difference...in the loosest sense of the word position that is lol.

 

[sully1410]

Putting him with Kane and Scheifele may be ok but burmi is not what that line needs to be successful,especially because Scheifele is not fully developed as a player you need a somewhat veteran presence on the RW.

Says who? Burmi tilts puck possession in his favour for everyone he's on a line with. That's a line that can strike quick and can be defensively responsible and physical. That's a match made in heaven for me. There will be plenty of guys to mentor Scheif in the locker and on the bench.

Unless your plan was to pull Wellwood there or something.

 

[Gil Fisher]

I would like to keep Burmistrov around too but I think the problem is he might not give us much of a choice.

I believe this to be spot on.

 

[sully1410]

Did well on wing this season with:
Kane-Antro-Burmi (they switched part way)

Did well last season on wing with:
Burmi-Antro-Welly

That's what I thought as well. Didnt he center the second line as well last season with Kane and Welly?

 

[sully1410]

I believe this to be spot on.

As I said before, he openly said that he was relieved tht he wasn't traded at the deadline, so I doubt he has drastically changed his mind. He really just needs to listen to the coach.

 

[Gil Fisher]

As I said before, he openly said that he was relieved tht he wasn't traded at the deadline, so I doubt he has drastically changed his mind. He really just needs to listen to the coach.

Imagine a player (or his agent) saying all the right things publicly.

 

[truck]

Imagine a player (or his agent) saying all the right things publicly.

Imagine a source leaking something that they want leaked for selfish purposes.

 

[garret9]

Putting him with Kane and Scheifele may be ok but burmi is not what that line needs to be successful,especially because Scheifele is not fully developed as a player you need a somewhat veteran presence on the RW.

I don't know really how vet presences being on your line actually helps players develop better TBH...

Better players I think probably help develop better players.. plus lots of other variables.

I think Burmi would actually be best person *given our current roster* as he is highly defensive and really good at tilting the ice in the Jets favour... the two largest problems for rookies.

 

[Gil Fisher]

Imagine a source leaking something that they want leaked for selfish purposes.

I don't follow.

 

[garret9]

I don't follow.

Truck wrote an article on it...


But to add some of my own opinions:

There has been a pattern in WPG Jets 2.0 contract history with sources leaking on both sides.

One side leaking that this is the best deal we'll give
Other side leaking that the player may go away for work elsewhere or wants out of WPG


Add in that Burmi's agent did something similar before with Semin
Add in that Pavelec scored a deal far more than he's worth with some ploys
Ta da...

Sumarry:
Rumors are rumors... and sometimes even valid sources "accidentally" leak for their own means.
Burmi has very little negotiating power as an RFA and agents can do funny things to try and make up for it.

 

[Zhamnov10]

Says who? Burmi tilts puck possession in his favour for everyone he's on a line with. That's a line that can strike quick and can be defensively responsible and physical. That's a match made in heaven for me. There will be plenty of guys to mentor Scheif in the locker and on the bench.

Unless your plan was to pull Wellwood there or something.

By veteran I'm talking about a guy who has almost reached his potential all three of the guys on that line still have a ways to go,I think we need a gritty guy that can go hard to the net for Kane's rebounds and Scheifs feeds both Scheif and Kane play with Tempo more of a quick transition game.Burmi does a lot of turn backs to set up a calculated attack a lot like the sedins but he has no one that plays that style on the jets except maybe Antro his skill set really translates to that style of game forcing him to be a north south player is just wasting his talents in my opinion but we are stuck with what we have right now I think we are better off leaving burmi at centre and finding him a suitable linemate to help showcase his skills.

 

[garret9]

By veteran I'm talking about a guy who has almost reached his potential all three of the guys on that line still have a ways to go,I think we need a gritty guy that can go hard to the net for Kane's rebounds and Scheifs feeds both Scheif and Kane play with Tempo more of a quick transition game.Burmi does a lot of turn backs to set up a calculated attack a lot like the sedins but he has no one that plays that style on the jets except maybe Antro his skill set really translates to that style of game forcing him to be a north south player is just wasting his talents in my opinion but we are stuck with what we have right now I think we are better off leaving burmi at centre and finding him a suitable linemate to help showcase his skills.

Seems logical.
He has done well with Antro... but he has done well with Kane too...

 

[sully1410]

Imagine a player (or his agent) saying all the right things publicly.

I'm sure there was another way to put that instead of Im relieved to not have been traded.

Or how about this...imagine a world where pro athletes(or there agents) didnt lie every time they opened their mouths.

Imagine a world where hack writer at the local newspaper wrote whatever popped into his head as a rumor to get readers. Imagine this same reporter has said the same thing about a certain forward and a certain Defenseman, yet both signed new contracts.

Interesting...

 

[Flair Hay]

I'm with ya Gil! With the rumours of us shopping him, the rumours of not signing, the (probably ill advised) benching by Noel, the drafting if zero Europeans x2...

I don't want it to be but I think it is.

 

[sully1410]

By veteran I'm talking about a guy who has almost reached his potential all three of the guys on that line still have a ways to go,I think we need a gritty guy that can go hard to the net for Kane's rebounds and Scheifs feeds both Scheif and Kane play with Tempo more of a quick transition game.Burmi does a lot of turn backs to set up a calculated attack a lot like the sedins but he has no one that plays that style on the jets except maybe Antro his skill set really translates to that style of game forcing him to be a north south player is just wasting his talents in my opinion but we are stuck with what we have right now I think we are better off leaving burmi at centre and finding him a suitable linemate to help showcase his skills.

As I said, at the end I the day the ki reall needs to listen to the coach about what the game plan is, but on the reverse side of that, he's not ever going to be effective unless you put him in a position to succeed. Burmi can do all on what your saying, him and Kane have chemistry, amassing 14pts in 200 minutes, that's pretty good.

As an aside...how do you think Burrows works on the Sedins line? He's the gritty player on that line and last I checked no one has ever accused either Burmi or Kaner of being soft.

I think that line would be a match made in heaven.

 

[Hansen Brother]

Did well on wing this season with:
Kane-Antro-Burmi (they switched part way)

Did well last season on wing with:
Burmi-Antro-Welly

garret I've was under the impression Kane-Burmi-Antro worked pretty well but when they switched to Kane-Antro-Burmi it didn't work as well. Do you have any stats telling you anything one way or the other?

I've been wondering if we should go with a line of Burmi-Jokinen-Santorelli as a third line, and put Kane and Sheif together on a line and maybe resign Antro for their right wing? It wouldn't be a permanent solution but it might do for the year. We would need to look for a young long term solution for the right wing but for the time being it might be workable.

 

[garret9]

garret I've was under the impression Kane-Burmi-Antro worked pretty well but when they switched to Kane-Antro-Burmi it didn't work as well. Do you have any stats telling you anything one way or the other?

I've been wondering if we should go with a line of Burmi-Jokinen-Santorelli as a third line, and put Kane and Sheif together on a line and maybe resign Antro for their right wing? It wouldn't be a permanent solution but it might do for the year. We would need to look for a young long term solution for the right wing but for the time being it might be workable.

No I can only tell when certain players are on the ice together...
Unless anyone actually knows which games were which... then if someone else asks really nicely I could do it by hand...

Ugh... sounds like work haha

I just went under assumption that since their numbers were really good on average and that (IIRC) they spent about 50/50 time together.

Might work?
Problem, I could see Noel though with that roster doing something silly like:
Kane-Jokinen-Santorelli
Tangradi-Antro-Burmi/Scheif
Wright-Slater-Burmi/Scheif

 

[Hansen Brother]

No I can only tell when certain players are on the ice together...
Unless anyone actually knows which games were which... then if someone else asks really nicely I could do it by hand...

Ugh... sounds like work haha

I just went under assumption that since their numbers were really good on average and that (IIRC) they spent about 50/50 time together.

Might work?
Problem, I could see Noel though with that roster doing something silly like:
Kane-Jokinen-Santorelli
Tangradi-Antro-Burmi/Scheif
Wright-Slater-Burmi/Scheif

I hope not, that would be awful. Do you really think Noel would be so caught up with short term results he would do that? The org as a whole seems to be focused on the long term it seems very short sighted to run a lineup like that.

The obvious answer is of course he would. I wonder about Noel sometimes. Kane and Joker clearly didn't work. I thought we played the best when Joker was centering the third line. It made the line dangerous. Having two guys like Burmi and Santorelli doing the leg work would help him out I think. Add in the fact Antropov said he prefers RW and Scheif having the potential to be a high end passer and it's just terrible. But I could see him doing it anyway.

 

[Gil Fisher]

I don't want it to be but I think it is.

Yeah. Big Burmi-booster here too, but can't deny what I hear. Wish it weren't so, think he'd make a great line centre this year, with spot duty on a top line and PP. Here's hoping I'm connecting all the wrong dots here.

I'll be a bit down on coach Noel too, if it comes to fruition.

 

[Bob E]

Lil off topic, but I read a really good article on mean/gritty/pain yesterday:
http://blogs.thescore.com/nhl/2013/06/12/an-aesthetic-of-violence/

Interesting.

Lets look at Milan Lucic. Game 3 vs Pens, I believe. Hits Orpik into the boards behind the goal line, Orpik is clearly dazed. Later Orpik may, or may not, be 'quite right', and Bergeron scores in OT. But the 'tough Bruin' myth continues, cause the stats say the Bruins aren't penalized as much, dont hit as much, aren't as big as other teams, etc. they just 'look like their tough or dirty'. Well tell that to Orpik and his sore melon.

A team's or player's 'toughness' may be subjective. They may also have a reputation that can't be qualified. Most players compete hard and intimidation isnt what it was in the 70's. this isnt Slapshot, for sure.

I believe players look for advantages. If they can out-muscle a guy, they will. Beat him with speed, here I go, catch me if you can. A guy that plays well positionally, or reacts well, is hard to beat. That's why I like Toby more than Stuart. But i like Bogo more than Toby. Bogo can skate well enough not to get beat, and guys don't out-muscle him very often. Stuart gets caught out of position. He's easier to play against, IMO.

The last guy that might have really been an intimidator, may have been Scott Stevens. Maybe Pronger, but he wasn't a true intimidation guy like Stevens.

 

[garret9]

Interesting.

Lets look at Milan Lucic. Game 3 vs Pens, I believe. Hits Orpik into the boards behind the goal line, Orpik is clearly dazed. Later Orpik may, or may not, be 'quite righ't, and Bergeron scores in OT. But the 'tough Bruin' myth continues, cause the stats say the Bruins aren't penalized as much, dont hit as much, aren't as big as other teams, etc. they just 'look like their tough or dirty'. Well tell that to Orpik and his sore melon.

A team's or player's 'toughness' may be subjective. They may also have a reputation that can't be qualified. Most players compete hard and intimidation isnt what it was in the 70's. this isnt Slapshot, for sure.

I believe players look for advantages. If they can out-muscle a guy, they will. Beat him with speed, here I go, catch me if you can. A guy that plays well positionally, or reacts well, is hard to beat. That's why I like Toby more than Stuart. But i like Bogo more than Toby. Bogo can skate well enough not to get beat, and guys don't out-muscle him very often. Stuart gets caught out of position. He's easier to play against, IMO.

The last guy that might have really been an intimidator, may have been Scott Stevens. Maybe Pronger, but he wasn't a true intimidation guy like Stevens.

 

[Bob E]

Did I mention Trouba has a bit of Scott Stevens, in his play?

I find the reaction of GMs when they draft a guy like Trouba or Phaneuf shows what they think of physical hockey. Chevy and the Jets table was ecstatic to get him last year. At that point, he was a defensive guy who could shoot a bit. Maybe play on a pp, one day. His game is still developing and he's rounding into a fine young dman.

Darryl Sutter hugged Dion Phaneuf when they drafted him, and a few years later traded him for being 'disruptive in the locker room' - oh ya, and NOT being that good defensively. Always out of position, etc.

So if Trouba continues to play well positionally, he's closer to Bogo than Stuart, for me. And if he's really good defensively and contributes pretty well offensively, down the road, he could become our #1 dman, IMO.

But several GMs passed on physical Trouba. Positional guys went early, as did more offensive guys. Not sure where Dumba fits, just odd selection, IMO. . Now, 1 year later, a re-draft has Trouba higher and ahead of more positionally strong or offensive guys. Why? IMO, Trouba has shown offensive ability, a strong positional game, good puck movement and a serious edge to his game. Nice combo.

 

[garret9]

long response for a head nodding reply hahaha
but I agree

 

[Bob E]

long response for a head nodding reply hahaha
but I agree

Haha.