Post-Game Talk: Jets 2, Canucks 1: It's a Winnipeg brownout! Mark Flood would be so proud.

[ChilliBilly]

I don't think getting rid of them entirely helps, Horvat Sutter Gaunce Shore is pukeworthy, worst centre group in the jul by far, and I'd rather Benning not have $14m to sign two more Erikssons to replace them. Just cut their minutes and treat them like 2/3rd liners. At 16 mins per game you are going to get better play from the Sedins and more time for youngsters.

Yep. reduce their role, and i hope they renew for a couple of more years at a decent hometown discount like $2.75 M ....

 

[me2]

Yep. reduce their role, and i hope they renew for a couple of more years at a decent hometown discount like $2.75 M ....

I'd be fine with not renewing them, just that we have nothing to replace them next year. Not even a guarantee of this year's draft pick being up to it. Hopefully by 2018, either this year's pick or next year top 5 pick is good to go.

 

[Kryten]

Yep. reduce their role, and i hope they renew for a couple of more years at a decent hometown discount like $2.75 M ....

Hopefully one year deals, I would give them 3.5m each to start

 

[arttk]

Would be good if we had a playmaking offensive winger.

Pitts tried Malkin and that didn't work...

 

[Cupless44]

Yep. reduce their role, and i hope they renew for a couple of more years at a decent hometown discount like $2.75 M ....

Gawd no..please just move on.

You think they will be playing better at 38?

 

[thepoeticgoblin]

Gawd no..please just move on.

You think they will be playing better at 38?

Who do we have that are better than them? Horvat. That's all.

We shouldn't move on until there are actual replacements- but yes, it's time for them to be 2nd liners in 2017-18. They are 36 and should not have to be our first line. It baffles me that management insist on talking about playoff contention when their team is spearheaded by three 36 year olds and Edler (?).

 

[Cupless44]

Who do we have that are better than them? Horvat. That's all.

We shouldn't move on until there are actual replacements- but yes, it's time for them to be 2nd liners in 2017-18. They are 36 and should not have to be our first line. It baffles me that management insist on talking about playoff contention when their team is spearheaded by three 36 year olds and Edler (?).

They are defensive liabilities that get hemmed in their own zone for shifts at a time. They have ground the powerplay to a halt. I would love to see them off the powerplay completely now. The young offensive players can not be any worse than their dismal success rate on the powerplay.

They should no longer be taking up space in the top 6.

You think their speed will be any better at 37 next year? Or the 2 years after at 38 and 39 that some are proposing?

It is a sad state that dismal drafting for a decade has meant no good young replacements but this is a 28th place team rebuilding with youth now. Move on already after next season. Please.

 

[krutovsdonut]

i agree they need to retire from the 1st unit pp, and the way willie uses them in a shutdown role in third periods with a lead is bizarre if you consider they were not particularly trustworthy shutdown guys in their prime. it only makes sense if you consider his alternatives.

but i am not giving up. burrows was supposedly done last year.

if it all goes pear shaped next season, as seems likely, i see them waiving their nmc at the tdl as their last act to help the team. they just watched burrows and hansen do that.

and once they go, i think they go.

 

[biturbo19]

Would be good if we had a playmaking offensive winger.

I really don't even think that would be particularly helpful when it comes to Sutter. He just is what he is, and he can be effective while playing with relative scrubs because of it. The other side of that, is that i don't think he even really benefits all that much from playing with high-skill players or really good "playmakers". That doesn't really jive with his game. Just as he doesn't have the vision to be any kind of setup man himself - he doesn't really have great goal-scorers anticipation to jump in and capitalize on good playmaking either.

He's a defensive Center who generally creates his own offense, on his own, all by his lonesome. I've said it before, and as long as WillieD is coach...i'm sure i'll say it again, and again, and again...Put Sutter with Granlund who he's shown some form of chemistry with, or just some defensively sound scrubby linemates and let him do his thing.

Saddling him with a player like Goldobin for instance, does nothing for either of them. Sutter has to worry about babysitting Goldobin's puck management inadequacies which are worsened when his linemates aren't at all on the same page. Goldobin has to worry about pucks getting sucked into an offensive black hole. It doesn't make sense.



That said...Sutter has to be injured somehow, or at least thoroughly worn out and completely out of gas. He's looked terrible lately.

 

[Pip]

I think the best use of Sutter would be to pair him up with a couple of muckers and grinders. Problem is of course we are seriously lacking in quality centres.

 

[mathonwy]

What the Sedins actually need are reduced ice-time and a versatile winger who knows how to get open. They also shouldn't be playing back-to-backs.

Due to the inability of their other winger, all season long, opponents are able to zero in on them.

Players like Sutter, Chaput, and Megna don't have the ability to draw defenders off of them. They stand still in the offensive zone, allowing the opposing team to outnumber the Sedins in the corners.

For whatever it's worth, Eriksson's Corsi with the Sedins is 53%, and Granlund's is 52%. Which is okay. Treading water, so to speak. Not world beating, but it shows they are still effective.

Another problem is Willy D's in-game management. The Sedins are at their best when they cycle through linemates throughout the game, to give them different looks to counter any changes opposing coaches might make toward containing them. Willy D sticks someone onto a line, and they stay stuck on that line.

One more problem is the Canucks' blueliners don't seem to be allowed much of a role in the Canucks' offense. They have such a reduced role in the Canucks' offense, the opposing team is able to sag off the blueline to collapse on the Sedins' cycle game, grinding it to a halt.

The last problem is the no-risk offense the team has to play. This seems to tie into the Sedins' line third forward generally not moving in the offensive zone, and also the defenders reduced role. But that's not the Sedins' game. They need their other winger (and the blueliners) to take risks, move into areas that aren't on the defensive side of the puck. While the trap offense has improved the team's overall defense, it's murdered any dynamism that exists on the team. Willy D's turned the Canucks' forwards into clones of Granlund.

What is galling is the inability of Willy D to mix things up. Benning has improved the Canucks pool of wingmen, but still Willy D went with Chaput on their line. He could've used any one of Eriksson, Boeser, Goldobin, or Boucher on their line to mix things up, and try to spark some life into the Sedins. He went with Chaput.

I like it when the extrapolator posts.

He doesn't post often but when he does, it's usually pretty insightful.

Losing Hansen was pretty much the death knell of the Sedins for this season (and maybe their careers )

I know for a fact that the majority of Canuck fans don't truly understand the fact that it was Hansen that was driving play for the Sedins and not the other way around last season as well as the kind of impact that trading Hansen would actually have on the two most skilled players on our team. Hansen was the best forward on our team in terms of being able to create space and by being so good at this, it gave the Sedins more time and space to do THEIR thing.

I know 100% that Jimbo doesn't have a ****ing clue how the Sedins work else he wouldn't have signed Loui. Jimbo's understanding of offensive hockey is so **** poor shallow that it's embarrassing.

And Extrapolator's latest post has masterfully demonstrated how clueless WD is as well.

We got a tier 4 advanced tech (the Sedins) being managed by a couple clueless noob players.



Stupidity seems to permeate this entire organization. ****.

 

[mathonwy]

I really don't even think that would be particularly helpful when it comes to Sutter. He just is what he is, and he can be effective while playing with relative scrubs because of it. The other side of that, is that i don't think he even really benefits all that much from playing with high-skill players or really good "playmakers". That doesn't really jive with his game. Just as he doesn't have the vision to be any kind of setup man himself - he doesn't really have great goal-scorers anticipation to jump in and capitalize on good playmaking either.

He's a defensive Center who generally creates his own offense, on his own, all by his lonesome. I've said it before, and as long as WillieD is coach...i'm sure i'll say it again, and again, and again...Put Sutter with Granlund who he's shown some form of chemistry with, or just some defensively sound scrubby linemates and let him do his thing.

Saddling him with a player like Goldobin for instance, does nothing for either of them. Sutter has to worry about babysitting Goldobin's puck management inadequacies which are worsened when his linemates aren't at all on the same page. Goldobin has to worry about pucks getting sucked into an offensive black hole. It doesn't make sense.



That said...Sutter has to be injured somehow, or at least thoroughly worn out and completely out of gas. He's looked terrible lately.

Only reason Sutter had chemistry with Granlund was because Hansen was also on that line.

Fact: When Hansen went down with injury, that "chemistry" evaporated.

 

[mathonwy]

I think the best use of Sutter would be to pair him up with a couple of muckers and grinders. Problem is of course we are seriously lacking in quality centres.

Sutter is best suited to be a 4C.

No offense, no defense, but fast, good at faceoffs and causes the odd TO.

 

[arttk]

Gawd no..please just move on.

You think they will be playing better at 38?

It's not like we are overflowing with centers and the UFA market is crap.

 

[arttk]

I think the best use of Sutter would be to pair him up with a couple of muckers and grinders. Problem is of course we are seriously lacking in quality centres.

Don't see a point in trying to improve the roster next year. If there is a season to tank, next season would be it.

Horvat, Henrik, Sutter and ???? will be great for the tank.

 

[Catamarca Livin]

Only reason Sutter had chemistry with Granlund was because Hansen was also on that line.

Fact: When Hansen went down with injury, that "chemistry" evaporated.

Think Ericksson was on that line when it did the best Hansen was with the twins. Hansen was my favorite player in 2011 team, however he has actually become overrated by nearly the same proportion that Sutter is underrated on this board. In Sj one assit so far in 10 games I do not know his advanced stats there. We need more solid nhl players. Sutter is one of them.

 

[TruGr1t]

Only reason Sutter had chemistry with Granlund was because Hansen was also on that line.

Fact: When Hansen went down with injury, that "chemistry" evaporated.

Sutter is literally way worse Kesler. Head down, skate fast, shoot instead of pass. We had a heck of a time finding wingers for old #17 back in the day. Sutter is similar, just not even near that level defensively, or otherwise.

 

[biturbo19]

Think Ericksson was on that line when it did the best Hansen was with the twins. Hansen was my favorite player in 2011 team, however he has actually become overrated by nearly the same proportion that Sutter is underrated on this board. In Sj one assit so far in 10 games I do not know his advanced stats there. We need more solid nhl players. Sutter is one of them.

Yeah. Sutter+Granny worked alright without Hansen for a stretch as well.

Sutter is literally way worse Kesler. Head down, skate fast, shoot instead of pass. We had a heck of a time finding wingers for old #17 back in the day. Sutter is similar, just not even near that level defensively, or otherwise.

Pretty much how i think you have to look at it. Even Kesler who was indeed a much better version of that "type" of player, could be exceptionally frustrating to watch and find wingers to mesh with at times.

You just have to accept that Sutter is pretty much going to be a helicopter line, deploy him as such...and get on with the show. He's probably going to get his customary 15-20 goals and ~30pts either way.