Post-Game Talk: Jets 2 - Fake Jets 1

[surixon]

I'm not going to argue with you too vociferously on this but bear with me: the Jets are in no danger of missing the playoffs. The Stanley Cup is the ultimate goal. To that end, the rest of the regular season should be fine tuning the Jets game to achieve that goal.

I think the one thing the team loves about Bones is the structure, a clear identity, and using players in roles that play to their strengths.

Having 8 out there in prevent situations plays to his strengths. He, like everyone else has room to improve. So, you put him in this situations and then coach and correct. You can be sure he'll look through the game tape with an assistant coach and identify things to work on.

Playoff success isn't just about talent. It's about roster balance, energy conservation, and adoption of system.

Sure, but you also want to have Cole out in key situations as well to develop those aspects of his game, especially as a rookie. With 5 minutes left I don't believe teams should be bunkering but instead should still be trying to force the issue. With 2 minutes left sure, bunker as the other team likely pulls the goalie.

 

[Jet]

Sure, but you also want to have Cole out in key situations as well to develop those aspects of his game, especially as a rookie. With 5 minutes left I don't believe teams should be bunkering but instead should still be trying to force the issue. With 2 minutes left sure, bunker as the other team likely pulls the goalie.

Why though? Right now he's still a rookie and should be focused on his skillset and how it relates to his role.

Crawl, walk, run.

 

[Jetland162702]

Talk about a tale of 2 halves. I thought the Jets came out flying and played exactly how they needed to play to win games. Then sometime in the 2nd period it all fell apart.
A win is a win, on to the Habs.

 

[Jet]

Talk about a tale of 2 halves. I thought the Jets came out flying and played exactly how they needed to play to win games. Then sometime in the 2nd period it all fell apart.
A win is a win, on to the Habs.

I want PLD to absolutely cream Caulfied - give Habs fans supreme confusion on how to feel about him.

 

[JetsUK]

Yeah that's valid. The good news is I see him slowly trending in the right direction

Well that would be great news, and the best possible outcome at the best time.

There's been a few suggestions that he's carrying an injury. Hopefully the ASB will give him some extra healing time. Also might be worth plugging in Capo/ Heinola for a stretch to let key D rest up for the playoffs.

 

[Jet]

Well that would be great news, and the best possible outcome at the best time.

There's been a few suggestions that he's carrying an injury. Hopefully the ASB will give him some extra healing time. Also might be worth plugging in Capo/ Heinola for a stretch to let key D rest up for the playoffs.

yeah I think that would definitely be wise. If Pionk is healthy though I think you have to leave him in to continue to improve. Its tough, as you wouldn't want to rest Morrissey either as he's having a Norris caliber season and wouldn't want to deprive him of having the chance to win that award.

I'm sure there will be enough banged up D down the stretch that Heinola and Capo will get some reps. You definitely want to ensure your depth D is ready to go

 

[surixon]

Why though? Right now he's still a rookie and should be focused on his skillset and how it relates to his role.

Crawl, walk, run.

I mean you want well rounded players don't you? You get into the playoffs and are in OT and it's next goal wins you are going to need to be able to trust your skill to go out and get the win while not giving much up.

I just think most capable if given the opportunity.

 

[Jet]

I mean you want well rounded players don't you? You get into the playoffs and are in OT and it's next goal wins you are going to need to be able to trust your skill to go out and get the win while not giving much up.

I just think most capable if given the opportunity.

Again - I think that the coach has to consider what is best for both the player and the team. Developing the players who fit the situation and making them their very best has to be the prime goal. Why would you spend time teaching Perfetti to do it when the players who fit into that role need to work on it as well? You also have to think about energy management, which is my number one argument about having offensive players in defensive assignments.

Finally, the best way for people to learn and truly develop is to let them focus on one or two things at a time. Build a foundation, and then add to it. Perfetti is still a rookie and will have plenty of opportunity to layer new skills into his repatoire.

One of the biggest challenges for the company I work for is we throw a ton of information and training on our new hires all at once. It's one of the main reasons our new hires struggle with performance and we struggle with retention. I have been advocating for a more staged, measured approach to onboarding and we've seen much better results.

 

[surixon]

Again - I think that the coach has to consider what is best for both the player and the team. Developing the players who fit the situation and making them their very best has to be the prime goal. Why would you spend time teaching Perfetti to do it when the players who fit into that role need to work on it as well? You also have to think about energy management, which is my number one argument about having offensive players in defensive assignments.

Finally, the best way for people to learn and truly develop is to let them focus on one or two things at a time. Build a foundation, and then add to it. Perfetti is still a rookie and will have plenty of opportunity to layer new skills into his repatoire.

One of the biggest challenges for the company I work for is we throw a ton of information and training on our new hires all at once. It's one of the main reasons our new hires struggle with performance and we struggle with retention. I have been advocating for a more staged, measured approach to onboarding and we've seen much better results.

That is a fair response. I think we just disagree on when a coach should be switching his game plan up. I don't disagree with using your PK players in 6 in 5 situations. I juat don't agree with shutting things down with a 1/4 of a period left. I think you should continue to play for goals at that point.

 

[Jet]

That is a fair response. I think we just disagree on when a coach should be switching his game plan up. I don't disagree with using your PK players in 6 in 5 situations. I juat don't agree with shutting things down with a 1/4 of a period left. I think you should continue to play for goals at that point.

Yeah I think that is definitely a philosophical opinion and it's not like you are wrong and I am right. I am a firm believer in always using the best player suited to each situation as much as possible.

The great side benefit is, minutes will be more naturally distributed and outside of outlier games your team should be a lot fresher. I still believe one of Schiefeles biggest problems over the past few seasons is he was allowed to run his shifts super long (I still see him doing that to a lesser extent), but Maurice was also playing the bag off of him. I just don't think he had the gas in the tank to play the 200 foot game that he's starting to play more of this year.

You do make a good point about everyone at least being able to do everything at a solid baseline. You can't always control when players will be out, so they should be at least competent at everything.

Where we mainly differ is I think we need to focus on getting players proficient at their primary roles before we worry about getting players proficient at roles they may only play sporadically.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I'll say it up front: f**k Vegas. We're the captain of the Western Conference now.
That win puts us cleanly in the #2 spot league-wide for wins, too. This team WINS.

Just as an added bonus, we are now ahead (by tie breaker) of TML.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Hard to disagree with the coach who is currently sitting a top the western conference

Who came out with this schedule home for 1 then back out on the road again and another back to back this weekend

 

[kanadalainen]

Rangers knock Bruins off top spot in Power Rankings; Jets surge

Both New York teams have made early moves to address their needs as the hunt for the playoffs continues and we creep closer to the trade deadline.

www.tsn.ca

 

[scelaton]

IDK -- maybe he has become this season's whipping boy at this point, but I think it's less a whipping boy and more a WTF Pionk!!?? response at an important player who is having another puzzling season, in which he's pacing for strong point totals while regularly being an adventure on D.

I'm a Pionk fan -- love his combo of skill, motor and truly verminous pestiness when he's on his game, especially on a team that's poised to make some noise in the playoffs. As we know, this is a guy who can absolutely torment some very good players in a shadow D role.

But his up-down season hasn't gone unnoticed. Here's Murat picking -- who else? -- as the Jets' biggest disappointment this season:

Biggest disappointment: Neal Pionk

It’s a little harsh to praise the team up and down but pick on Pionk, whose 19 points in 41 games have him on pace for one of his very best offensive seasons. The problem is that Pionk’s defending has given a lot of that back in terms of shots, scoring chances and goals against. During Pionk’s early Jets career, he was among the team’s best zone-entry defenders, but, to me, he hasn’t moved or tracked nearly as well in his own zone this season as he did during those early days. — Murat Ates

Anyhoo. For me, it's less a matter of "We need a whipping boy -- I see you, Neal!" and more a matter of getting back to that ideal game of sound D, solid O, endless motor and a straight-up mean streak.

Agree with your and Murat's assessments. He has lots of skill but his mistakes are going to haunt the team if he doesn't get his shit together.

In a way, he is the antithesis of Byfuglien, who was also prone to making memorable gaffes but whose analytics were very positive, on balance. A dive into Pionk's analytics paints a very different picture. I am still hoping/expecting he tightens things up, because he is still in his prime, fits well into Bones' 5-man offensive scheme and has shown outstanding skill against some very good players in the playoffs (without mentioning names).

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Pionk won't tighten things up because he isn't that type of player. He isn't cerebral he is reactionary. It is just a matter of whether his reactions work or not.

All the D are going to make gaffes night after night it is just the nature of the position and the speed of the NHL. But its the plays that kill the offense or give teams an odd man rush that really hurt you specifically hurts your "fancy stats".

 

[DRW204]

IDK -- maybe he has become this season's whipping boy at this point, but I think it's less a whipping boy and more a WTF Pionk!!?? response at an important player who is having another puzzling season, in which he's pacing for strong point totals while regularly being an adventure on D.

I'm a Pionk fan -- love his combo of skill, motor and truly verminous pestiness when he's on his game, especially on a team that's poised to make some noise in the playoffs. As we know, this is a guy who can absolutely torment some very good players in a shadow D role.

But his up-down season hasn't gone unnoticed. Here's Murat picking -- who else? -- as the Jets' biggest disappointment this season:

Biggest disappointment: Neal Pionk

It’s a little harsh to praise the team up and down but pick on Pionk, whose 19 points in 41 games have him on pace for one of his very best offensive seasons. The problem is that Pionk’s defending has given a lot of that back in terms of shots, scoring chances and goals against. During Pionk’s early Jets career, he was among the team’s best zone-entry defenders, but, to me, he hasn’t moved or tracked nearly as well in his own zone this season as he did during those early days. — Murat Ates

Anyhoo. For me, it's less a matter of "We need a whipping boy -- I see you, Neal!" and more a matter of getting back to that ideal game of sound D, solid O, endless motor and a straight-up mean streak.

im not sure how exactly it's whipping boy when he's rated similarly in 3 of 4 years here. & the one outlier year was a complete anomaly set of circumstances (opponents, schedule). different team and system, but didnt rate favorably in NYR either, but that was 5+ years now so not sure it's super representative.

maybe it's whipping boy, idk. i interpret this as he is playing closer to who he is, & fans are noticing. at the end of the day, this team will have a ~6m contract on the third pair. id rather have a top-4 pair performing at a high level hence why i think I (and i think many others now) are hoping to see dillon-schmidt at some point.

 

[SensibleGuy]

Moar winz!! Moar victory!!! Moar success!!! Moar moar moar!!!

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I don't really understand why Kuhlman is still in the lineup. He doesn't bring much of anything.

Their goal was on him. All it needed was just a little effort. Just a wee bit.

 

[LowLefty]

I think it's actually for the benefit of Perfetti as much as the team. You really want to add on responsibility for young players slowly so you don't overwhelm them or mess with their confidence.

I also don't think Cole has the man strength yet for the physical intensity of en against play.

The Yokes were pouring it on in the third - especially late in the third. It makes perfect sense to put players out there that can defend and be effective if you get tied up in your own end. If you have players that can do that, and also happen to be the guys that played less minutes through the game, I'd play them in that situation.

Didn't get a chance to comment last night but thought the game was probably closer than I would have liked but thought the Jets outplayed them.
Yotes were giving it all they had - Jets gave enough to win which is OK by me considering the road trip ahead of them.

I look forward to the TML game - I want to see how we handle a top team on the road - especially one that has their offense. I want to see the guys shut down that offense and create a bunch of their own - this should be a good game to to measure the Jets offense and defense against a top team that can test your complete lineup. Bones should have them ready for that one -

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

That's a simple one for me. Fundamentals. Maenalanen probably has some of the best metrics on board battles, and you get into a late minute scenario where the puck gets in your end, and you want to push the puck off the boards over the line in a scrum, you want men who can win that battle.

Kuhlman???

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I'm not one of the people advocating for that but have seen those posts.
To me the TDL acquisition of a top/middle 6 winger as insurance on say our 3rd line seems like a solid move and we let the guys that carried the team and gelled all year do their thing.

But in the event that Chevy lands a bigger fish, a player who has to be in the top 6 based on their skill and the cost to acquire them then I think we know that really only 2 of the 6 players would be considered to be moved down.

The less experienced Perfetti is likely top of the list but also seems least suited to play with Lowry's shut down line since the coaches generally don't play him the last few minutes of game that we have a tight lead.
Moving him to the 4th with our current crop of players would be a waste.

Thus, the "move Wheeler to the 3rd line" posts make more sense.
Many have pointed out why that isn't a great fit anymore either but it seems like the only option I would see them looking at. Could you imagine 2015 Wheeler being that kind of luxury for us that we could play him on the 3rd line. 2023 Wheeler doesn't seem to have the game to fit that role anymore but who knows.

I've been waiting to see how Wheeler responds to coming back from his injury. I think he is looking better each game so far. If that continues, I don't see any need to move him down.

 

[ecolad]

That is a fair response. I think we just disagree on when a coach should be switching his game plan up. I don't disagree with using your PK players in 6 in 5 situations. I juat don't agree with shutting things down with a 1/4 of a period left. I think you should continue to play for goals at that point.

What has been lost in much of the discussion so far is exactly what you raise here - it seems that the coach is showing his preference for changing the game plan when entering the 3rd period up by a single goal. The entire team is being asked to play much more cautiously, with a steady diet of dump-ins and non aggressive pursuit. The strategy clearly shows up if you look at the way expected Gf simply flatlines in the entire 3rd period. I`m still not convinced this roster performs best by so easily giving up possession and allowing the other team to constantly come at you, but we will have to see.

Part of the thinking is to really tighten up in the last few minutes by altering lineups and inserting what coach believes to be players who are uniquely suited to the expected game situation. This part seems fair, but again I don`t understand how someone like Connor can be more trusted in such circumstance than someone like Perfetti. Connor is completely out of his element in these game situations.

 

[gojetsgo]

aren't we now 20-1 when leading after 2?

 

[DRW204]

aren't we now 20-1 when leading after 2?

yes

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

Why though? Right now he's still a rookie and should be focused on his skillset and how it relates to his role.

Crawl, walk, run.

Any athlete who has achieved as much as Cole has will have a competitive fire within them.
He wants to prove he can play in those situations because he played in those situations his whole life at every level. It's natural for him to be disappointed if he's getting benched for "more defensive players". When it's the last shift of the game and they stick out an extra C for the draw he likely doesn't care. When there's 5 minutes left and a Kuhlman or someone else is getting his minutes that would be a different story. Yes Cole is smaller and physically weaker than essentially all of our players but he seems to play very well positionally, has an excellent stick, and seems as good as most at his zone exits. He's also great at zone entries and controlled dump ins.

I think a mixture of working him in slow and letting him prove himself is probably the best course. But I'll defer to Bones until the teams starts showing major cracks and extended bad results.

I sort of agree to that there's no reason that can't use their PK'ers in those close out 5 on 6 situations.
Then that way Cole isn't being singled out as the only guy on his line not playing.