Post-Game Talk: Jets 4 - Dead Wings 1

[LowLefty]

Or, maybe the Jets are taking their time with him setting him up for success at each turn.

I have no problem with that especially when we're winning.

I think most fans feel this way -

 

[surixon]

Or, maybe the Jets are taking their time with him setting him up for success at each turn.

I have no problem with that especially when we're winning.

How's playing him two fewer minutes a game after playing him 15 a game last year setting him up for success exactly? What does it tell a player who's playing really well when they reduce his role? I'm struggling to see the logic here. Greatly reducing his usage lower then a level he already showed he could excel at, how's that going to help him grow exactly. Usually you increase a players role as they show they can handle things. The Jets are going the opposite direction here.

If someone could point to a tangible thing in his game or a realistic reason for his usage I'd love to hear it.

 

[Jet]

How's playing him two fewer minutes a game after playing him 15 a game last year setting him up for success exactly? What does it tell a player who's playing really well when they reduce his role? I'm struggling to see the logic here. Greatly reducing his usage lower then a level he already showed he could excel at, how's that going to help him grow exactly. Usually you increase a players role as they show they can handle things. The Jets are going the opposite direction here.

If someone could point to a tangible thing in his game or a realistic reason for his usage I'd love to hear it.

We weren't as deep last year. Players minutes do not happen in a vacuum

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

If you are going to dispute my facts please research beforehand as this information is readily available. Namestnikov was 0 and 5 on the dot last night where Perfetti was 2 and 1.

Namestnikov has a team worst 35% winning record on faceoffs and unlike Perfetti doesn't have the excuse of being a young player just learning the craft. If we are going to suffer through that low a faceoff% I'd rather it be by a kid who has the ability to grow that aspect of his game.

I'm not sure what either Mark or Adam have to do with this conversation as both have been better on the dot than Namestnikov this year and neither plays on the same line as Cole. I know you like the guy but he's not the long term answer at 2C and the org is going to have to eventually put Cole back in that spot.

Agree that Names is not the long term, or even mid term answer at 2C. That doesn't mean the org is going to have to eventually put Cole back there. I know you like him there and I know why. I don't disagree. But there are, or may be, other options.

Maybe when Volare gets back they try him there, even though it appears that he is needed with Scheif and Connor. Maybe they acquire a 2C somewhere. Pinto? Frost? Someone else?

I just want to see better 5v5 utilization first.

 

[surixon]

Agree that Names is not the long term, or even mid term answer at 2C. That doesn't mean the org is going to have to eventually put Cole back there. I know you like him there and I know why. I don't disagree. But there are, or may be, other options.

Maybe when Volare gets back they try him there, even though it appears that he is needed with Scheif and Connor. Maybe they acquire a 2C somewhere. Pinto? Frost? Someone else?

I just want to see better 5v5 utilization first.

True they may find someone else for that role but I don't see a likely near term candidate. You might as well see what you have with Cole over a longer stretch then 3 games.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think the biggest thing I didn't like about last night's game is I saw some of that lack of execution in our zone creep back in.

We weren't really giving the wings a ton off the rush, which is really good considering their team speed and skill. Our gaps were excellent, and the forwards were supporting the D's pinches at both blue lines really well.

The poor execution was decision making when we regained possession in our zone, especially when pk'ing and after being hemmed in. We blindly three the puck up the boards, ringed the puck with no support, and made bad clearing attempts.

That's been our Achilles heel in the past but I haven't seen a tonne of it before last night. The Wings really fed of of it, we handed them a lot of their chances including their only goal.

The last half of that game was all Wings and Helle. Not that I don't want the 2 points or that I didn't like Jets first half. But either Wings are a lot better than I expected them to be or we regressed badly to some old habits. Or both.

Right now i like how we are using Perfetti , he's basically still a rookie, let him start in the shallow end instead of just jumping right in the deep end. He will eventually be the 2nd center, i don't see why we should be rushing him in.

OK, but at least give the 2nd line more 5v5 TOI than the 4th line.

 

[Jet]

The last half of that game was all Wings and Helle. Not that I don't want the 2 points or that I didn't like Jets first half. But either Wings are a lot better than I expected them to be or we regressed badly to some old habits. Or both.



OK, but at least give the 2nd line more 5v5 TOI than the 4th line.

Well they were 5-1, so...

I'd give the 2nd line some of the first lines minutes

 

[LowLefty]

How's playing him two fewer minutes a game after playing him 15 a game last year setting him up for success exactly? What does it tell a player who's playing really well when they reduce his role? I'm struggling to see the logic here. Greatly reducing his usage lower then a level he already showed he could excel at, how's that going to help him grow exactly. Usually you increase a players role as they show they can handle things. The Jets are going the opposite direction here.

If someone could point to a tangible thing in his game or a realistic reason for his usage I'd love to hear it.

Personally, I think the line (not just Cole) is being under used and the main issue is size / physicality
I also know that you and others don't care about the size of the player - but the game still has a physical aspect that comes into play.
This line might have good / great numbers - I won't argue them. But they also get run over sometimes - especially when the game is ramping up
(which usually happens in the back half of the last period in close games). Winning board battles is so important in the game - especially when hemmed in late in the game.

I think they need to look at how that line is constructed if they want them to play in all situations - as per @Mortimer Snerd, Vilardi down the middle might be an option when he returns. For right now, IDK. But it appears as though the Jets are content with leaving the line as is for now while they wait for Ehlers to come out of his funk (some improvement last game but still a problem). I also think they want to take their time with Cole and let him continue to build on his physical game - that will take time.

I will agree with you on an earlier point that this team is risk adverse in late game situations. Probably because they have shown a tendency to fold in the late minutes and give up leads. Looks like they are trying to get away from that with this current game plan.

I also agree with an earlier comment on KC - he is not the right guy to have our there late in games - but unfortunately, the line he's on will be out there in all situations even though Kyle is not good in all situations. I hope they address this issue. He might be the outlier to my point above on the risk adverse game plan - he kind of flies in the face of what they might be trying to fix. So far, they have got away with it.

Don't expect you to agree with much of this - but IMO, it's another tangible way to look at it.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Good point about score effects. I'd like to see them modify how they play with the lead in the third. As you said we are at our best when we press, we aren't as good when we go into more of a defensive shell.

Best way to protect a lead is to play in the other team's end. OFC the other team may have something to say about that.

But the way they were hemmed in several times last night was no way to play D, or protect a lead, or anything else other than give your goalie a good workout.

I don't think it was about protecting the lead. It was about Wings playing very fast and very well in our end while we were doing pretty much the exact opposite.

Jets were good in the 1st period and managed another 5v5 goal in the third to preserve the win, + the EN. But lets be honest here, otherwise, Helle stole that 2 pts.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

True they may find someone else for that role but I don't see a likely near term candidate. You might as well see what you have with Cole over a longer stretch then 3 games.

I'd put him back there now, honestly. He was fine to start but needed to get his offensive game going. He has done that now so put him back to C. I would leave Names on that line, at least for a while longer and continue to shelter them a bit too.

 

[KingBogo]

The last half of that game was all Wings and Helle. Not that I don't want the 2 points or that I didn't like Jets first half. But either Wings are a lot better than I expected them to be or we regressed badly to some old habits. Or both.



OK, but at least give the 2nd line more 5v5 TOI than the 4th line.

It was only really the 1st 5 minutes or so of the 3rd that the Jets were badly outplayed. It appeared to me they went prevent too quick and almost payed the price if it wasn't for Helly. After that things balanced out and the grinded out a good road 3rd period to hold onto a win. I'd say it was more inexperience managing leads then old bad habits.

 

[JetsUK]

Well they were 5-1, so...

I'd give the 2nd line some of the first lines minutes

Yep, and based on Arniel's comments, I'd expect that's what they're likely to do especially earlier on in games. A stronger second line that's combining scoring and solid possession makes life a whole lot easier for the first and the third lines, certainly until Villardi's back.

Props to DatsyApples also on his newfound combo of hands and shot. Honestly though he was Ehlers on that faceoff snipe, and then yesterday's tic-tac-Apples was pretty sweet.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Personally, I think the line (not just Cole) is being under used and the main issue is size / physicality
I also know that you and others don't care about the size of the player - but the game still has a physical aspect that comes into play.
This line might have good / great numbers - I won't argue them. But they also get run over sometimes - especially when the game is ramping up
(which usually happens in the back half of the last period in close games). Winning board battles is so important in the game - especially when hemmed in late in the game.

I think they need to look at how that line is constructed if they want them to play in all situations - as per @Mortimer Snerd, Vilardi down the middle might be an option when he returns. For right now, IDK. But it appears as though the Jets are content with leaving the line as is for now while they wait for Ehlers to come out of his funk (some improvement last game but still a problem). I also think they want to take their time with Cole and let him continue to build on his physical game - that will take time.

I will agree with you on an earlier point that this team is risk adverse in late game situations. Probably because they have shown a tendency to fold in the late minutes and give up leads. Looks like they are trying to get away from that with this current game plan.

I also agree with an earlier comment on KC - he is not the right guy to have our there late in games - but unfortunately, the line he's on will be out there in all situations even though Kyle is not good in all situations. I hope they address this issue. He might be the outlier to my point above on the risk adverse game plan - he kind of flies in the face of what they might be trying to fix. So far, they have got away with it.

Don't expect you to agree with much of this - but IMO, it's another tangible way to look at it.

"Probably because they have shown a tendency to fold in the late minutes and give up leads. Looks like they are trying to get away from that with this current game plan."

I think you are right that they are risk averse (that's right, no d ). The trouble is that they don't seem to know how to minimize risk. They are using a method that actually maximizes risk instead of avoiding it. The first player whose time should be cut is Connor. Not sure about Scheifele. He might actually be decent late in games with the right wingers.

 

[LowLefty]

"Probably because they have shown a tendency to fold in the late minutes and give up leads. Looks like they are trying to get away from that with this current game plan."

I think you are right that they are risk averse (that's right, no d ). The trouble is that they don't seem to know how to minimize risk. They are using a method that actually maximizes risk instead of avoiding it. The first player whose time should be cut is Connor. Not sure about Scheifele. He might actually be decent late in games with the right wingers.

You might be right - but until it doesn't work, they likely continue with what they are doing.
I personally don't have an issue with how they manage those last few minutes - I can find other things (that are not working) to complain about.

 

[LowLefty]

It was only really the 1st 5 minutes or so of the 3rd that the Jets were badly outplayed. It appeared to me they went prevent too quick and almost payed the price if it wasn't for Helly. After that things balanced out and the grinded out a good road 3rd period to hold onto a win. I'd say it was more inexperience managing leads then old bad habits.

IDK - looked to me like most of that last period was not good - maybe worse in the first 5.
I find that it's work in our own end that is the major issue - we really struggle with an apposing team that puts the peddle to the floor - which really is nothing unusual - when a team is playing desperate hockey, it gets chaotic and sometimes hard to defend.
I also find that our D is exposed in those instances - as much or more than our forwards

 

[Jets 31]

Best way to protect a lead is to play in the other team's end. OFC the other team may have something to say about that.

But the way they were hemmed in several times last night was no way to play D, or protect a lead, or anything else other than give your goalie a good workout.

I don't think it was about protecting the lead. It was about Wings playing very fast and very well in our end while we were doing pretty much the exact opposite.

Jets were good in the 1st period and managed another 5v5 goal in the third to preserve the win, + the EN. But lets be honest here, otherwise, Helle stole that 2 pts.

I have no problem with Helly stealing games, he's getting paid alot of money to do that. I love hearing other fans say the only reason the Jets beat us was because of their goaltending .

 

[KingBogo]

IDK - looked to me like most of that last period was not good - maybe worse in the first 5.
I find that it's work in our own end that is the major issue - we really struggle with an apposing team that puts the peddle to the floor - which really is nothing unusual - when a team is playing desperate hockey, it gets chaotic and sometimes hard to defend.
I also find that our D is exposed in those instances - as much or more than our forwards

Here is the game flow chat from Natural Stats Trick showing actual Corsi and score and Venue adjusted Corsi.

https://www.naturalstattrick.com/game.php?season=20232024&game=20102

 

[LowLefty]

Here is the game flow chat from Natural Stats Trick showing actual Corsi and score and Venue adjusted Corsi.

https://www.naturalstattrick.com/game.php?season=20232024&game=20102

I was just looking at the shot clock for the period

 

[NA Hockey]

Agree that Names is not the long term, or even mid term answer at 2C. That doesn't mean the org is going to have to eventually put Cole back there. I know you like him there and I know why. I don't disagree. But there are, or may be, other options.

Maybe when Volare gets back they try him there, even though it appears that he is needed with Scheif and Connor. Maybe they acquire a 2C somewhere. Pinto? Frost? Someone else?

I just want to see better 5v5 utilization first.

Pinto or Frost are not better players now, or in the long run than Cole.

 

[Snot Rocket]

Almost nodded off in the third, but stayed awake until the end. Nice to see some scoring from all the lines! Those goals by Ehlers and Neiderreiter should get the monkeys off of their backs and start their offence going... I give this game four El Nino's out of five...

The Prediction Contest is up and running for the game against Montreal on Saturday, so check it out and get your guesses in. A big thank you to @Aggie204 who will be making the GDT for the Canadiens game, we all are looking forward to seeing it. See you guys then...

Whenever they say his name my neuro divergent brain goes...

 

[Jet]

How the f*** do yall live here

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Pinto or Frost are not better players now, or in the long run than Cole.

Never suggested they were. But they might be better candidates for 2C. Or they might just be 'good enough' to allow using Cole at a wing. Or maybe they get someone else. Or maybe they stay with Perfetti. But he is not the ONLY possibility.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I have no problem with Helly stealing games, he's getting paid alot of money to do that. I love hearing other fans say the only reason the Jets beat us was because of their goaltending .

I'm very happy for him to steal games. And I've liked the Jets all around play in most games. But this game would have probably been an L if Helle had been just avg. It was the 2nd worst of their 7 games.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

You might be right - but until it doesn't work, they likely continue with what they are doing.
I personally don't have an issue with how they manage those last few minutes - I can find other things (that are not working) to complain about.

Agree there are other things. But KFC out to defend a lead isn't exactly working. Enough other things work to shield that.

The idea that nothing must be changed when you are winning is irrational. Would you refuse to stop your boat from leaking because it failed to sink?

 

[10Ducky10]

Vilardi could also be used at center.
He has played there as recently as last playoffs.