Speculation: Jets General Rumour, Trade, Free Agent and Waiver Speculation 15-16 Part XII

[mcpw]

Not sure how the Jets view the Stafford situation, I would think he was signed to a 2 year deal originally to bridge the gap until Connor at the time was ready but something unexpected happened and they won the 2nd overall pick in the lottery, guaranteeing themselves yet another winger (laine or puljujarvi).

It's interesting if you look at our roster, i'm not sure stafford fits in anywhere, he's not a top line player, not sure he's even a top 6 with the young talent coming up, altho knowing maurice he's probably slotted as the second line RW, Lowry and Stafford looked brutal last year so he's not really an option for 3rd line and definitely not a 4th line option either.. . where does he fit? He doesn't and i think it's very likely that they will trade him at the draft, i think they might trade a few players at the draft actually, no big names or anything but guys like Stafford,Burmi,Peluso,Postma,Chiarot, guys of that nature could very well be on the move.

Not sure what keeping stafford around does exactly besides block players who have a future here. Stafford doesn't, he was signed to a 2 year deal for a reason, he's not expansion fodder, he's nothing really, he serves no purpose, much like Pavelec actually, originally i thought, hey stafford pavelec, these guys are perfect to have for the expansion draft but the rules changed and these guys don't really count, so right now, I'm trying to figure out what purpose they serve and i can't really think of anything.

Pavelec? I mean, couldn't you just sign a backup goalie to a 2 year deal instead? Stafford? Wheeler,Ehlers,Connor,Perreault as wingers i don't see a fit, i know everyone loves to put Perreault at center but he more than likely will be playing wing... wheres stafford fit? Dano? Armia? I mean, stafford just doesn't fit anymore.

I don't understand this.

Last game of last season:

Ehlers-Scheifele-Wheeler 23min
Dano-Burmistrov-Stafford 15min
Tanev-Lowry-Thorburn 14min
Petan-Copp-Armia 12min

Replace Stafford and Tanev with Laine and Connor? That lineup is not good. Just two injuries will do that.

Depth = important. Depth also means that you don't have to run

Chiarot-Byfuglien
Stuart-Trouba
Melchiori-Postma

Uhhhhhh .... nooooo.

I didn't say give away. I said trade. Stafford is not our depth. Oh wait, I see. This is about composition. I will rephrase. Trade Stafford and sign no UFA. Better?

Stafford is our depth. What do you expect? Some draft pick?

 

[Gabe Kupari]

Stafford is just wasting a spot and i don't really care what anyone says otherwise, perhaps i'm looking to the future here a little to much and should be looking to next season but i still don't think, even with stafford, this team is a legit playoff threat this season either.

By the time the team is ready for the playoffs, Guys like Stafford and the sorts, they won't be here.

 

[mcpw]

Stafford is just wasting a spot and i don't really care what anyone says otherwise, perhaps i'm looking to the future here a little to much and should be looking to next season but i still don't think, even with stafford, this team is a legit playoff threat this season either.

By the time the team is ready for the playoffs, Guys like Stafford and the sorts, they won't be here.

Stafford is occupying the spot Thorburn would occupy if he were gone.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Not sure how the Jets view the Stafford situation, I would think he was signed to a 2 year deal originally to bridge the gap until Connor at the time was ready but something unexpected happened and they won the 2nd overall pick in the lottery, guaranteeing themselves yet another winger (laine or puljujarvi).

It's interesting if you look at our roster, i'm not sure stafford fits in anywhere, he's not a top line player, not sure he's even a top 6 with the young talent coming up, altho knowing maurice he's probably slotted as the second line RW, Lowry and Stafford looked brutal last year so he's not really an option for 3rd line and definitely not a 4th line option either.. . where does he fit? He doesn't and i think it's very likely that they will trade him at the draft, i think they might trade a few players at the draft actually, no big names or anything but guys like Stafford,Burmi,Peluso,Postma,Chiarot, guys of that nature could very well be on the move.

Not sure what keeping stafford around does exactly besides block players who have a future here. Stafford doesn't, he was signed to a 2 year deal for a reason, he's not expansion fodder, he's nothing really, he serves no purpose, much like Pavelec actually, originally i thought, hey stafford pavelec, these guys are perfect to have for the expansion draft but the rules changed and these guys don't really count, so right now, I'm trying to figure out what purpose they serve and i can't really think of anything.

Pavelec? I mean, couldn't you just sign a backup goalie to a 2 year deal instead? Stafford? Wheeler,Ehlers,Connor,Perreault as wingers i don't see a fit, i know everyone loves to put Perreault at center but he more than likely will be playing wing... wheres stafford fit? Dano? Armia? I mean, stafford just doesn't fit anymore.

I certainly hope that Maurice has gone through the same exercise and informed Chevy that if Stafford is not moved he will be forced to sit 4.35 mil in the press box.

Chevy should also be doing the same thing for himself and there just doesn't seem to be any other conclusion possible. If Stafford is not moved he is not making us better this year and he is blocking a player who has a role in winning the cup here someday.

Pavelec serves no useful purpose here either but that is another story.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I don't understand this.

Last game of last season:

Ehlers-Scheifele-Wheeler 23min
Dano-Burmistrov-Stafford 15min
Tanev-Lowry-Thorburn 14min
Petan-Copp-Armia 12min

Replace Stafford and Tanev with Laine and Connor? That lineup is not good. Just two injuries will do that.

Depth = important. Depth also means that you don't have to run

Chiarot-Byfuglien
Stuart-Trouba
Melchiori-Postma



Stafford is our depth. What do you expect? Some draft pick?

No, he is not. He is a roadblock
Perreault, Laine, Connor, Lowry at LW
Scheifele, Little, Burmi, Copp at C
Wheeler, Ehlers, Dano, Armia at RW
Thorburn in the PB

Petan, Peluso, Tanev, Lipon, Kosmachuk, Lemieux, De Leo in the AHL provide forward depth.

Our depth at D is Chiarot and Stuart in the PB followed by Melchiori and Kostalek with the Moose. I'm not happy with the depth at D but having Stafford around doesn't affect that.

Stafford is not going to sit in the press box and he diminishes any line he is put on. Not because he is a bad player as some have said. He is not. But he is no longer a fit with the rest of our roster. He is a one dimensional player who needs to be sheltered. That requires putting him in a position where he is in the way of a better player.

 

[SLAYER]

I certainly hope that Maurice has gone through the same exercise and informed Chevy that if Stafford is not moved he will be forced to sit 4.35 mil in the press box.

Chevy should also be doing the same thing for himself and there just doesn't seem to be any other conclusion possible. If Stafford is not moved he is not making us better this year and he is blocking a player who has a role in winning the cup here someday.

Pavelec serves no useful purpose here either but that is another story.

lolwut you think that we have 12 better F's than Stafford? The dude just came off of a 21 goal season, why would Mo sit him?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Stafford is occupying the spot Thorburn would occupy if he were gone.

If that were true I would agree that Stafford should be kept but i don't believe it. Thor either gets a 4th line spot or he doesn't. Stafford being here has no effect on that either way. That depends only on Maurice's love for Thor.

 

[mcpw]

No, he is not. He is a roadblock
Perreault, Laine, Connor, Lowry at LW
Scheifele, Little, Burmi, Copp at C
Wheeler, Ehlers, Dano, Armia at RW
Thorburn in the PB

Petan, Peluso, Tanev, Lipon, Kosmachuk, Lemieux, De Leo in the AHL provide forward depth.

The bolded combine for 174 career points in 620 career games. That's a pace of 23 points over 82 games. Yikes!

Stafford is not going to sit in the press box and he diminishes any line he is put on.

That has been Lowry's job last season.

He is a one dimensional player who needs to be sheltered.

Other one-dimensional players include Lowry, Burmistrov, Copp, Armia, Thorburn, Lipon. They lack the offensive dimension. Copp and Armia I have some faith that they can add it.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

lolwut you think that we have 12 better F's than Stafford? The dude just came off of a 21 goal season, why would Mo sit him?

Yes. We don't have 12 forwards who will all score 21+ goals. Is that all there is? Mau wouldn't sit him. If he is here Mau will play him somewhere that blocks a better player. We will be a poorer team with him in the lineup.

The bolded combine for 174 career points in 620 career games. That's a pace of 23 points over 82 games. Yikes!



That has been Lowry's job last season.



Other one-dimensional players include Lowry, Burmistrov, Copp, Armia, Thorburn, Lipon. They lack the offensive dimension. Copp and Armia I have some faith that they can add it.

You are arguing against the youth movement. That ship has sailed.

What are you saying was Thor's job last season? Diminishing any line he is on? Is that really a necessary job?

How many points do you think Stafford produces playing in the bottom 6 with no PP time?

None of those players is as 1 dimensional as stafford is. They may be somewhat 1 dimensional. That's why they play in the bottom 6.

Where do you see Stafford fitting into the lineup where he does not make the team weaker overall? 2RW? That forces Ehlers to stay at LW where he is less effective. That in turn pushes MP to 3C where he is less effective unless you play Laine at 3RW where he is less effective. That in turn pushes Connor to 2LW unless you want 2 rookie wingers on the same line. Connor at 2LW is being diminished by being on the same line as Stafford. On and On. Around and around.

3RW? He has been terrible in a 3rd line role. Who are his linemates there? Are they players who can be compatible with him? 3LW is even worse. We certainly can't use him on either the first or fourth lines.

That's more or less my take. Where do you see him fitting?

 

[Whileee]

The bolded combine for 174 career points in 620 career games. That's a pace of 23 points over 82 games. Yikes!

That has been Lowry's job last season.

Other one-dimensional players include Lowry, Burmistrov, Copp, Armia, Thorburn, Lipon. They lack the offensive dimension. Copp and Armia I have some faith that they can add it.

Play Stafford on the 3rd line or lower and take away his PP points and I don't think he gives you much more. He can't kill penalties, and he is a defensive liability. He is fine on a team starved for goals that can use him enough in the top-6 and on the PP. I don't think that'll be the Jets with Laine and Connor and Ehlers starting to take prominent offensive roles.

You could keep him as a depth offensive player, but even then I'm not convinced he will give you more than Dano or Petan, or maybe even Armia, with the same opportunities.

 

[winnipegger]

A lot of these things will be sorted out in camp in September. I get the feeling it will be a very competitive camp, including goaltending. There hasn't been this much talent knocking on the door since the team came back.

Scheif
Little
Lowry
Copp

down the middle and the plethora of wingers will be distributed around them, question is how.

 

[Grind]

No chance Lowry given the third line center spot out of the gate based on his last season.

I imagine we see both copp and lowry on the fourth with burmi centering the third with Perrault

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

The bolded combine for 174 career points in 620 career games. That's a pace of 23 points over 82 games. Yikes!



That has been Lowry's job last season.



Other one-dimensional players include Lowry, Burmistrov, Copp, Armia, Thorburn, Lipon. They lack the offensive dimension. Copp and Armia I have some faith that they can add it.

I think another way to look at it would be to make up a lineup with Stafford in. I can do that easily and it will look pretty good. Start with;
Ehlers - Scheif - Wheeler
Perreault - Little - Stafford
That's not a bad top 6 and I could do 1 or 2 others that would look good too.

But I have to think about what I am NOT doing because Stafford is there. I am not doing the best job of bringing Ehlers, Laine and Connor into positions where they will have the most success. I am not making the best possible use of several other players, including 2-3 that you don't seem to like. You might like them better if they are used better.

 

[Puckatron 3000]

I think we're better with Stafford in the line-up next year than without. But it does cost us a year of developing one of the younger guys, who may be an important part of our future (which Stafford is not).

I do agree he is the most difficult piece of the puzzle to fit in. Probably 2nd line, which does have a domino effect. However, that domino effect probably makes our 3rd and 4th lines better, not worse. I definitely keep him on the PP, he's good there.

That all being said, I'd have no problem trading him for a reasonable offer. But I wouldn't dump him for nothing.

Pushing Thorburn off the starting roster is a far greater priority than moving Stafford.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

No chance Lowry given the third line center spot out of the gate based on his last season.

I imagine we see both copp and lowry on the fourth with burmi centering the third with Perrault

Don't disagree but how about Lowry at 3C based on the last half season? Or based on an improved Lowry in TC/exhibitions?

I've made up lineups with Lowry at 3LW and 3C but most often he seems to fit best at 4LW. 4C is possible but Burmi and Copp are both possibilities there too.

 

[Puckatron 3000]

3C is a huge question mark. I'd say 5 reasonable candidates. Burmi, Perreault, Lowry, Copp, and Petan.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think we're better with Stafford in the line-up next year than without. But it does cost us a year of developing one of the younger guys, who may be an important part of our future (which Stafford is not).

I do agree he is the most difficult piece of the puzzle to fit in. Probably 2nd line, which does have a domino effect. However, that domino effect probably makes our 3rd and 4th lines better, not worse. I definitely keep him on the PP, he's good there.

That all being said, I'd have no problem trading him for a reasonable offer. But I wouldn't dump him for nothing.

Pushing Thorburn off the starting roster is a far greater priority than moving Stafford.

You could be right. I started thinking that way but couldn't fit him in anywhere but 2RW. So, OK 2RW it is. Then we won the lottery and he didn't even fit there very well anymore either. Stafford might make us a little better at the beginning of the season when Laine and Connor are adjusting to the NHL but he makes us worse after one or both of them is ready to move up. He is occupying Ehlers' spot. Do we move Laine and Connor up to top 6 and Ehlers to 3LW? I don't think so!

That domino effect doesn't push Thor out. He is out already unless Maurice's Thor love keeps him there. In that case he is there with or without Stafford because it is irrational anyway. Thor should be on the roster but in the PB. So who gets pushed out? Lowry or Armia who will not clear waivers or Dano who is too good not to play for the Jets but is waiver exempt.

Keeping Stafford creates a real mess and might cost us a better player.

 

[JetsHomer]

Stafford is fine as a depth top 9 player. Do you guys live in a world where Jets players never get injured or something?

 

[Rheged]

Imagine for a second.. Eric Staal on a reasonable AAV 1 to 2 year contract for 3C.

He's still a very strong possession player and wouldn't need to be a big offensive producer here. Just think about the kind of opportunities Scheifele + the top line could get if you had Little and Staal to roll out against opposing teams toughs. You'd have to leave him exposed to expansion and risk losing him there but man I think that could lead to an insane top 9.

I'm sure the reality though is that Vancouver or someone like that will still give him a pretty big contract and try to make him a premier player on their team.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Stafford is fine as a depth top 9 player. Do you guys live in a world where Jets players never get injured or something?

You want to pay 4.35 mil to a top 9 depth player?

How is he fine in that role anyway? He is so bad defensively that he has to be sheltered both in usage and in linemates. That is not a description of a good depth player or a good injury replacement player. For that role you want the exact opposite of Stafford. You want a defensively responsible and effective player who can fit in wherever he is needed. Burmi is far better in that role. Frolik was outstanding used that way. Lowry would be better in that role than Stafford. As would several others. Stafford is useless on the 3rd line, horrible at LW and a defensive liability wherever he is used.

 

[Puckatron 3000]

Yeah, not everybody fits into the starting roster. Likely one of the waver exempt guys gets jacked and starts on the Moose.

Still, we have a lot of young guys coming in. It wouldn't surprise me if somebody stumbles. Look at Petan's start last season. Or Lowry's mid-season demotion. And of course JetsHomer's point about injuries. The extra guy on the Moose is insurance. Still sucks for that player, but if you want a forward slot on the Jets, you gotta steal it or wait your turn.

Of course, it's still a great debate about who else should or shouldn't make the team.

 

[garret9]

Stafford is fine as a depth top 9 player. Do you guys live in a world where Jets players never get injured or something?

It's not that Stafford is bad. It's that he is expendable given the Jets winger depth of similar calibre players but who are much cheeper.

Ex:

 

[JetsHomer]

It's not that Stafford is bad. It's that he is expendable given the Jets winger depth of similar calibre players but who are much cheeper.

Ex:

I don't think the Jets will want to retain 50% of Stafford's salary (which would probably be needed to move him) or to replace his presence with more young wingers. The team is already going to be really young next year, some of the the young guys are going to start on the Moose.

 

[mcpw]

You want to pay 4.35 mil to a top 9 depth player?

I don't care how much he's paid. Play him on the fourth line if that's how your depth chart looks like.

How is he fine in that role anyway? He is so bad defensively that he has to be sheltered both in usage and in linemates. That is not a description of a good depth player or a good injury replacement player. For that role you want the exact opposite of Stafford. You want a defensively responsible and effective player who can fit in wherever he is needed. Burmi is far better in that role. Frolik was outstanding used that way. Lowry would be better in that role than Stafford. As would several others. Stafford is useless on the 3rd line, horrible at LW and a defensive liability wherever he is used.

We're coming off a season which had
- 82 full games of Chris Scoreburn
- 35 Throwback Thursdays (games with Peluso)
- 30 games of the Hustling Chuck
- 74 games of @ALowsyPlayer17 stinking it up
- 81 games of Burmistrov making no-look-passes to nobody
- 43 and 26 games of Armia and Petan trying to find their NHL game

That was the sorry state of our depth, and a good chunk of the reasons why we finished where we did. Which of these players are "defensively responsible and effective"? Adam "second worst CA60 amongst forwards" Lowry? Nope. If Stafford needs extensive sheltering, what do you call what Petan and Burmistrov need?! As of today, Stafford is better than all of these players. He might not be the best player on the backcheck, but at least he doesn't completely kill the offense of his line.

How I view our winger tiers, assuming those players play wing:
1 - Wheeler Ehlers Perreault - legit top6
2 - Dano - emerging top6
3 - Stafford - bottom9 depth
4 - Armia Petan - emerging bottom9 depth
5 - Lowry Burmistrov - bottom6 reclamation projects
6 - Lipon Kosmachuk DeLeo Tanev - experienced low-upside prospects
7 - Thorburn - proven sub-replacement level
(my definition of "bottom9": if that player plays on your 2nd line, it's not ideal but you're not royally screwed)

Enter Laine and Connor. Laine should (hopefully) be a better player than Stafford right away and join one of the top2 tiers. Connor? Who knows. Could have a Larkin season, but I wouldn't bank on it. Show me 40 quality NHL games and I'll include him in the top2 tiers. As of now, Stafford is (in my opnion) our 6th best winger and should be played accordingly.

"But if he gets ice time one of our young guys won't!" - Boo ****ing hoo. Play that guy on the Moose then. Make him earn it.

"He shouldn't be getting top9 icetime because our young guys will be stuck on the fourth line playing 6 minutes per game" - I showed it before, last game of the season:

Ehlers-Scheifele-Wheeler 23min
Dano-Burmistrov-Stafford 15min
Tanev-Lowry-Thorburn 14min
Petan-Copp-Armia 12min

(keep in mind that was an OT game). Maurice can roll four lines if he wants to.

"He won't do it, though" - ok, fire him then.

"This is all irrelevant because Thorburn and Peluso will make the roster and play games against St. Louis because they're big" - Fire Maurice then.

Honestly, it's time to start winning. Hellebuyck and Laine have arrived and we're one Mark Stuart away from a competitive (in the sense of winning at least one playoff game) roster, with our players only getting better. What do you think you can get for Stafford in a trade right now, with Purcell, McGinn, Fleischmann, Versteeg, Helm, Brouwer, Vrbata, Hudler, Perron, Parenteau, Weise and Matthias available for free? Third round pick? Why do we trade a NHL player for a sub-20%-chance of a NHL player in 4 years? Are we still in phase 1 of the rebuild?

"But we could trade Stafford for a pick and sign Darren Helm instead" - And what do you think that team you want to trade Stafford to could do?

 

[ps241]

It's not that Stafford is bad. It's that he is expendable given the Jets winger depth of similar calibre players but who are much cheeper.

Ex:

Garret why do you think Dano is elite at shot suppression? He clearly dominates Stafford in every area. Hopefull Stafford is moved soon or at the a Trade deadline pending season results.