Speculation: Jets General Rumour, Trade, Free Agent and Waiver Speculation 15-16 Part XIV

[sully1410]

I give Lindholm a bit of an edge because he has actually done what we think Trouba would have done with similar opportunity. But the difference is small.

As in miniscule. If at all. With this great opportunity that the ducks have given him, Trouba has still outscored him at Ev strength and he only got 7 more points than Trouba this year...despite playing more time on the PP. The top ranked PP in the league.

 

[CaptainChef]

As in miniscule. If at all. With this great opportunity that the ducks have given him, Trouba has still outscored him at Ev strength and he only got 7 more points than Trouba this year...despite playing more time on the PP. The top ranked PP in the league.

Yep, been saying all along that I would not add anything if we were to trade for Lindholm. In general RHD are in much shorter supply than LHD, so there is a premium for RHD as well.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

As in miniscule. If at all. With this great opportunity that the ducks have given him, Trouba has still outscored him at Ev strength and he only got 7 more points than Trouba this year...despite playing more time on the PP. The top ranked PP in the league.

In assessing value for trade purposes I give Trouba bonus points for being a righty. Everywhere but Winnipeg RHD are hard to find. Just my personal opinion but I think that is enough to make them as close as doesn't matter to equal value. I assume we are the ones initiating a trade though. We have to provide Anaheim with an incentive so I include a moderate add. Give them a choice among 2-3 of our young F prospects not named Ehlers, Laine or Connor. Pretty sure some here would object to giving that much. I admit it would be a bit of an overpay but it would solve a lot of issues for us so is worth it.

 

[sully1410]

In assessing value for trade purposes I give Trouba bonus points for being a righty. Everywhere but Winnipeg RHD are hard to find. Just my personal opinion but I think that is enough to make them as close as doesn't matter to equal value. I assume we are the ones initiating a trade though. We have to provide Anaheim with an incentive so I include a moderate add. Give them a choice among 2-3 of our young F prospects not named Ehlers, Laine or Connor. Pretty sure some here would object to giving that much. I admit it would be a bit of an overpay but it would solve a lot of issues for us so is worth it.

I wouldn't even do that...but I hear you that we would be adding in that scenario. I think onow the dust settles...Trouba will be the better player

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I wouldn't even do that...but I hear you that we would be adding in that scenario. I think onow the dust settles...Trouba will be the better player

That might be a bit of a stretch. Not impossible though. In the real world it is hard enough to defend the idea that they are equal no matter how much we may believe in our case. I think we have to at least acknowledge that the existing perception is built on actual performances. We also need to recognize that the add in this case is still an unproven player. We are asking Anaheim to assume some risk.

I'd do Lindholm for Trouba + Lemieux all day. We are very high on Lemieux here right now but looking at D, D+1, D+2 his performance is almost exactly the same as Lipon's. His production is less than Kosmo's was. Just for a little perspective. So it really isn't all that much of an add. Our RHD then is Buff, Myers, Postma. Our left side is then Lindholm, Enstrom, Morrissey, Chiarot in any order you like.

TBH though that is not my first choice by any means. I much prefer keeping Trouba and dangling Myers + for a top 4 LHD prospect. If we did Trouba for Lindholm our right side suddenly doesn't look all that great and RHD are harder to find. That trade option is only if Trouba is going to be too hard to sign.

 

[Whileee]

That might be a bit of a stretch. Not impossible though. In the real world it is hard enough to defend the idea that they are equal no matter how much we may believe in our case. I think we have to at least acknowledge that the existing perception is built on actual performances. We also need to recognize that the add in this case is still an unproven player. We are asking Anaheim to assume some risk.

I'd do Lindholm for Trouba + Lemieux all day. We are very high on Lemieux here right now but looking at D, D+1, D+2 his performance is almost exactly the same as Lipon's. His production is less than Kosmo's was. Just for a little perspective. So it really isn't all that much of an add. Our RHD then is Buff, Myers, Postma. Our left side is then Lindholm, Enstrom, Morrissey, Chiarot in any order you like.

TBH though that is not my first choice by any means. I much prefer keeping Trouba and dangling Myers + for a top 4 LHD prospect. If we did Trouba for Lindholm our right side suddenly doesn't look all that great and RHD are harder to find. That trade option is only if Trouba is going to be too hard to sign.

I think Lemieux is a much better prospect than either Lipon or Kosmachuk.

 

[GJF]

I think Lemieux is a much better prospect than either Lipon or Kosmachuk.

Draft positions alone clearly say "Yes".

 

[sully1410]

That might be a bit of a stretch. Not impossible though. In the real world it is hard enough to defend the idea that they are equal no matter how much we may believe in our case. I think we have to at least acknowledge that the existing perception is built on actual performances. We also need to recognize that the add in this case is still an unproven player. We are asking Anaheim to assume some risk.

I'd do Lindholm for Trouba + Lemieux all day. We are very high on Lemieux here right now but looking at D, D+1, D+2 his performance is almost exactly the same as Lipon's. His production is less than Kosmo's was. Just for a little perspective. So it really isn't all that much of an add. Our RHD then is Buff, Myers, Postma. Our left side is then Lindholm, Enstrom, Morrissey, Chiarot in any order you like.

TBH though that is not my first choice by any means. I much prefer keeping Trouba and dangling Myers + for a top 4 LHD prospect. If we did Trouba for Lindholm our right side suddenly doesn't look all that great and RHD are harder to find. That trade option is only if Trouba is going to be too hard to sign.

How is it a stretch? Trouba has been close to or better than Lindholm thus far

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think Lemieux is a much better prospect than either Lipon or Kosmachuk.

I don't disagree. But just looking at statistics till D+2, which is all we have for Lemieux, the 3 look pretty similar. Just putting Lemieux into perspective.

If we were actually making that deal and I got to choose who the add would be from among those 3 it would easily be Lipon, then Kosmo before Lemieux.

 

[ps241]

I don't disagree. But just looking at statistics till D+2, which is all we have for Lemieux, the 3 look pretty similar. Just putting Lemieux into perspective.

If we were actually making that deal and I got to choose who the add would be from among those 3 it would easily be Lipon, then Kosmo before Lemieux.

I would probably rank the three that way too but I feel Lemieux is our most overrated prospect currently. Lipon put up 42 points in 72 games as a rookie in the AHL but since then the team has gone in the tank and JC appears to have regressed. Funny how that happens and all prospects don't make it? For whatever reason a large portion of our fan base feel it's a matter of when not if with Brendan whereas I still have him squarely in the "if" camp. Lipon grew late but he was great in what would have been his draft plus 2 season and was the heart and soul of Kamloops, made Canada's world junior team, and he is was a pest and a better and more willing fighter than Lemmy. Kosmo put up 100 + points and was a better goal scorer and a better fighter than Lemiuex as well. Brendan may make it but he is far from blue chip and has done nothing up to this point of his career to separate himself from where Lipon or Kosmo were at the same age except for having a legend for a dad IMO. Hopefully he makes me eat my words but being a head case is not an asset it's a liability.

 

[KingBogo]

I would probably rank the three that way too but I feel Lemieux is our most overrated prospect currently. Lipon put up 42 points in 72 games as a rookie in the AHL but since then the team has gone in the tank and JC appears to have regressed. Funny how that happens and all prospects don't make it? For whatever reason a large portion of our fan base feel it's a matter of when not if with Brendan whereas I still have him squarely in the "if" camp. Lipon grew late but he was great in what would have been his draft plus 2 season and was the heart and soul of Kamloops, made Canada's world junior team, and he is was a pest and a better and more willing fighter than Lemmy. Kosmo put up 100 + points and was a better goal scorer and a better fighter than Lemiuex as well. Brendan may make it but he is far from blue chip and has done nothing up to this point of his career to separate himself from where Lipon or Kosmo were at the same age except for having a legend for a dad IMO. Hopefully he makes me eat my words but being a head case is not an asset it's a liability.

Personally I'd put Lemieux safely ahead of Lipon and Kossy as a prospect. Can't really comment on the fighting part, though Lemieux has a reputation of being an in your face agitator as does Lipon. But Lemieux is a much bigger and imposing. Points wise I think you are giving Lipon a bit of the benefit of the doubt. Wasn't he drafted as a 20 y/o 2 years after his draft class. When he was 18 wasn't he a 20 point player in junior? Kossy was the best scorer of the 3 in junior but Lemieux wasn't far behind, but Kossy really hasn't done much 2 years in the A. For now Lemieux is just entering his window of opportunity. If after 2-3 years on the Moose he is bouncing around as a 30-40 point guy, not offering anything special, the bloom will be off his rose as well.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Personally I'd put Lemieux safely ahead of Lipon and Kossy as a prospect. Can't really comment on the fighting part, though Lemieux has a reputation of being an in your face agitator as does Lipon. But Lemieux is a much bigger and imposing. Points wise I think you are giving Lipon a bit of the benefit of the doubt. Wasn't he drafted as a 20 y/o 2 years after his draft class. When he was 18 wasn't he a 20 point player in junior? Kossy was the best scorer of the 3 in junior but Lemieux wasn't far behind, but Kossy really hasn't done much 2 years in the A. For now Lemieux is just entering his window of opportunity. If after 2-3 years on the Moose he is bouncing around as a 30-40 point guy, not offering anything special, the bloom will be off his rose as well.

For Lipon I counted the 2 years before he was drafted as D and D+1 just as though he had been drafted when first eligible. Lemieux - 167 gms, 175 pts. Lipon - 195 gms, 175 pts. Kosmachuk - 203 gms, 225 pts. In their last years of junior their ppg were; Lemieux 1.378, Lipon 1.459, Kosmachuk 1.485. So Lipon was a bit of a late bloomer, 1 year behind but by D+2 had cleanly passed Lemieux and almost caught up to Kosmachuk. Lipon's AHL scoring dropped off in his 2nd year in the AHL but that was the last year in St. John's and nobody scored. He rebounded last year to a better ppg than in his rookie year even though it was still a terrible team. So still progressing. He was not out of place in his NHL time.

Lipon was passed over in the draft, twice then taken 91 OA. Just for fun I went and looked at the players taken 90, 91, & 92 in the '11 draft when he would normally have gone. None of them has done as well so far as Lipon has. His production in the A last year was better and he is the only 1 to have scored a pt. in the NHL. He has 9 NHL games. The other 3 have 9, 6, and 0 respectively.

All the data we have on Lemieux is up to D+2. Looking at Lipon and Kosmachuk to D+2 they have both outperformed Lemieux to that point. So why does everyone want to rate Lemieux so much higher? His heritage must play a part.

 

[Peggy]

We have a ton of young forwards who could add depth to other teams at a cheap cost. I think we should eventually start moving them(when?). They all won't be playing for the Jets

 

[Koonta]

I thought Kossy was quite good in his callup to the Jets last year. Now whether that can be duplicated or he continues that in any future call-ups is left to be seen.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I thought Kossy was quite good in his callup to the Jets last year. Now whether that can be duplicated or he continues that in any future call-ups is left to be seen.

Lipon did well too and I am looking forward to seeing Lemieux get his first taste, hopefully this year.

 

[Dirty30]

Could you imagine a fourth line of Lipon-Lowry-Lemieux? That would be one heck of a s**t disturbing line lol

 

[KingBogo]

For Lipon I counted the 2 years before he was drafted as D and D+1 just as though he had been drafted when first eligible. Lemieux - 167 gms, 175 pts. Lipon - 195 gms, 175 pts. Kosmachuk - 203 gms, 225 pts. In their last years of junior their ppg were; Lemieux 1.378, Lipon 1.459, Kosmachuk 1.485. So Lipon was a bit of a late bloomer, 1 year behind but by D+2 had cleanly passed Lemieux and almost caught up to Kosmachuk. Lipon's AHL scoring dropped off in his 2nd year in the AHL but that was the last year in St. John's and nobody scored. He rebounded last year to a better ppg than in his rookie year even though it was still a terrible team. So still progressing. He was not out of place in his NHL time.

Lipon was passed over in the draft, twice then taken 91 OA. Just for fun I went and looked at the players taken 90, 91, & 92 in the '11 draft when he would normally have gone. None of them has done as well so far as Lipon has. His production in the A last year was better and he is the only 1 to have scored a pt. in the NHL. He has 9 NHL games. The other 3 have 9, 6, and 0 respectively.

All the data we have on Lemieux is up to D+2. Looking at Lipon and Kosmachuk to D+2 they have both outperformed Lemieux to that point. So why does everyone want to rate Lemieux so much higher? His heritage must play a part.

Except Lemieux is 20 y/o on the front end of his ELC gaining rave reviews from the coaching staff. Lipon is sitting at age 23 y/o likely IMO with his next contract being held up because the team is pushing for a 2-way. Lipon saw the make or break ELC development years slip by. Now it gets to be really tough sledding for prospects trying to make their mark. If in 3 years Lemieux is in the same position I'll say the same about him. Most players in these positions never become regulars. Age alone puts Lemieux in much better position to take the next step. Add in a size advantage and draft pedigree and I see Lemieux as a prospect with a much greater chance of success at this point.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Except Lemieux is 20 y/o on the front end of his ELC gaining rave reviews from the coaching staff. Lipon is sitting at age 23 y/o likely IMO with his next contract being held up because the team is pushing for a 2-way. Lipon saw the make or break ELC development years slip by. Now it gets to be really tough sledding for prospects trying to make their mark. If in 3 years Lemieux is in the same position I'll say the same about him. Most players in these positions never become regulars. Age alone puts Lemieux in much better position to take the next step. Add in a size advantage and draft pedigree and I see Lemieux as a prospect with a much greater chance of success at this point.

No argument. I only said that Lipon and Kosmo were ahead of Lemieux when they were where he is now. There was never as much enthusiasm for them as there is now for him.

 

[KingBogo]

No argument. I only said that Lipon and Kosmo were ahead of Lemieux when they were where he is now. There was never as much enthusiasm for them as there is now for him.

By the end of this season we should have a much better idea if that enthusiasm is warranted.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

By the end of this season we should have a much better idea if that enthusiasm is warranted.

Yup. I still rate Lemieux above the others too. There is a lot of potential there.

 

[ps241]

Personally I'd put Lemieux safely ahead of Lipon and Kossy as a prospect. Can't really comment on the fighting part, though Lemieux has a reputation of being an in your face agitator as does Lipon. But Lemieux is a much bigger and imposing. Points wise I think you are giving Lipon a bit of the benefit of the doubt. Wasn't he drafted as a 20 y/o 2 years after his draft class. When he was 18 wasn't he a 20 point player in junior? Kossy was the best scorer of the 3 in junior but Lemieux wasn't far behind, but Kossy really hasn't done much 2 years in the A. For now Lemieux is just entering his window of opportunity. If after 2-3 years on the Moose he is bouncing around as a 30-40 point guy, not offering anything special, the bloom will be off his rose as well.

What I was trying to say in a pretty clunky way is I think they all had similar seasons as 19/20 year olds in their last year of juniors in fact Lemieux might have been the most disappointing of the three (traded from a top contender then bounced in the first round).

Woops looks like Mort was making this same point.

Now Lemieux has the advantage today because he has yet to play his 2 and 3 seasons after juniors like the other boys so he has hope on his side and a better last name. I realize where he was drafted and am hoping he develops but I just think he is being given too much hype based on his results to date.

Time will tell though.

 

[Aavco Cup]

Chevy......his value has never been higher.....just sayin'

 

[DRC]

Chevy......his value has never been higher.....just sayin'

It is his contract year... Buffalo fans always say he's money in said year.
He might be lights out.

 

[drumzan]

Could you imagine a fourth line of Lipon-Lowry-Lemieux? That would be one heck of a s**t disturbing line lol

4th LLLine.

 

[DEANYOUNGBLOOD17]

It is his contract year... Buffalo fans always say he's money in said year.
He might be lights out.

I hope this is true and Stafford has his best season to date and has 30 goals potted just b4 the trade deadline......

This would sway that Evader Kane trade a little in our favour............ I would not mind the Jets having another late 1 St rounder for a third year in a row.