Speculation: Jets General Rumour, Trade, Free Agent and Waiver Speculation 15-16 (Part IV)

[Whileee]

Blaming the best players makes no sense.

They were and are among the best. Surround them with talent and the Jets are in...

That said, trade them now if they won't be signed.

Buff is still one of the Jets' best players. Ladd isn't. The Jets core talent hasn't been good enough so you need to upgrade that.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Would be Buff. They would want to speak with him, and resign him, prior to the deal I'm sure.

After 19 yr old Ekblad, they don't have much on the right side, Imo. So Buff could take pressure off him and would help them reach the cap floor, after Campbell leaves at the end of this year. He also helps them make the playoffs in a much easier East.

Talon may be the guy that offers up a strong package for Buff having had him before in Chicago.

To get players that young that are GOOD you are going to have to give up more than an expensive 30+ pending UFA. Crouse is still an unproven prospect which lowers his value. They might be willing to give him up. I'm not sure he is what we would want. He won't be ready for a few years. What we need is LHD not LWs. If we traded Ladd for a LHD then trading Buff for a LW could work. I'd rather look for one who is ready now.

 

[Whileee]

I have been saying this for years!! Everyone is always so quick to blame Ladd, Little, Wheeler, Buff, Enstrom... The GM is the only one to blame. He has failed miserably at giving them a supporting cast. Last year in the stretch he finally did, and ya we got swept. But if we had that exact same team this year, then you can start blaming coaches, players, etc.

The fact of the matter is our depth is horrible once again, like it was in year 1 and 2. Mind you Ladd and Buff have had a fair share of bad games this season, for that they can be blamed. But Little and Wheeler have been single handily carrying this team. I think Dudley needs to add more pieces to his team, woops I mean Chevy.

Our depth has been horrible because the Thrashers had nothing in their prospect pool. Who would have liked the Jets to have traded picks and prospects to acquire talent to surround the "core"? Not me. Who would have liked the Jets to go out and overspend on free agents to support the core for a few years? Not me. Stempniak has achieved God-like status around here, despite getting nothing more than a PTO from any other team. The Jets are not a Stemp and Tlusty away from being a contender. They are struggling because their D and goaltending is not nearly as good as it was last season. Stemp and Tlusty weren't as important for the Jets run to the playoffs last year as Pavs goaltending and the great D.

 

[HellebuyckOurSaviour]

Ok that's it I'm tired and gonna throw out some crazy trades lol

Buff to Philly
Schenn Brother's to Wpg

Ladd and Pavelec to Carolina
Eric Staal and Ward to Winnipeg

Make Wheeler captain and Staal, Little and Trouba assistants

I know I'm gonna get hated on but I'm tired and can't stand to watch them lose anymore to central opponents

 

[10Ducky10]

Myers and a 2nd for Vlasic.

 

[jetsforever]

let's just gloss over the fact that Zadorov<Myers and Grigs< Ladd then? Alrighty.

They will get better presumably. Anyways, Myers and Ladd haven't been great this year.

Buff to Philly
Schenn Brother's to Wpg

No

Ladd and Pavelec to Carolina
Eric Staal and Ward to Winnipeg

Yes

Myers and a 2nd for Vlasic.

Yes by so much but SJ doesn't do that.

 

[KingBogo]

Our depth has been horrible because the Thrashers had nothing in their prospect pool. Who would have liked the Jets to have traded picks and prospects to acquire talent to surround the "core"? Not me. Who would have liked the Jets to go out and overspend on free agents to support the core for a few years? Not me. Stempniak has achieved God-like status around here, despite getting nothing more than a PTO from any other team. The Jets are not a Stemp and Tlusty away from being a contender. They are struggling because their D and goaltending is not nearly as good as it was last season. Stemp and Tlusty weren't as important for the Jets run to the playoffs last year as Pavs goaltending and the great D.

The Jets plan has remained consistent since day 1. Focus on drafting and developing and support the older core of players (all on great to decent contracts) from whatever depth players they could scrounge up. Last year we had modicum of success thanks to players playing a strong defensive system and great goaltending. But really are Stemp and Tlusty much different than the Antropovs, Wellwood's and the Olli's of the world? The list can go on and on. The Jets are now at the point that the young players are starting to take important roster spots and the older core has started to hit their expensive UFA years. So IMO it is decision time. But it is a decision between: do we double down on the youth movement by moving Ladd and Buff with pieces that fit with that, or are we willing to start moving some prospects and picks to support the older core and try to make something happen now. The answer isn't lets just go status quo with a couple extra depth players that some are longing for.

Of course this is all being compromised by poor defensive play and terrible goaltending. You would need the 84 Oilers offensive production to keep us in games lately. But at of the day I'd lean towards moving Buff and Ladd while you can still get a good return, even if you need to retain salary to make it work. That is the price you pay for not being decisive last summer.

 

[Whileee]

The Jets plan has remained consistent since day 1. Focus on drafting and developing and support the older core of players (all on great to decent contracts) from whatever depth players they could scrounge up. Last year we had modicum of success thanks to players playing a strong defensive system and great goaltending. But really are Stemp and Tlusty much different than the Antropovs, Wellwood's and the Olli's of the world? The list can go on and on. The Jets are now at the point that the young players are starting to take important roster spots and the older core has started to hit their expensive UFA years. So IMO it is decision time. But it is a decision between: do we double down on the youth movement by moving Ladd and Buff with pieces that fit with that, or are we willing to start moving some prospects and picks to support the older core and try to make something happen now. The answer isn't lets just go status quo with a couple extra depth players that some are longing for.

Of course this is all being compromised by poor defensive play and terrible goaltending. You would need the 84 Oilers offensive production to keep us in games lately. But at of the day I'd lean towards moving Buff and Ladd while you can still get a good return, even if you need to retain salary to make it work. That is the price you pay for not being decisive last summer.

I agree with you. Stemp and Tlusty would not make the difference on this team playing on the 3rd / 4th lines with the sort of defensive play and goaltending we've seen in the past 4-5 games. Prior to that, nobody seemed all that concerned because the Jets' results were pretty good.

The Jets will need to quickly figure out whether this latest slide is a blip, or the sign of more fundamental problems if they want to compete this year.

Regardless, I think that the Jets' larger decision making revolves around what to do with Ladd and Buff. I have a hunch that the Jets have known for some time that they can't keep both unless both were willing to give a "hometown discount". They might have had some question marks about Ladd due to his off-season surgery, and even more now that he's been sluggish at the beginning of the season. Buff is a wild-card on a long-term deal, regardless. The trade market for both is probably focused on teams that think that they can be contenders this year or in the near term. Several of those teams have cap constraints that will open up a bit as the season progresses, so I think the window for trading either or both is still open. Signing both will probably have more impact on the future fate of players like Myers, Little and Wheeler who will need to be re-signed within the term of the contracts of Ladd and Buff, and alongside new contracts for Scheifele, Trouba, Lowry, Ehlers, Morrissey, Hellebuyck etc. If Ladd, Buff, Myers, Wheeler and Little are all in the $6.0-7.0M+ range, there won't be room for everyone.

 

[truck]

I agree with you. Stemp and Tlusty would not make the difference on this team playing on the 3rd / 4th lines with the sort of defensive play and goaltending we've seen in the past 4-5 games. Prior to that, nobody seemed all that concerned because the Jets' results were pretty good.

The lack of proven depth was an obvious issue on paper. It was on obvious issue in the pre-season, when they were winning and it remains an obvious issue now that they have moved Thorburn to the third line of a healthy team.

Trading for depth would make sense at this point.

Chris Thorburn is on the 3rd line of a healthy team.

 

[truck]

Buff is still one of the Jets' best players. Ladd isn't. The Jets core talent hasn't been good enough so you need to upgrade that.

Ladd is. He is still easily a top 6 forward on this team and top 3 or 4 for his all minutes play.

 

[jamiebez]

Chris Thorburn is on the 3rd line of a healthy team.

This cannot be said enough.

Easy solution was right there in the off-season: Stempniak and about a half-dozen other guys who got bargain-basement deals. Now, we're giving up an asset if we want to bolster the depth.

And God forbid there's an injury or two! Could get worse before it gets better.

 

[Say What]

Getting rid of Ladd and Buff we may be a playoff team in year 8 of Jets 2.0. This plan is working great!!

Well Jets 2.0 made it last year, so...Year 4.

However, Edmonton, Arizona, Carolina, Buffalo, Florida and New Jersey say "Hi" & "Welcome to the party".

Cheveldayoff doesn't have the 'stones' to rid us of Ladd or Byfuglien. I say re-sign them both and let's move on. Not that I endorse keeping Ladd.....Yuck!!

 

[Whileee]

The lack of proven depth was an obvious issue on paper. It was on obvious issue in the pre-season, when they were winning and it remains an obvious issue now that they have moved Thorburn to the third line of a healthy team.

Trading for depth would make sense at this point.

Chris Thorburn is on the 3rd line of a healthy team.

That's a stylistic choice of the coach. Burmistrov is a good 3rd line NHL player, in my opinion. Certainly better than Thorbs.

 

[Say What]

This cannot be said enough.

Easy solution was right there in the off-season: Stempniak and about a half-dozen other guys who got bargain-basement deals. Now, we're giving up an asset if we want to bolster the depth.

And God forbid there's an injury or two! Could get worse before it gets better.

That's the scary part. The Jets Organization sees guys like Thorburn, and Stuart as vital pieces of the 'family'. Guys that "want to be here". Guys that have ties to the community and all that 'huggy, feely' crap. To heck with hockey talent.....do you like the city?

 

[Whileee]

This cannot be said enough.

Easy solution was right there in the off-season: Stempniak and about a half-dozen other guys who got bargain-basement deals. Now, we're giving up an asset if we want to bolster the depth.

And God forbid there's an injury or two! Could get worse before it gets better.

We have Lowry, Stafford, Burmi and Petan all available for 3rd line duty, along with Copp, Raffl, Lipon and Armia in the system. In the pre-season the big discussion was about how the Jets would manage their depth. Let's not forget that Stemp is getting huge minutes on the Devils top line and PP. His start to the year needs to be considered in that light before thinking that he would be a huge upgrade in a bottom 6 role.

 

[Bob E]

The further the Jets fall from playoff contention the more likely we see Ladd and Buff moved, imo.

The Central is too tough to go on an extended losing streak. Might get away with it in the Pacific, but highly unlikely in the Central. The top five teams are starting to distance themselves, and we are soon would hoping for them to have key injuries just to give us a shot. Not quite there yet, but a loss to the Blues and it's getting close.

At some point this season, I'd like to see Hellebuyck up for some games. Not to wish an injury to our current goalies, but it would be nice to see 'the future tender' in an NHL setting. This team is going nowhere without better goaltending.

 

[VictoriaJetsFan]

The further the Jets fall from playoff contention the more likely we see Ladd and Buff moved, imo.

The Central is too tough to go on an extended losing streak. Might get away with it in the Pacific, but highly unlikely in the Central. The top five teams are starting to distance themselves, and we are soon would hoping for them to have key injuries just to give us a shot. Not quite there yet, but a loss to the Blues and it's getting close.

At some point this season, I'd like to see Hellebuyck up for some games. Not to wish an injury to our current goalies, but it would be nice to see 'the future tender' in an NHL setting. This team is going nowhere without better goaltending.

I wonder at what point we are realistically done should the losing continues? 5 games under 500? 10?

 

[bustamente]

If this play continues we will be out of contention by the middle of December the central will not wait for us and with Dallas on top and Colorado starting to play better the Jets are in tough for a wild card even if they do get things in order. How long until grumblings start coming out of the dressing room

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

We have Lowry, Stafford, Burmi and Petan all available for 3rd line duty, along with Copp, Raffl, Lipon and Armia in the system. In the pre-season the big discussion was about how the Jets would manage their depth. Let's not forget that Stemp is getting huge minutes on the Devils top line and PP. His start to the year needs to be considered in that light before thinking that he would be a huge upgrade in a bottom 6 role.

Lets try not to forget that this discussion did not start after Stemp had a hot start to his season. It has been going on since the end of last season.

 

[Whileee]

Lets try not to forget that this discussion did not start after Stemp had a hot start to his season. It has been going on since the end of last season.

Not much discussion about missing Stemp and Tlusty during training camp or when the Jets jumped out to a nice record early in the year. Most of the discussion has been re-invigorated by the poor recent play. Personally, I don't think it's because we don't have Stemp instead of Burmi or Thorbs or Petan. I think the Jets recent problems are more related to a dysfunctional D.

 

[Hunter368]

Imo no panics moves should be done, I don't care if we miss the playoffs b/c of it. Make smart, logical, long term deals/decisions.

This just highlights for me even greater the major weaknesses this team has. As I've stated MANY times before this team is not a contender, it's a bubble team. Reality check.

Now Chevy make those long term logical moves to make us a real contender. Nice to see us as a contender before 10 years is up. Doesn't look like it will happen in year 5, too many changes needed. Made some progress in first 5 years, keep going. Use your brain, not your heart.

Ladd/Buff? Made a freaking decision.Imo trade Ladd, trade or sign Buff depending on contract demands. Move onto our rfa pool.

 

[Hunter368]

Not much discussion about missing Stemp and Tlusty during training camp or when the Jets jumped out to a nice record early in the year. Most of the discussion has been re-invigorated by the poor recent play. Personally, I don't think it's because we don't have Stemp instead of Burmi or Thorbs or Petan. I think the Jets recent problems are more related to a dysfunctional D.

Imo you right, but losing those guys and playing Thor, Peluso, Burmi just makes it worse.

 

[JetsHomer]

Myers, Ladd and Little for Duchene, Zadorov and Grigorenko.

Lol whut?


Little is better than Duchene
Buff is far far better than Zadorov
Ladd is far superior to Grigorenko


This might be the worst proposal I've ever seen tbh

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Not much discussion about missing Stemp and Tlusty during training camp or when the Jets jumped out to a nice record early in the year. Most of the discussion has been re-invigorated by the poor recent play. Personally, I don't think it's because we don't have Stemp instead of Burmi or Thorbs or Petan. I think the Jets recent problems are more related to a dysfunctional D.

The discussion never stopped. It has picked up again recently but not just with the last 5 games. It picked up before that when the bottom 6 performance fell off (more like 10-12 games back). Agree that the recent play is not due to the lack of Stemp. I don't think most posters are saying that it is. The Stemp talk is coming up as part of the larger topic of the direction Chevy chose this off-season. That doesn't directly link to the collapse of our team D either.

It is more than the stench coming from our blueline lately. It is team D. It is also offense. We have scored only 8 goals in the 5 losses. So lets see. It is team D, team scoring, the bottom 6, the blueline, the top 6 and goaltending.

It is a mistake to think that our problem started 5 games ago. Prior to that was a win - over the Leafs so it barely counts - and the humiliating loss to Montreal, so we have to go back over at least the last 7 games. Before that we played 11 games and in spite of the winning record we only played really well in perhaps 2 of them. We beat some teams who played even worse than we did and our goaltending bailed us out in a few others.

This team bears little resemblance to last year's team. Last year's team played better with five defensemen in sick bay than this year's team has ever played. That is a big change. And that is comparing to our team before we acquired Myers, Stafford, Tlusty or Stempniak. We were also missing some forwards during part of that time and yet we still played far better than we have been playing this year.

I think the above underscores that our current problem is not about the roster that Chevy gave Maurice to work with. So what is it then? The most obvious suspect is the system changes Maurice introduced. I sincerely hope that is the answer and that Maurice very quickly goes back to what worked. If that is not the answer then I don't know what is but I'm afraid it would have to be something much harder to fix.

 

[Whileee]

The discussion never stopped. It has picked up again recently but not just with the last 5 games. It picked up before that when the bottom 6 performance fell off (more like 10-12 games back). Agree that the recent play is not due to the lack of Stemp. I don't think most posters are saying that it is. The Stemp talk is coming up as part of the larger topic of the direction Chevy chose this off-season. That doesn't directly link to the collapse of our team D either.

It is more than the stench coming from our blueline lately. It is team D. It is also offense. We have scored only 8 goals in the 5 losses. So lets see. It is team D, team scoring, the bottom 6, the blueline, the top 6 and goaltending.

It is a mistake to think that our problem started 5 games ago. Prior to that was a win - over the Leafs so it barely counts - and the humiliating loss to Montreal, so we have to go back over at least the last 7 games. Before that we played 11 games and in spite of the winning record we only played really well in perhaps 2 of them. We beat some teams who played even worse than we did and our goaltending bailed us out in a few others.

This team bears little resemblance to last year's team. Last year's team played better with five defensemen in sick bay than this year's team has ever played. That is a big change. And that is comparing to our team before we acquired Myers, Stafford, Tlusty or Stempniak. We were also missing some forwards during part of that time and yet we still played far better than we have been playing this year.

I think the above underscores that our current problem is not about the roster that Chevy gave Maurice to work with. So what is it then? The most obvious suspect is the system changes Maurice introduced. I sincerely hope that is the answer and that Maurice very quickly goes back to what worked. If that is not the answer then I don't know what is but I'm afraid it would have to be something much harder to fix.

Jets are still top-10 in possession stats. Their PDO is 9th last. They again have a big imbalance on special teams.

The recent spate of games is a bit of an anomaly. There is no way that they are as bad as the recent scores indicate, but they do need to clean up their D and get a few key saves (especially early in games).

If the Jets' D and goaltending was playing anything like last year, we wouldn't be moaning about not re-signing a depth forward or two instead of playing rookies.

(Not directed at you particularly), but I'll repeat again that playing Peluso and Thorbs as they are is a stylistic choice by Maurice. He has had other roster options. Playing Peluso tonight over Petan is a good example. Chevy gave him Petan and he wants to play Peluso and Thorbs over him. It'll be interesting to see if Maurice ignores Raffl when he's available.