Speculation: Jets - General Rumour, Trade, Free Agent and Waiver Speculation (Part XIV)

[Hank Chinaski]

Continue here.

Link to previous thread, below are the last handful of posts:

Fair enough. My OP was in response to the post that Brodin's value was Bogo+.

I went on to say it was Bogo's grit - with his offensive game - that moved his vlaue ahead of Brodin, imo.

Dmen that can skate, move the puck, have some offensive to their game, while playing well positionally and play with an edge, are key guys. Let's call them 5 tool guys, for argument's sake. .

Not many dmen have all five. Bogo is close (his positioning and decision making continues to improve), and Trouba has shown that he has the potential or capability to have all 5, as well. Can you get by with only some, sure, but I agree with you and truck in the respect that if something had to give, having grit might be near the top (as long as they still work hard and can compete).

Johnny is a lightning rod, no doubt. There was also a shift last game in OT where Johnny DIDN'T move the puck smartly, gave it away in the Hawks zone to start the shift and the Hawks spent nearly two minutes in their zone and couldn't change (long change). IF LA would have scored, the analysts would have pointed to Johnny's giveaway at the start - "where they could never recover".

He is what he is. But, imo, I would much rather have his defense partner on the Jets.

Argumentum ad populum.

I know the guy hasn't played top 4 minutes or special teams yet, I've already acknowledged as much. But in Cole's career, his metrics have been quite good, and Pietrangelo has been better with him than without (as have most of his teammates).

Odyua's a swede?

Stockholm.

And what was Oduya doing on the Bruins first goal? Going behind the net. Hmmm. Lucic scored, where Johnny Uh Oh should have been.

Edit: Funny how Oduya has a close up after a goal. Seen that before.

Confirmation bias?

There were 3 Blackhawks out of position on that play.

Just a little.

That may be true, but would his value be more than Bogo? That was the original reason behind my original post.

Really don't think Timonen, Hjarmalsson, Oduya or Brodin has greater value than Bogo. Those players can play a role, but likely take a back seat to a gritty performer in the playoffs. Who did Timonen have again helping get his Flyers to the finals? Oh ya, some guy named Pronger.[/QUOTE]

misconception.

timonen did not play with pronger, Matt Carle did.

If you want to call it that it's your prerogative. It also might be true, but I prefer to look at it as getting information from people who are in the best position to give it.

I wouldn't mind Cole, I thought Cole + might have been a good return for Hainsey at the deadline. I just don't like dealing Burmistrov for him.

MMMM I'd personally rather have Clitsome on my line.

Click to read more...

 

[sully1410]

I don't honk we should trade Burmi at all. At the very least he's a very good 3rd line C and that would give us Little, Scheifele, Burmi, Slater down the middle in the near future. All those guys bring a two way game to the table.

If he improves he can be a second line player giving us the KSB line. If we have the guy actual line mates he can produce and add to our scoring depth.

That would leave us with either Antro or Jokinen as our 3rd line C. Antro would be ok, but I don't see him being re-signed. Joki is far from
Ideal as he is a top six or
Bust kind of player.

I how Burmi would so
With Joki and Kane on the second line to start the year and have MS centering the third line? I think we woul have to get some competent middle six wingers through free agency. Stalberg and Raymond would be ideal I think.

 

[jamiebez]

With Joki and Kane on the second line to start the year and have MS centering the third line? I think we woul have to get some competent middle six wingers through free agency. Stalberg and Raymond would be ideal I think.

Something like:
LLW
Kane - Joker - ?
? - Schiefele - Burmistrov
Tangradi/Wright - Slater - Peluso/Thor

? could be a free agency target, or (more likely, IMO) someone else's cap dump.

Some of the names kicked around as cap dumps: Hemsky, Ward, Booth, Peverley. Hemsky would be perfect with Kane, and I like Peverley's versatility a lot. Ward seems like a Chevy player.

 

[truck]

I don't honk we should trade Burmi at all. At the very least he's a very good 3rd line C and that would give us Little, Scheifele, Burmi, Slater down the middle in the near future. All those guys bring a two way game to the table.

If he improves he can be a second line player giving us the KSB line. If we have the guy actual line mates he can produce and add to our scoring depth.

That would leave us with either Antro or Jokinen as our 3rd line C. Antro would be ok, but I don't see him being re-signed. Joki is far from
Ideal as he is a top six or
Bust kind of player.

I how Burmi would so
With Joki and Kane on the second line to start the year and have MS centering the third line? I think we woul have to get some competent middle six wingers through free agency. Stalberg and Raymond would be ideal I think.

Get off Grind's phone.

 

[Flair Hay]

I would like to keep Burmistrov around too but I think the problem is he might not give us much of a choice.

 

[sully1410]

Get off Grind's phone.

I just read through that...holy **** that was bad. Funny thing is...I almost always post from my phone lol. That was just really really bad.

So once more for the cheap seats...

I think Burmi would be very good on the second line with Jokinen and Kane. I think his vision and puck possession would really take that line to the next level. He's also got the legs to keep up with Kane and their also physical, the pair of them. That would be a good option.

That would leave Scheifele centering the 3rd line with a need for two middle six wingers that could potentially slot up if needed. I'm thinking Raymond and Stalberg would be perfect.

That would make our line up look like this:

Ladd - Little - Wheeler
Kane - Jokinen - Burmistrov
Raymond - Scheifele - Stalberg
Wright - Slater - Peluso

If we could somehow get another top four Defenseman, we could package off Stuart and run with Clitsome - Trouba RedPost on the bottoms pairing. Ok that just sounds funny...

 

[sully1410]

I would like to keep Burmistrov around too but I think the problem is he might not give us much of a choice.

I don't buy that. He said himself that he was happy to be staying in Winnipeg. I don't buy that he suddenly now what's to be traded. That makes no sense.

 

[Aela*]

tbh i'd rather have scheifele on the 2nd than jokinen and I don't even like Scheifele that much.

Chris Kelly might not be signed again, and MacArthur apparently won't be. Picking up those two would be great.

Ladd - Little - Wheeler
Kane - Scheifele - Burmi
MacArthur - Kelly - Tangradi
Wright - Slater - Peluso

Hopefully we could replace Tangradi with someone like Peverley. Not that bad a forwards corp, and assuming Little and Wheeler resign decently cheap, we'd have a fair amount of cap space.

 

[Bob E]

Holy smokes, I didn't say KT played with Pronger - as a defense pairing.

My point was, the Flyers got to the finals more so because of what Pronger brought, than KT. Do guys play a role, sure, but its sure nice having that 'nasty' dman, with skill, to keep guys honest.

Chicago has Keith and Seabrook, which are more important to their cups hopes than Hjarl or oduya. Most of Boston's d fits that description. Would LA and Pitt get as far without a Doughty and Letang? Likely not. Skill is there, WITH some nastiness. A team's d corps can't have only one element and be truly effective in the playoffs.

 

[sully1410]

Holy smokes, I didn't say KT played with Pronger - as a defense pairing.

My point was, the Flyers got to the finals more so because of what Pronger brought, than KT. Do guys play a role, sure, but its sure nice having that 'nasty' dman, with skill, to keep guys honest.

Chicago has Keith and Seabrook, which are more important to their cups hopes than Hjarl or oduya. Most of Boston's d fits that description. Would LA and Pitt get as far without a Doughty and Letang? Likely not. Skill is there, WITH some nastiness. A team's d corps can't have only one element and be truly effective in the playoffs.

We have more then one element. Toby and Buff bring the offensive skill, Toby has other skills as well as a huge stick(super important...walk soft but carry a big stick) and buff brings some physicality. Bogo and Trouba will be our shutdown guys but also bring some offense. That's pretty good if you ask me.

 

[Aela*]

We have more then one element. Toby and Buff bring the offensive skill, Toby has other skills as well as a huge stick(super important...walk soft but carry a big stick) and buff brings some physicality. Bogo and Trouba will be our shutdown guys but also bring some offense. That's pretty good if you ask me.

I agree. The only problem is...3 of them are righty's.

 

[sully1410]

I agree. The only problem is...3 of them are righty's.

One could switch over to the left though, or another Lefty could be found either through trade or FA...point is we have diversity.

 

[Bob E]

We have more then one element. Toby and Buff bring the offensive skill, Toby has other skills as well as a huge stick(super important...walk soft but carry a big stick) and buff brings some physicality. Bogo and Trouba will be our shutdown guys but also bring some offense. That's pretty good if you ask me.

Completely agree, sully.

I like the make-up of our d. Would like Buff to be a bit more physical and little better defensively, but he brings size and skill not found in a lot of d.

I guess I was trying to kill a fly with a hammer, using ps' comment from a previous thread, to make the original point that Bogo>Brodin. Got off the rails a bit.

But I do like guys like Bogo, Trouba, Redmond as well as Buff and Enstrom. Wouldn't want a team of only one type, and I wouldn't trade a 'enstrom' for a 'bogosian' - unless I had suitable replacements in hand. Kind of why I'm fine with trading Buff, as I think Trouba is ready for a top 4 role and ice time - or shared between redmond and postma, when needed. Now, that may not be a popular view, but I think Trouba playing 20 mins/gm next season will be a good thing for Jets and Troubs moving forward.

 

[Bob E]

One could switch over to the left though, or another Lefty could be found either through trade or FA...point is we have diversity.

I know we've talked a lot on these boards about moving a RH dman to left side, but I wonder how receptive Jets management and coaching staff is to that.

You have to think they would have tried it in practice, at some point, but I don't believe we've seen it in a game, ever. Have they ever dressed 4 rh dmen at one time, in a game? Even in those games where the 'logical' coaching moved seemed to be dressing 4 rh dmen, as they would have appeared to be the best players on the roster and had played recently, a LH dman was dressed, iirc.

I'm thinking a trade (or FA signing) for a LH dman may be the more likely scenario.

 

[truck]

I know we've talked a lot on these boards about moving a RH dman to left side, but I wonder how receptive Jets management and coaching staff is to that.

You have to think they would have tried it in practice, at some point, but I don't believe we've seen it in a game, ever. Have they ever dressed 4 rh dmen at one time, in a game? Even in those games where the 'logical' coaching moved seemed to be dressing 4 rh dmen, as they would have appeared to be the best players on the roster and had played recently, a LH dman was dressed, iirc.

I'm thinking a trade (or FA signing) for a LH dman may be the more likely scenario.

Bogo played on the left side opposite Redmond at one point.

Can't recall when, but it happened.

 

[Grind]

Holy smokes, I didn't say KT played with Pronger - as a defense pairing.

My point was, the Flyers got to the finals more so because of what Pronger brought, than KT. Do guys play a role, sure, but its sure nice having that 'nasty' dman, with skill, to keep guys honest.

Chicago has Keith and Seabrook, which are more important to their cups hopes than Hjarl or oduya. Most of Boston's d fits that description. Would LA and Pitt get as far without a Doughty and Letang? Likely not. Skill is there, WITH some nastiness. A team's d corps can't have only one element and be truly effective in the playoffs.

sorry, it read like that in my head.


Anyways, i think there's more then one way to skin the proverbial cat. Skill and "nastyness" is definitly good. and someone who brings an equal level of skill as someone else, plus "nastyness" is always worth more.


I guess i'm just the type that doesn't give two hoots how you play.

"nasty" "skilled" "dangly" "east-west" "powergame" "lunch-pail", at the end of the day, these things are all just aesthetics.

I don't care how it looks, just make the team better. If our teams all a bunch of dangly east-west pesky, whiny, no-honor brad-marchand types, and they win us a cup (hell even make the playoffs), that's good enough for me.


Whoever helps put more pucks on and in the opponents net while reducing the ones in/against ours is who i want. "Style" be damned.

 

[Bob E]

Bogo played on the left side opposite Redmond at one point.

Can't recall when, but it happened.

Do you remember if it was to start a game, or during the game, because of injury? I seem to remember being at the Sabres game when Toby was hurt, and guys then played with many different combos. Bogo with Buff at times too.

But that wasn't continued the next game, likely because Redmond was injured at the time, and Trouba didn't get in.

Just doesn't seem like something they are planning on doing, though maybe now with Redmond back and Trouba here, they might.

 

[sully1410]

Do you remember if it was to start a game, or during the game, because of injury? I seem to remember being at the Sabres game when Toby was hurt, and guys then played with many different combos. Bogo with Buff at times too.

But that wasn't continued the next game, likely because Redmond was injured at the time, and Trouba didn't get in.

Just doesn't seem like something they are planning on doing, though maybe now with Redmond back and Trouba here, they might.

Unless they find a new LHD or the Hains is back, they'll kind of have to. I really don't see much of a choice...and no...I do not consider Stuart playing above the bottom pairing a legitmate choice.

 

[Bob E]

sorry, it read like that in my head.


Anyways, i think there's more then one way to skin the proverbial cat. Skill and "nastyness" is definitly good. and someone who brings an equal level of skill as someone else, plus "nastyness" is always worth more.


I guess i'm just the type that doesn't give two hoots how you play.

"nasty" "skilled" "dangly" "east-west" "powergame" "lunch-pail", at the end of the day, these things are all just aesthetics.

I don't care how it looks, just make the team better. If our teams all a bunch of dangly east-west pesky, whiny, no-honor brad-marchand types, and they win us a cup (hell even make the playoffs), that's good enough for me.


Whoever helps put more pucks on and in the opponents net while reducing the ones in/against ours is who i want. "Style" be damned.

I hear ya, and agree for the most part. Though a team's style may become important depending on who they play.

So, I like a team that can play any way you want. Want to get nasty, fine, let's get nasty. Want to skate and play a skill game, no problem, we can do that. That's a team that can adapt and typically make it further in the p/o's. If you only have one style, you may face a team that can 'beat you at your own game'. Chicago, Boston, LA, Pitt - all can play different styles when they need too, though their 'grit' is all pretty high.

Then it comes down to goaltending. :'( .

 

[Zhamnov10]

I just read through that...holy **** that was bad. Funny thing is...I almost always post from my phone lol. That was just really really bad.

So once more for the cheap seats...

I think Burmi would be very good on the second line with Jokinen and Kane. I think his vision and puck possession would really take that line to the next level. He's also got the legs to keep up with Kane and their also physical, the pair of them. That would be a good option.

That would leave Scheifele centering the 3rd line with a need for two middle six wingers that could potentially slot up if needed. I'm thinking Raymond and Stalberg would be perfect.

That would make our line up look like this:

Ladd - Little - Wheeler
Kane - Jokinen - Burmistrov
Raymond - Scheifele - Stalberg
Wright - Slater - Peluso

If we could somehow get another top four Defenseman, we could package off Stuart and run with Clitsome - Trouba RedPost on the bottoms pairing. Ok that just sounds funny...

Burmi is not a winger and I'm fairly confident he will not be able to adapt, he has looked lost every time he is thrown on the wing in my opinion you play him at centre or trade him.

 

[sully1410]

Burmi is not a winger and I'm fairly confident he will not be able to adapt, he has looked lost every time he is thrown on the wing in my opinion you play him at centre or trade him.

He's played wing before...even at that...put him at centre. Scheifele can play wing then. Is it really, at the end of the day, all that different? Aside from taking face offs that is.

 

[Zhamnov10]

I agree. The only problem is...3 of them are righty's.

I'm not sure how big of a problem that is if you look at other teams the often have a odd number of leftys and rightys in there top 4.I think all three of the guys could play the off side I actually think Trouba would be the best to play his off wing I'm just not sure you want a Rookie trying to play his off wing right off the bat.

 

[garret9]

Lil off topic, but I read a really good article on mean/gritty/pain yesterday:
http://blogs.thescore.com/nhl/2013/06/12/an-aesthetic-of-violence/

 

[garret9]

Burmi is not a winger and I'm fairly confident he will not be able to adapt, he has looked lost every time he is thrown on the wing in my opinion you play him at centre or trade him.

Did well on wing this season with:
Kane-Antro-Burmi (they switched part way)

Did well last season on wing with:
Burmi-Antro-Welly

 

[Zhamnov10]

He's played wing before...even at that...put him at centre. Scheifele can play wing then. Is it really, at the end of the day, all that different? Aside from taking face offs that is.

Umm ya just a little wow?