Speculation: Jets General Rumour, Trade, Free Agent and Waiver Speculation 16-17 Part XVII

[Daximus]

I think it is more likely some who like to be disgruntled will have to look harder and harder for things to be mad about. No way our young core doesn't take continued steps forward. Goaltending alone would make us a safe playoff bet.

Therin probably lies one of the major problems. We need goaltending and the clock is ticking.

 

[Whileee]

Yeah I was which is why I said I don't see it from all perspectives but I understand why everyone is upset and it's only going to get worse. Just trying to say that we should get used to a lot of disgruntled fans around here. It's what happens when you are the only team in the league to have never won a playoff game.

I get the frustration but I also think it's important to be a bit analytical about how the team has been constructed, and how it looks for the future. The Jets have had some glaring deficiencies. My view is that these have been primarily in goal and the lack of depth and skill up front. I think that they've now largely addressed the skill and depth issue through the painstaking draft and development approach. Many thought they had also finally addressed goaltending with Hellebuyck, and maybe they have. Goalies are hoodoo. They'll still need some work there.

I'm not part of the chorus that thinks the D is awful. An NHL team should be able to win with a top 5 of Trouba, Buff, Enstrom, Myers and Morrissey. It's hard to assess them when three of them missed significant time and a couple had down years based on past performance. They'd be stronger with another top 4 D in the mix, but if Enstrom bounces back and Myers is healthy, I think it could be fine.

I think they were a borderline playoff level team last year without all the injuries, even with bad goaltending and a lot of youth. I'd still like some better usage decisions by Maurice, but I think they are poised to make a splash with this roster, both through entertainment and success.

 

[surixon]

Weren't you advocating the real long play awhile back? Where the organization needed to build more and more on the young core? I was actually quite swayed by your arguments. I've always thought it was one of Chevy's strengths not blowing his load too early before the young core was ready to carry the team. IMO at least, making a move to contend before we were truly ready would have been a waste of assets and would have left us short in the long run.

I think it's because people saw all the young talent we had last season and and felt that we flat out should have been better than we where. I don't disagree with that notion either, as I found last season to be the most frustrating year to be a fan since they came back and this was despite some terrific individual performances.

Yes Maurice had issues out of his control with regards to a substantial amount of injuries and Helle performed well under the orgs expectations.

Having said that I still feel Maurice absolutly stunk as coach last season. He implemented the wrong system for the team right off the bat. His special teams usage and schemes where awful. Went back to his top 6, checking line and energy 4th setup. I thought he was awful last season and a big reason for this team failing.

I have made peace with him getting another opportunity but my expectations are that he and management addressed his short comings in his appraisal at seasons end and that he was developed a plan to make optimal use of the pieces he has. No more systems that force square pegs into roind hokes. As much as I'm not Moe's biggest fan i want nithing more than this team to start competing fpr a cup and could care less who is our management and coach when that occurs.

 

[Gm0ney]

It's frustrating that this team's had some glaring issues for years and the organization thinks it's fine to just stay the course.

Will another season be sunk by letting the Lowry line play "shut down" with their mid-40s Corsi? Will line 4 continue to feature Copp with 2 terrible wingers?

How many years of bottom 5 special teams and goaltending does it take to get Mr. Dithers to change a lightbulb in the coaching department?

I guess some people just don't want to see more-of-the-same, but it looks like we're going to get it anyway.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

It's frustrating that this team's had some glaring issues for years and the organization thinks it's fine to just stay the course.

Will another season be sunk by letting the Lowry line play "shut down" with their mid-40s Corsi? Will line 4 continue to feature Copp with 2 terrible wingers?

How many years of bottom 5 special teams and goaltending does it take to get Mr. Dithers to change a lightbulb in the coaching department?

I guess some people just don't want to see more-of-the-same, but it looks like we're going to get it anyway.

The most frustrating thing: they've dealt with the depth issues - the remaining issues are pretty glaring, and "relatively" easy to identify and target to fix.

This damned team was mostly good enough to have been in the playoffs this year. They better be next year.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I get the frustration but I also think it's important to be a bit analytical about how the team has been constructed, and how it looks for the future. The Jets have had some glaring deficiencies. My view is that these have been primarily in goal and the lack of depth and skill up front. I think that they've now largely addressed the skill and depth issue through the painstaking draft and development approach. Many thought they had also finally addressed goaltending with Hellebuyck, and maybe they have. Goalies are hoodoo. They'll still need some work there.

I'm not part of the chorus that thinks the D is awful. An NHL team should be able to win with a top 5 of Trouba, Buff, Enstrom, Myers and Morrissey. It's hard to assess them when three of them missed significant time and a couple had down years based on past performance. They'd be stronger with another top 4 D in the mix, but if Enstrom bounces back and Myers is healthy, I think it could be fine.

I think they were a borderline playoff level team last year without all the injuries, even with bad goaltending and a lot of youth. I'd still like some better usage decisions by Maurice, but I think they are poised to make a splash with this roster, both through entertainment and success.

Yes. In spite of all those shortcomings they probably would have taken a WC spot without the injuries. With our goaltending we would have been bounced very quickly but we would have got in.

Better goaltending and better coaching and we can make some noise.

Better goaltending and some roster tweaks and we can make some noise even with existing coaching.

There is a lot to be optimistic about.

 

[KingBogo]

It's frustrating that this team's had some glaring issues for years and the organization thinks it's fine to just stay the course.

Will another season be sunk by letting the Lowry line play "shut down" with their mid-40s Corsi? Will line 4 continue to feature Copp with 2 terrible wingers?

How many years of bottom 5 special teams and goaltending does it take to get Mr. Dithers to change a lightbulb in the coaching department?

I guess some people just don't want to see more-of-the-same, but it looks like we're going to get it anyway.

The biggest glaring issue the organization has had since they arrived is a lack of high end talent, and they have been addressing that one draft at a time. Scheifele, Trouba, Morrissey, Ehlers, Connor, Roslovic, Laine. Lowry and the rest of the 3rd line plays above their station because we don't yet have players ready to replace them. Maybe Roslovic and Connor are ready to change that. Lowry then becomes a very nice #4 C. Why spend resources to shore up the gaps before your engine is ready to race. A mistake was made thinking a goalie would naturally develop along side your skaters. This needs to be corrected. But IMO we contend on the back of our young core and it looks like they are just about there. Now you spend your excess assets to shore up holes. A couple years back the holes far exceeded the players in place that could help you contend. Why spend the assets you need today to shore up a team with no where near the needed pieces then?

 

[Hunter368]

I get the frustration but I also think it's important to be a bit analytical about how the team has been constructed, and how it looks for the future. The Jets have had some glaring deficiencies. My view is that these have been primarily in goal and the lack of depth and skill up front. I think that they've now largely addressed the skill and depth issue through the painstaking draft and development approach. Many thought they had also finally addressed goaltending with Hellebuyck, and maybe they have. Goalies are hoodoo. They'll still need some work there.

I'm not part of the chorus that thinks the D is awful. An NHL team should be able to win with a top 5 of Trouba, Buff, Enstrom, Myers and Morrissey. It's hard to assess them when three of them missed significant time and a couple had down years based on past performance. They'd be stronger with another top 4 D in the mix, but if Enstrom bounces back and Myers is healthy, I think it could be fine.

I think they were a borderline playoff level team last year without all the injuries, even with bad goaltending and a lot of youth. I'd still like some better usage decisions by Maurice, but I think they are poised to make a splash with this roster, both through entertainment and success.

Agree with your post.

The two biggest things I'm concerned about this summer are:

- Will Chevy address the goaltending issues finally after six years? Either a long term or short term fix, I'm fine with either one.......but going into next season with bottom five goaltending again is not acceptable.

- Extending coaching staff, I just don't believe they're good enough to get this team to make a big step ahead. Playoffs? Maybe, but no deep runs with this crew.......and isn't that the goal?

 

[KingBogo]

Agree with your post.

The two biggest things I'm concerned about this summer are:

- Will Chevy address the goaltending issues finally after six years? Either a long term or short term fix, I'm fine with either one.......but going into next season with bottom five goaltending again is not acceptable.

- Extending coaching staff, I just don't believe they're good enough to get this team to make a big step ahead. Playoffs? Maybe, but no deep runs with this crew.......and isn't that the goal?

Those would be my 2 biggest concerns as well. I've actually liked what Maurice has done to bring along individual player development. Really have my doubts he can reverse some of the systems play. Maybe bring on a creative associate coach?

 

[Hunter368]

Those would be my 2 biggest concerns as well. I've actually liked what Maurice has done to bring along individual player development. Really have my doubts he can reverse some of the systems play. Maybe bring on a creative associate coach?

PMO is good at some things, important things.....like development. But he is poor when it comes to systems play IMO. I don't think the assistant coaches help make up for or cover up for PMO short comings. I would be ok keeping PMO if they brought in new assistant coaches who addressed PMO areas of weakness. But I doubt that will happen, I'm expecting the entire same crew back next year and extended.

 

[KingBogo]

PMO is good at some things, important things.....like development. But he is poor when it comes to systems play IMO. I don't think the assistant coaches help make up for or cover up for PMO short comings. I would be ok keeping PMO if they brought in new assistant coaches who addressed PMO areas of weakness. But I doubt that will happen, I'm expecting the entire same crew back next year and extended.

Agreed they all come back, but now would be the time for Chevy to make Mo earn the extension. Of course Chevy will need to do his part and fix the goaltending. Seems like a fair trade-off.

 

[Board Bard]

PMO is good at some things, important things.....like development.

This is either (1) true or (2) just a meme that has developed because (a) Chevy told him to play the kids a lot and (b) the kids are just good at hockey. Personally I think (2) is the case and that a good coach would have developed the kids better. That leaves Maurice with really no redeeming qualities, certainly none sufficient to earn him another year behind the bench.

 

[tbcwpg]

This is either (1) true or (2) just a meme that has developed because (a) Chevy told him to play the kids a lot and (b) the kids are just good at hockey. Personally I think (2) is the case and that a good coach would have developed the kids better. That leaves Maurice with really no redeeming qualities, certainly none sufficient to earn him another year behind the bench.

Maurice has generally been good throughout his career at coaching young players. His problem is getting good teams over the hump. I don't really see how the kids can be developed any better - this team was carried by the under 24 group for most of the season, so I think saying that Maurice hindered the kids or wasn't a big part of them being so good is just flat out wrong.

 

[Hunter368]

This is either (1) true or (2) just a meme that has developed because (a) Chevy told him to play the kids a lot and (b) the kids are just good at hockey. Personally I think (2) is the case and that a good coach would have developed the kids better. That leaves Maurice with really no redeeming qualities, certainly none sufficient to earn him another year behind the bench.

Whether you agree or disagree, you should start wrapping your brain around PMO here for at least one more year......it's all but a given at this point. FYI I accepted it long ago

Maurice has generally been good throughout his career at coaching young players. His problem is getting good teams over the hump. I don't really see how the kids can be developed any better - this team was carried by the under 24 group for most of the season, so I think saying that Maurice hindered the kids or wasn't a big part of them being so good is just flat out wrong.

Agreed and I'm no big fan of PMO.

 

[D1G]

Braimstorming a bit to night as I was watching the game. I've come to realize that maybe Chevy has had a free pass all along from Chipman. Knowing Pav wasn't the answer but wanted to do a tank job for the first 6 years ( maybe longer ) for prolonged success in the future. Maybe this was a tank job all along. And maybe the year we made the playoffs was just for the fans. We got close so they went for it while not hindering our future development. They have always said this was a long term draft and develop team. And all of us can point out many many things that seem so stupid and unexplainable. But if they were trying to earn high end talent the whole time it is easily explainable. I don't know I'm pretty pessimistic lately and wanted to get some feedback on an optimistic view. Personally I don't disagree with it all.

 

[KingBogo]

Braimstorming a bit to night as I was watching the game. I've come to realize that maybe Chevy has had a free pass all along from Chipman. Knowing Pav wasn't the answer but wanted to do a tank job for the first 6 years ( maybe longer ) for prolonged success in the future. Maybe this was a tank job all along. And maybe the year we made the playoffs was just for the fans. We got close so they went for it while not hindering our future development. They have always said this was a long term draft and develop team. And all of us can point out many many things that seem so stupid and unexplainable. But if they were trying to earn high end talent the whole time it is easily explainable. I don't know I'm pretty pessimistic lately and wanted to get some feedback on an optimistic view. Personally I don't disagree with it all.

IMO Chevy has been following along with Chipman's long term vision from day 1. And most likely was hired because he demonstrated that he shared that long term vision. That the organization would draft, develop and invest in their own picks. That this was the only way to build a consistent contender in a place on many players no trade lists or UFA destinations of choice. And if you treated your own players well with respect and loyalty, which TNSE has gained a reputation for doing, they will choose to stay.

No doubt there have been a few mis-steps along the way and a little too much blind loyalty for my liking the general plan has remained mostly consistent. Again IMO we are just about ready to see if it will all pay off. A a very strong young core has been put in place. And the front edge is just starting to hit their primes. Now Chevy has to turn from gatherer to hunter and obtain the last few supporting pieces.

And most definitely this is a hard organization to cheer for the less patient among us.

 

[Board Bard]

Whether you agree or disagree, you should start wrapping your brain around PMO here for at least one more year......it's all but a given at this point. FYI I accepted it long ago

I wrapped my brain around it a long time ago, probably before you did. It's the way Jets management rolls, or stumbles if you will. Doesn't mean I can't want him fired.

 

[Gm0ney]

The biggest glaring issue the organization has had since they arrived is a lack of high end talent, and they have been addressing that one draft at a time. Scheifele, Trouba, Morrissey, Ehlers, Connor, Roslovic, Laine. Lowry and the rest of the 3rd line plays above their station because we don't yet have players ready to replace them. Maybe Roslovic and Connor are ready to change that. Lowry then becomes a very nice #4 C. Why spend resources to shore up the gaps before your engine is ready to race. A mistake was made thinking a goalie would naturally develop along side your skaters. This needs to be corrected. But IMO we contend on the back of our young core and it looks like they are just about there. Now you spend your excess assets to shore up holes. A couple years back the holes far exceeded the players in place that could help you contend. Why spend the assets you need today to shore up a team with no where near the needed pieces then?

Depth was actually the big issue with the franchise when it moved to Winnipeg. This team arrived here with Ladd, Little, Wheeler, Kane, Byfuglien, and Enstrom...all 25 or younger. Bottom 6 and goaltending sucked. Management squandered their primes with bad coaching and goaltending. Luckily, they didn't squander the high draft picks that bad coaching and goaltending brought them.

I guess we'll see if the gang who couldn't figure out Pavelec was a bad goaltender for 5 years can solve the goaltending problem now. Same group that couldn't figure out Noel was a bad coach for 2.5 years seems fine with moving forward with terrible special teams, discipline, systems that don't align with the talent on the team... Gee, why are people annoyed?

Oh, it's Chipman's vision! Well, then...

 

[surixon]

Depth was actually the big issue with the franchise when it moved to Winnipeg. This team arrived here with Ladd, Little, Wheeler, Kane, Byfuglien, and Enstrom...all 25 or younger. Bottom 6 and goaltending sucked. Management squandered their primes with bad coaching and goaltending. Luckily, they didn't squander the high draft picks that bad coaching and goaltending brought them.

I guess we'll see if the gang who couldn't figure out Pavelec was a bad goaltender for 5 years can solve the goaltending problem now. Same group that couldn't figure out Noel was a bad coach for 2.5 years seems fine with moving forward with terrible special teams, discipline, systems that don't align with the talent on the team... Gee, why are people annoyed?

Oh, it's Chipman's vision! Well, then...

Wheeler was a 40 point player when he got here. LADD had one 50 point year under his belt. Bogo was a huge disappointment at the time.

There wasn't a lot of high end talent when the team got here and zero org depth to supplement the good but not great talent we started with.

We have substantially more high end talent now and we also have significantly more organizational depth if Maurice would utilize it correctly. We just need a goalie.

 

[Whileee]

Depth was actually the big issue with the franchise when it moved to Winnipeg. This team arrived here with Ladd, Little, Wheeler, Kane, Byfuglien, and Enstrom...all 25 or younger. Bottom 6 and goaltending sucked. Management squandered their primes with bad coaching and goaltending. Luckily, they didn't squander the high draft picks that bad coaching and goaltending brought them.

I guess we'll see if the gang who couldn't figure out Pavelec was a bad goaltender for 5 years can solve the goaltending problem now. Same group that couldn't figure out Noel was a bad coach for 2.5 years seems fine with moving forward with terrible special teams, discipline, systems that don't align with the talent on the team... Gee, why are people annoyed?

Oh, it's Chipman's vision! Well, then...

With no depth and nothing in the prospect pipeline, how exactly would you have suggested that the Jets supplement their relatively small core in the first few years? Trade draft picks? Overpay for UFAs?

 

[Jetsfan87]

I'd say that if we were any other organization in the NHL this next season would be the make or break for the coaching/head office staff. Ownership and fans have been patient but this team should be in the playoffs. But we are the Jets and Chevy/PMO must have some pictures ownership doesnt want getting out or soemthing.....

 

[Blue Shakehead]

With no depth and nothing in the prospect pipeline, how exactly would you have suggested that the Jets supplement their relatively small core in the first few years? Trade draft picks? Overpay for UFAs?

The market price for replacement goaltenders and depth players is late round picks and/or less than $2M in free agency but keep pretending that the only option we ever had was the path that Chevy has been bumbling his way down.

 

[Aavco Cup]

The market price for replacement goaltenders and depth players is late round picks and/or less than $2M in free agency but keep pretending that the only option we ever had was the path that Chevy has been bumbling his way down.

The goaltending was really just one big huge gamble/mistake contract. Time has now fixed the "Pavelec" problem. Backup goaltending was really only a problem Year 1 and year 6.

The other big "mistake" was the Stuart contract. Most GM's have their own fair share of mistakes.

 

[Weezeric]

The market price for replacement goaltenders and depth players is late round picks and/or less than $2M in free agency but keep pretending that the only option we ever had was the path that Chevy has been bumbling his way down.

Sure, could've done that. You wouldn't have Ehlers or Laine or trouba though. And you wouldn't ever win a cup that way.

 

[Blue Shakehead]

The goaltending was really just one big huge gamble/mistake contract. Time has now fixed the "Pavelec" problem. Backup goaltending was really only a problem Year 1 and year 6.

The other big "mistake" was the Stuart contract. Most GM's have their own fair share of mistakes.

This assumes we live in a world where once a mistake is made, we are locked into that mistake and need to kick rocks for half a decade waiting for the mistake to fix itself.

Of course, that also assumes, our organization can recognize a mistake when they made one. Last summer, PoMo was talking about Stuart as a potential captain. Two years ago Chevy was puffing out his chest after Pavelec's fluke season and said he was just coming into his prime.