Speculation: Jets General Rumour, Trade, Free Agent and Waiver Speculation 15-16 (Part VI)

[Jet]

Myers has neither the O acumen nor the D that Buff has, quit kidding yourself. Buff is the best D man on the team and Myers ranks 3rd.

I guess we have our own opinons, but I am not kidding myself.

Byfuglien is miles ahead offensively, but not defensively. Enstrom is our best defenseman, not Byfuglien.

Defense is right in the name of his position, and Byfuglien isn't good at it. I understand the whole concept of spending more time in the opponents end being better than defending in our end, but when we are there, Buff struggles.

 

[10Ducky10]

I would argue he is the best defensively but stats say Enstrom is. Stats don't show the whole picture like intangibles. Buff is smarter than Myers, Better defensively than Myers and miles ahead of him for O too.

Myers is our 3rd RHD.....I can't type this any slower.

 

[Aavco Cup]

Buff >>>>Myers

 

[Snot Rocket]

How long do you wait? He's in his 7th season. When does the switch flip?

I doubt we'd get value back without adding significant prospects as Buffalo did. His value isn't increasing, and is really vested in his contract.

Buffalo was a tire fire for a few years. It's hard to perfect your game when everything around you is falling apart. He started strong in his rookie year, maybe we just call him developmentally delayed.
Forming new habits takes time.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Man every proposal I see involving the Jets people seem to want to give up Myers.

He's not nearly there yet but some of the glimpses of what he can do make me very excited. I feel like he could have Buff offensive impact whilst having a bit more defensive awareness.

Again, he's not nearly there yet but I do not want to give up on him yet. I really like his skillset.

That's the wrong way to see it. Nobody wants to dump Myers to get rid of him but we have 3 RHD for 2 top 4 positions. In a case where Buff isn't a fit he is the logical one to go. He will soon be 26. He is in his 7th NHL season. We are not going to see a lot more improvement in his game. We can still hope for him to recover a bit of the scoring he used to have but I don't expect a lot more than what we are seeing.

 

[roccerfeller]

Buff >>>>Myers

Agreed.

 

[surixon]

How long do you wait? He's in his 7th season. When does the switch flip?

I doubt we'd get value back without adding significant prospects as Buffalo did. His value isn't increasing, and is really vested in his contract.

As has been mentioned he spent a good chunk of his prime development years in that tire fire known as Buffalo.

I believe Chevy even mentioned that they got him as a longer term project. The coaching staff is likely still working with him to get rid of the bad habits learned in Buffalo as well as teaching him new ones. As I said earlier I have seen improvements in his game. If he continues to improve he could be a real quality piece for us.

 

[Whileee]

How steady was Buff as a defenseman at age 25?

 

[Bob E]

Buff >>>>Myers

That's not my take, Aavco.

Offensively, yes. Defensively, it's much closer. Buff can play an ok brand of defense, we just don't see it that often. Buffs positional play in his zone leaves a lot to be desired still, Imo.

Myers has some work to do too, no doubt.

 

[Aavco Cup]

That's not my take, Aavco.

Offensively, yes. Defensively, it's much closer. Buff can play an ok brand of defense, we just don't see it that often. Buffs positional play in his zone leaves a lot to be desired still, Imo.

Myers has some work to do too, no doubt.

Myers makes just as many if not more own zone gaffs and just as many if not more ill advised pinches. Buff is much better in the neutral zone and much better holding the puck in the o zone. He is better with the puck on his stick exiting the zone. Buff is more physical by a lot. Buff spends less time defending because he pushes the play forward. IMO it's no contest.

 

[voyageur]

I think the Jets have to make a move in the New Year. The trade I hope to see is Ladd to Vancouver. Vancouver needs leadership. The Sedins are quiet leaders, Hamhuis is a good leader but worn by a thin defense. The Vancouver faithful would surely welcome a local hockey hero. He would fit it perfectly with the Sedins. Probably earn a good contract consequentially. We have a leader in Wheeler who is ready to take the torch from Ladd. We need the money internally to invest in our core. Buff at $6.5-$6.75 over 5 years would solidify our defense for years to come. Scheif and Trouba represent the foundation of our franchise, literally and figuratively.

The trade I would propose would involve Ladd, Postma (who needs to play to make a career) and Hutch (who would be reunited with his old teammate and friend Matt Bartkowski) for Shinkaruk, Hansen and a defensive prospect.

Maybe we play young and fast down the stretch:

?-Little-Wheeler (I'd like to see Shinkaruk, Petan and Lowry audition for this line).
Perrault-Scheif-Stafford stay intact as our 2nd
Ehlers-Burmi-Hansen could be a skating exhibition on our 3rd, maybe the elder Dane takes the great Dane under his wing.
Lowry/Armia-Copp-Thorburn would be a strong 4th

Defense stays the same, maybe Pardy spells Stuart for the sake of the PK.

Our reserves could be a combination of Pardy/Stuart, Peluso, and a gateway for role players, whether it be the young Armia, the soldier Halischuk, or the consumate pro and coach's favorite Harrison, with the door also open a little more for Morrissey

Adding Hansen would make us a better PK team. He and Burmi would be an excellent first unit PK tandem. Losing Ladd would open the door to Scheif for the 1st PP unit, which would benefit us i think.

Trading Hutch would allow us to have a strong Helleybuck-motivated Pavelec duo down the stretch.

I think we should risk losing our captain and turning over a new leaf to let the youth take flight.

Wheeler as captain seems natural. Buff with an A and a contract would be monumental. Stuart's A seems destined for Scheifele, in my opinion, whether it is sooner or later would depend on the team's response.

 

[GJF]

I like your idea. Not sure how much interest they have for Postma and Hutch though.

 

[Aavco Cup]

Garrioch's sunday column has a few Jet references. He says the Jets and Wild have interest in Johansen

http://www.ottawasun.com/2015/12/19...rtunes?token=22c731ab29beb73b22d0da52c3ba5fec

It could get messy in Winnipeg. The Jets aren’t close to getting unrestricted free agents Andrew Ladd and Dustin Byfuglien along with restricted free agent Jacob Trouba signed and nobody is happy the negotiations went public last week with their demands attached. The organization could be considered cheap while the players are viewed by others as greedy. This will be one of the hotspots to watch because GM Kevin Cheveldayoff has decisions to make.

All eyes are on Columbus forward Ryan Johansen and we’ve been told there is a ton of interest. The Minnesota Wild and Jets are believed to be among the teams that have been kicking tires. He has been in the doghouse since coach John Tortorella arrived and the 23-year-old’s his ice time has taken a hit. The Jackets aren’t shopping Johansen, who has a deal that runs through next season with a $4 million cap hit, but GM Jarmo Kekalainen isn’t hanging up on anybody who inquires either. He was a healthy scratch Thursday against the Avalanche but returned to play on the top line Saturday night. You can’t trade a guy if you don’t play him because you devalue the player ...

 

[Hunter368]

Interesting

 

[puck stoppa]

Garrioch's sunday column has a few Jet references. He says the Jets and Wild have interest in Johansen

http://www.ottawasun.com/2015/12/19...rtunes?token=22c731ab29beb73b22d0da52c3ba5fec

It could get messy in Winnipeg. The Jets aren’t close to getting unrestricted free agents Andrew Ladd and Dustin Byfuglien along with restricted free agent Jacob Trouba signed and nobody is happy the negotiations went public last week with their demands attached. The organization could be considered cheap while the players are viewed by others as greedy. This will be one of the hotspots to watch because GM Kevin Cheveldayoff has decisions to make.

All eyes are on Columbus forward Ryan Johansen and we’ve been told there is a ton of interest. The Minnesota Wild and Jets are believed to be among the teams that have been kicking tires. He has been in the doghouse since coach John Tortorella arrived and the 23-year-old’s his ice time has taken a hit. The Jackets aren’t shopping Johansen, who has a deal that runs through next season with a $4 million cap hit, but GM Jarmo Kekalainen isn’t hanging up on anybody who inquires either. He was a healthy scratch Thursday against the Avalanche but returned to play on the top line Saturday night. You can’t trade a guy if you don’t play him because you devalue the player ...

How about a trade that involves RyJo, Ladd or Buff, and both players that go each way sign extensions What's the chances of that? Otherwise, Im not interested in a player that will be a UFA very soon.

WPG: RyJo, Werenski
CLB: Buff, Little, Comrie

 

[papasan]

Can GM's still talk, come to an agreement, during this Christmas Trade freeze?

 

[Whileee]

Can GM's still talk, come to an agreement, during this Christmas Trade freeze?

They can talk, but no trades until after Christmas now.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Garrioch's sunday column has a few Jet references. He says the Jets and Wild have interest in Johansen

http://www.ottawasun.com/2015/12/19...rtunes?token=22c731ab29beb73b22d0da52c3ba5fec

It could get messy in Winnipeg. The Jets aren’t close to getting unrestricted free agents Andrew Ladd and Dustin Byfuglien along with restricted free agent Jacob Trouba signed and nobody is happy the negotiations went public last week with their demands attached. The organization could be considered cheap while the players are viewed by others as greedy. This will be one of the hotspots to watch because GM Kevin Cheveldayoff has decisions to make.

All eyes are on Columbus forward Ryan Johansen and we’ve been told there is a ton of interest. The Minnesota Wild and Jets are believed to be among the teams that have been kicking tires. He has been in the doghouse since coach John Tortorella arrived and the 23-year-old’s his ice time has taken a hit. The Jackets aren’t shopping Johansen, who has a deal that runs through next season with a $4 million cap hit, but GM Jarmo Kekalainen isn’t hanging up on anybody who inquires either. He was a healthy scratch Thursday against the Avalanche but returned to play on the top line Saturday night. You can’t trade a guy if you don’t play him because you devalue the player ...

How serious are RyJo's health issues? Sounds like a massive red flag to me. Far bigger than any character or contract issues. Unless the Drs can say it is a minor thing, easily fixed that would kill any remaining interest I would have in him. I'd offer Stuart for him and that's it.

 

[VictoriaJetsFan]

Buff and Roslovic for Ryan Murray? too much? jackets add Calvert?

 

[MardyBum]

Im only interested in RyJo if it comes with an extension in place, and that can't even be discussed until the offseason? July 1?

Would rather wait till then to have a go at it. If he goes before then oh well.

 

[Jet]

How long do you wait? He's in his 7th season. When does the switch flip?

I doubt we'd get value back without adding significant prospects as Buffalo did. His value isn't increasing, and is really vested in his contract.

You have to wait. It is well known that defensemen take longer to develop. He's only 25.

With Byfuglien he is pretty much at the peak of what he is going to be. Dynamic offensively and a game changer when he wants to be. Not very interested in his own zone (though he has improved there somewhat since Maurice came on board).

Is Buff better than Myers now? Hell yeah! In 2-3-5 years, I wouldn't bet on it. People can say that Buff is better than him defensively already but I don't see it at all. Most of what I don't like about Buffs game in his own zone has to do with will, and that is what pisses me off. A guy with that size, passion, and skill offensively who doesn't seem to give a **** most nights about preventing goals is not what I want to see from a defenseman.

Myers has a lot of raw skill but is not developed mentally. You can see he wants to be better in his zone and I see the effort. He can learn and mature into a better defenseman. He has great reach, will continue to add weight, and whilst not overly physical he does use his body which is what most people here want anyway.

If we traded Myers and signed Buff to an 8 year 50+ year contract this team might be better off tomorrow, and probably next year but then the bets get way more interesting after that. People are living in the moment too much. This team is showing we are a longshot to even make the playoffs this year. Why are we worried about the next 2 seasons having a now player? This team won't be a serious contender for at least 3 more years. Then you have a 33 year old Buff instead of a 28 year old Myers who will be entering his prime.

Buff does all the sexy stuff on the ice, and that is why people love him and want to keep him. It just doesn't make sense.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

You have to wait. It is well known that defensemen take longer to develop. He's only 25.

With Byfuglien he is pretty much at the peak of what he is going to be. Dynamic offensively and a game changer when he wants to be. Not very interested in his own zone (though he has improved there somewhat since Maurice came on board).

Is Buff better than Myers now? Hell yeah! In 2-3-5 years, I wouldn't bet on it. People can say that Buff is better than him defensively already but I don't see it at all. Most of what I don't like about Buffs game in his own zone has to do with will, and that is what pisses me off. A guy with that size, passion, and skill offensively who doesn't seem to give a **** most nights about preventing goals is not what I want to see from a defenseman.

Myers has a lot of raw skill but is not developed mentally. You can see he wants to be better in his zone and I see the effort. He can learn and mature into a better defenseman. He has great reach, will continue to add weight, and whilst not overly physical he does use his body which is what most people here want anyway.

If we traded Myers and signed Buff to an 8 year 50+ year contract this team might be better off tomorrow, and probably next year but then the bets get way more interesting after that. People are living in the moment too much. This team is showing we are a longshot to even make the playoffs this year. Why are we worried about the next 2 seasons having a now player? This team won't be a serious contender for at least 3 more years. Then you have a 33 year old Buff instead of a 28 year old Myers who will be entering his prime.

Buff does all the sexy stuff on the ice, and that is why people love him and want to keep him. It just doesn't make sense.

Your opinion of Buff is well known. He is not as good defensively as he could/should be. His effort is not as consistent as it could/should be. In spite of the above he is still very good both offensively and defensively in sum.

Myers is probably not at his peak but he is probably very close to it. The chances of him ever matching Buff on either offense or defense are slim IMO. 3 years from now when they are 33 and 28 Buff is still probably better than Myers.

None of that has anything to do with the trade suggestions you are talking about. This starts with Hamonic. I think it is clear that the consensus here is that we should trade Buff for Hamonic. We are told that Snow won't even consider that, presumably because of Buff's contract status. Therefore we switch to offering Myers. It is not about our opinions of the relative merits of the 2 players. It is about the perceived relative tradeability of the 2 players. Myers has an attractive contract and therefore can be traded. Buff has an unattractive contract and therefore can't be traded.

Personally I think Snow would be nuts to turn down Buff for Hamonic. He has the team to go all the way with the addition of an impact player like Buff. He should take him with the intention to sign him. If we dig in our heels a bit he should add to Hamonic to get him. Buff should be worth more to NYI than he is to us because they have got a team that is within a hair's breadth of being a real contender. But that is just my opinion. It obviously differs from both yours and Snow's.

 

[Jet]

Your opinion of Buff is well known. He is not as good defensively as he could/should be. His effort is not as consistent as it could/should be. In spite of the above he is still very good both offensively and defensively in sum.

Myers is probably not at his peak but he is probably very close to it. The chances of him ever matching Buff on either offense or defense are slim IMO. 3 years from now when they are 33 and 28 Buff is still probably better than Myers.

None of that has anything to do with the trade suggestions you are talking about. This starts with Hamonic. I think it is clear that the consensus here is that we should trade Buff for Hamonic. We are told that Snow won't even consider that, presumably because of Buff's contract status. Therefore we switch to offering Myers. It is not about our opinions of the relative merits of the 2 players. It is about the perceived relative tradeability of the 2 players. Myers has an attractive contract and therefore can be traded. Buff has an unattractive contract and therefore can't be traded.

Personally I think Snow would be nuts to turn down Buff for Hamonic. He has the team to go all the way with the addition of an impact player like Buff. He should take him with the intention to sign him. If we dig in our heels a bit he should add to Hamonic to get him. Buff should be worth more to NYI than he is to us because they have got a team that is within a hair's breadth of being a real contender. But that is just my opinion. It obviously differs from both yours and Snow's.

It has a lot to do with it in the sense that I was speaking to the oft offered Myers in trade proposals. That is what started that particular line of discussion.

As for people knowing what I think about Byfuglien -- great. We all know a lot about all of us regulars opinions on lots of things. Should we just stop talking about them?

PS if you really knew what I thought of Buff you'd notice my overall opinion of him is certainly not static. I have moved off my initial feelings of him quite a bit, and that has a lot to do with the work he has done to improve some of his shortcomings and a lot of the opinons of posters here which I respect greatly. I consider being here a learning opportunity, so even if I don't necessarily agree with someones point, I'll listen.

I'm not interested in this 'in sum' statement. His offensive prowess can add up to a net gain to the team on a night to night basis. I understand that and appreciate that. However, situationally, Buff needs to stop being selfish and know that at certain times of the game, you need to worry about your own damned end and put that effort into preventing goals. How many times to we blow games that we have a lead in? We should be able to put the guy many claim to be our best defenseman out there and feel confident that he is going to play the way he needs to to close out the game. This is the part of Byfuglien's game that is most sadly lacking IMO.

Yes, we should trade Buff for Hamonic, though I understand that NYI would have no interest in that. Specifically, Myers for Hamonic might be a good trade for both teams. However, back to my original post that started all of this, I see Myers as someone many are almost nonchalant in offering up in a deal -- all I was saying is I think that there is still the promise of something greater there and we might be giving up a pretty great defenseman if we trade him now.

Finally, I also agree that Buff is a perfect player for a team like New York. They are close to challenging and a guy like Buff could put them over the top. Trading cost controlled players for UFAs is never palatable - which is why I wish we could work out a sign and trade (but why would Buff do that?)

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

It has a lot to do with it in the sense that I was speaking to the oft offered Myers in trade proposals. That is what started that particular line of discussion.

As for people knowing what I think about Byfuglien -- great. We all know a lot about all of us regulars opinions on lots of things. Should we just stop talking about them?

PS if you really knew what I thought of Buff you'd notice my overall opinion of him is certainly not static. I have moved off my initial feelings of him quite a bit, and that has a lot to do with the work he has done to improve some of his shortcomings and a lot of the opinons of posters here which I respect greatly. I consider being here a learning opportunity, so even if I don't necessarily agree with someones point, I'll listen.

Hah! I have noticed that. You might notice that I have moved also.

Re:Your first para. The oft discussed Myers proposals are almost always 'Myers, because the partner doesn't want pending UFA Buff'. Trade proposals are going to offer 1 of our surplus RHD more often than not. Almost always it is Buff first but he is presumed unacceptable because of pending UFA status. Only then does Myers draw into the picture because we would part with him before Trouba. There is no 'get rid of Myers' movement. It is not us saying we would rather keep Buff than keep Myers (even though many would say that). It is the trade partner saying flat out 'NO' to Buff.

How would you suggest we do it given the following parameters? The trade must include one of our top 3 RHD (because that is what we can afford to part with, like it or not). That RHD cannot be Buff because the partner says so. That RHD cannot be Trouba because we say so. There doesn't appear to be any option but Myers, therefore Myers is featured in trade proposals. I know that sounds sarcastic. I don't mean it disrespectfully. There just isn't a more concise way to say it.

 

[Jet]

Hah! I have noticed that. You might notice that I have moved also.

Re:Your first para. The oft discussed Myers proposals are almost always 'Myers, because the partner doesn't want pending UFA Buff'. Trade proposals are going to offer 1 of our surplus RHD more often than not. Almost always it is Buff first but he is presumed unacceptable because of pending UFA status. Only then does Myers draw into the picture because we would part with him before Trouba. There is no 'get rid of Myers' movement. It is not us saying we would rather keep Buff than keep Myers (even though many would say that). It is the trade partner saying flat out 'NO' to Buff.

How would you suggest we do it given the following parameters? The trade must include one of our top 3 RHD (because that is what we can afford to part with, like it or not). That RHD cannot be Buff because the partner says so. That RHD cannot be Trouba because we say so. There doesn't appear to be any option but Myers, therefore Myers is featured in trade proposals. I know that sounds sarcastic. I don't mean it disrespectfully. There just isn't a more concise way to say it.

Well, when it comes to Hamonic specifically, I think we've pretty much accepted that it's either not going to happen, or will have to be a 3 way deal, which is near impossible in the NHL today.

Back to Myers, I've just noticed that he's been offered up in several different deals. It makes sense in the respect that he has good value and you have to give to get. I just worry that he is going to become more than he is and we will kick ourselves.

Then again, I thought Bogosian was going to win the Norris so what the hell do I know