Player Discussion Jesse Puljujarvi '18-19 Season Part 5, Jesse Bumped Up the Line-up

[Perfect_Drug]

Curious.
If we were a better run team, how would you have handled Jesse at the beginning of each of his seasons or pivotal moments ?

2 More years in the FEL with heavy emphasis on learning english
1 years in the AHL with heavy emphasis on learning english, and playing the NA game.
He has to dominate that level before jumping to the NHL.

Next year would be his rookie season. Likely halfway through the year.

He would only be 21.



I am still a firm believer he won't break out until he's nearly 25. Still hasn't grown into his man-body yet.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Someone needs to sit down with him and teach him how to get open. Or at least not take the same path his line mates are going.

If people wonder why he isn't on PP being a trigger man, well, his inability to get himself open for a shot is a problem

This frustrates me so much.

I've praised Jesse in recent efforts but didn't think much of his game last night against a poor opponent. His play, skating, puck control continues to be clumsy, his decisions unpredictable. Lucic play made more sense in this game and that's saying something. Maybe I wasn't keying on it but I saw Pulju blowing plays fairly regularly instead of making them. What did Pulju do well last night?

Last night Pulju is getting relatively easy topsix minutes, against one of the weakest lineups in the league, and he's playing with a first class Center and 6M buck winger. Even if Lucic is struggling he played better than Jesse last night who was third best on his line. Seeing all kinds of help. Really its a luxury for Jesse getting the quality of Nuge as a Center at this point. He's done nothing for it.

In a game after the coach drilled the depth players on this team Jesse pulled out another lukewarm clumsy effort and to me didn't look even close to getting on the board last night. That said the game was so listless I fell asleep for a few minutes of it. Maybe I missed an amazing play.

This is a player that is supposed to be an NHL star. He's dwarfed on this team by the accomplishments of even Khaira.

I am not sure where people are getting that he played good from. I just noticed him skating into his own team and avoiding body contact at all costs as per usual. Frustrating.

 

[tellermine]

The only one who ‘developed’ in the A is Khaira. Those other guys played there in the lockout but to give our development staff credit for those guys is silly. Khaira has what, 1 or 2 goals this year, year is half over. Draisaitl, played maybe half a year down there, you really want to give Howson credit for Draisaitl? How anyone can defend Howson is crazy talk

What ever. I would think he has someone doing the fieldwork.

Maby Oilers just draft bad at lower rounds?

Can one man ruin all prospects?

 

[tellermine]

Someone needs to sit down with him and teach him how to get open. Or at least not take the same path his line mates are going.

If people wonder why he isn't on PP being a trigger man, well, his inability to get himself open for a shot is a problem

Amen. Thats why I said Oilers should hire finn assist to Pulju.
Boy needs More support and personal training.

 

[frag2]

This frustrates me so much.

I am not sure where people are getting that he played good from. I just noticed him skating into his own team and avoiding body contact at all costs as per usual. Frustrating.

There was a play I believe late in the third, one of our forwards takes it from behind the net [not sure if it was Khaira or Reider but pretty sure was a lefty] and where does JP go? In the slot where 3 yotes covering him, hitting stick on ice calling for shot.

That's just facepalm.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Just to give you who I think he compares with (I've posted this several times).

Big dudes that typically develop late:

Olli Jokinen:
2x years post-draft in the FEL
1 year of the AHL (9 game NHL callup)

Made NHL out of camp at 22.
Kind of broke out at 25 years old with 36 goals, and 65 points.
Really broke out at 27 after the lockout with 89, and 91 point seasons.

Todd Bertuzzi
2x years of Junior post-draft.
Little bit of time in the Minors (IHL)
At 26 years old finally scored 25 goals.
Broke out at 27 years old with 85 point

Johan Franzen
Professional SEL player until 26
Joined Red Wings at 27 posting Puljujaarvi like numbers (16 points in 80 games).
Broke out at 29 with 27 goals and a beastly playoffs resulting in a cup win.

John Leclair
4 years of college post-draft
Posted pedestrian numbers in a very high scoring league.
Spent 8 games in the AHL his second professional season.
Broke out at 26.


HM:
Blake Wheeler
3 years of college post draft.
Showed a lot more than JP ever had his rookie season, scoring 21 goals but was 23
Flirted with 70 point pace at 25
Broke out as a PPG player at 30


JP likely won't be a solid player until roughly 25.

And just like the previous players (except Franzen) he will likely be traded for scraps. We will get to witness his breakout on another team.

 

[Barrsy]

Just to give you who I think he compares with (I've posted this several times).

Big dudes that typically develop late:

Olli Jokinen:
2x years post-draft in the FEL
1 year of the AHL (9 game NHL callup)

Made NHL out of camp at 22.
Kind of broke out at 25 years old with 36 goals, and 65 points.
Really broke out at 27 after the lockout with 89, and 91 point seasons.

Todd Bertuzzi
2x years of Junior post-draft.
Little bit of time in the Minors (IHL)
At 26 years old finally scored 25 goals.
Broke out at 27 years old with 85 point

Johan Franzen
Professional SEL player until 26
Joined Red Wings at 27 posting Puljujaarvi like numbers (16 points in 80 games).
Broke out at 29 with 27 goals and a beastly playoffs resulting in a cup win.

John Leclair
4 years of college post-draft
Posted pedestrian numbers in a very high scoring league.
Spent 8 games in the AHL his second professional season.
Broke out at 26.


HM:
Blake Wheeler
3 years of college post draft.
Showed a lot more than JP ever had his rookie season, scoring 21 goals but was 23
Flirted with 70 point pace at 25
Broke out as a PPG player at 30


JP likely won't be a solid player until roughly 25.

And just like the previous players (except Franzen) he will likely be traded for scraps. We will get to witness his breakout on another team.

I can give you a lit 10 times that long of big guys who never developed.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

I can give you a lit 10 times that long of big guys who never developed.

Sure. There is that.

But JP has tremendous pedigree, and I remember watching with my own eyes the exact same follies and issues those other players had.

I remember living in Vancouver at the time, watching the entire fan base rip Bertuzzi a new one, for being the return on Linden. He was basically called out the same way as he's called out on these boards. An idiot with no toolbox. He has all the skill none of the brains. yada yada yada. Zero effort, lazy skater.

I remember Everyone talking about how Jokkinen was a junk player who scored 21 points on Long Island. Called a dumb as bricks players, who was a full on bust drafted behind Thornton, and Marleau.
Exact same criticism about JP as Olli Jokinen. Lazy player, who doesn't try. No hockey sense.




Out of curiosity. Is there any high profile top 5 pick with the same tools as JP that stand out as a comparable?


I don't want you to bring up obscure middle round picks like Isbister. I mean Genuine consensus top 5 picks with size, speed, shot, and lauded for tremendous hockey sense that busted? Is your list really 50 players long? I can think of maybe Stefan but that's about it. Even Stefan was considered a meh pick in a horrible draft, and was compared to Thomas Steen.

 

[tellermine]

Sure. There is that.

But JP has tremendous pedigree, and I remember watching with my own eyes the exact same follies and issues those other players had.

I remember living in Vancouver at the time, watching the entire fan base rip Bertuzzi a new one, for being the return on Linden. He was basically called out the same way as he's called out on these boards. An idiot with no toolbox. He has all the skill none of the brains. yada yada yada. Zero effort, lazy skater.

I remember Everyone talking about how Jokkinen was a junk player who scored 21 points on Long Island. Called a dumb as bricks players, who was a full on bust drafted behind Thornton, and Marleau.
Exact same criticism about JP as Olli Jokinen. Lazy player, who doesn't try. No hockey sense.




Out of curiosity. Is there any high profile top 5 pick with the same tools as JP that stand out as a comparable?


I don't want you to bring up obscure middle round picks like Isbister. I mean Genuine consensus top 5 picks with size, speed, shot, and lauded for tremendous hockey sense that busted? Is your list really 50 players long? I can think of maybe Stefan but that's about it. Even Stefan was considered a meh pick in a horrible draft, and was compared to Thomas Steen.

Magnus Pääjärvi has lot of same as Puljujärvi. Tools but just cant process game in offencive zone.

But how many top 5 picks have trouble at constantly skating on their line mates?

Olli Jokinen had allways good iq, he was so full of himself at the day that he went to NHL basicly with no summer training. Party boy.

 

[Barrsy]

Sure. There is that.

But JP has tremendous pedigree, and I remember watching with my own eyes the exact same follies and issues those other players had.

I remember living in Vancouver at the time, watching the entire fan base rip Bertuzzi a new one, for being the return on Linden. He was basically called out the same way as he's called out on these boards. An idiot with no toolbox. He has all the skill none of the brains. yada yada yada. Zero effort, lazy skater.

I remember Everyone talking about how Jokkinen was a junk player who scored 21 points on Long Island. Called a dumb as bricks players, who was a full on bust drafted behind Thornton, and Marleau.
Exact same criticism about JP as Olli Jokinen. Lazy player, who doesn't try. No hockey sense.




Out of curiosity. Is there any high profile top 5 pick with the same tools as JP that stand out as a comparable?


I don't want you to bring up obscure middle round picks like Isbister. I mean Genuine consensus top 5 picks with size, speed, shot, and lauded for tremendous hockey sense that busted? Is your list really 50 players long? I can think of maybe Stefan but that's about it. Even Stefan was considered a meh pick in a horrible draft, and was compared to Thomas Steen.

Theres hundreds of them.
I barely looked but here you go.I could give you 50 more if I spent another 5 minutes. Strome, Zacha, Crouse, Dal Colle, Ritchie, Nickushkin, Rychel, Gigorenko, faksa, Mcneill,Omara.

And JP does not have elite hockey sense. That much is clear

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Sure. There is that.

But JP has tremendous pedigree, and I remember watching with my own eyes the exact same follies and issues those other players had.

I remember living in Vancouver at the time, watching the entire fan base rip Bertuzzi a new one, for being the return on Linden. He was basically called out the same way as he's called out on these boards. An idiot with no toolbox. He has all the skill none of the brains. yada yada yada. Zero effort, lazy skater.

I remember Everyone talking about how Jokkinen was a junk player who scored 21 points on Long Island. Called a dumb as bricks players, who was a full on bust drafted behind Thornton, and Marleau.
Exact same criticism about JP as Olli Jokinen. Lazy player, who doesn't try. No hockey sense.




Out of curiosity. Is there any high profile top 5 pick with the same tools as JP that stand out as a comparable?


I don't want you to bring up obscure middle round picks like Isbister. I mean Genuine consensus top 5 picks with size, speed, shot, and lauded for tremendous hockey sense that busted? Is your list really 50 players long? I can think of maybe Stefan but that's about it. Even Stefan was considered a meh pick in a horrible draft, and was compared to Thomas Steen.

Tremendous hockey sense? JP?

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Magnus Pääjärvi has lot of same as Puljujärvi. Tools but just cant process game in offencive zone.

But how many top 5 picks have trouble at constantly skating on their line mates?

Olli Jokinen had allways good iq, he was so full of himself at the day that he went to NHL basicly with no summer training. Party boy.

When Jokinen had 21 points in a full season. then followed that up with 16 points after his second trade in 2 seasons. They were NOT lauding his tremendous hockey sense.
He was being ripped on as a full fledged bust.

 

[Barrsy]

When Jokinen had 21 points in a full season. then followed that up with 16 points after his second trade in 2 seasons. They were NOT lauding his tremendous hockey sense.
He was being ripped on as a full fledged bust.

I call bs on this. He may have been called a full fledged bust. But it wasn't his hockey sense that was particularly been questioned

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Theres hundreds of them.
I barely looked but here you go.I could give you 50 more if I spent another 5 minutes. Strome, Zacha, Crouse, Dal Colle, Ritchie, Nickushkin, Rychel, Gigorenko, faksa, Mcneill,Omara.

And JP does not have elite hockey sense. That much is clear

All of those guys are kind of a reach in terms of comparable.
Strome is average size, and slow. He has none of the raw tools JP has.

Zacha never had great numbers in Junior, and stagnated while in junior.

Crouse never had that pedigree. He wasn't a point producer in Junior (Not even a PPG in his draft year). He was lauded for his ability to be a depth player who "might" contribute offense, but had a good 2-way game. This is why he fell to 11.

Dal Colle is slow and never put up phenomenal numbers in Junior.

Sorry man, but all these guys you listed are reaching. They're not remotely comparable.

 

[frag2]

Sure. There is that.

But JP has tremendous pedigree, and I remember watching with my own eyes the exact same follies and issues those other players had.

I remember living in Vancouver at the time, watching the entire fan base rip Bertuzzi a new one, for being the return on Linden. He was basically called out the same way as he's called out on these boards. An idiot with no toolbox. He has all the skill none of the brains. yada yada yada. Zero effort, lazy skater.

I remember Everyone talking about how Jokkinen was a junk player who scored 21 points on Long Island. Called a dumb as bricks players, who was a full on bust drafted behind Thornton, and Marleau.
Exact same criticism about JP as Olli Jokinen. Lazy player, who doesn't try. No hockey sense.




Out of curiosity. Is there any high profile top 5 pick with the same tools as JP that stand out as a comparable?


I don't want you to bring up obscure middle round picks like Isbister. I mean Genuine consensus top 5 picks with size, speed, shot, and lauded for tremendous hockey sense that busted? Is your list really 50 players long? I can think of maybe Stefan but that's about it. Even Stefan was considered a meh pick in a horrible draft, and was compared to Thomas Steen.

Pierre Luc Dubois

 

[Perfect_Drug]

I call bs on this. He may have been called a full fledged bust. But it wasn't his hockey sense that was particularly been questioned

I remember it pretty clearly (Maybe not as much in Florida).

When a young player with speed and size isn't putting up huge numbers, the first 2 things that are brought up are a lack of effort and hockey sense.

I definitely remember his hockey sense was definitely questioned when he was a 15-20 point player his first few years.




Maybe not the exact words "Hockey Sense" but he was frequently called a "dumb player" which I'd imagine to be the same thing.

 

[Barrsy]

All of those guys are kind of a reach in terms of comparable.
Strome is average size, and slow. He has none of the raw tools JP has.

Zacha never had great numbers in Junior, and stagnated while in junior.

Crouse never had that pedigree. He wasn't a point producer in Junior (Not even a PPG in his draft year). He was lauded for his ability to be a depth player who "might" contribute offense, but had a good 2-way game. This is why he fell to 11.

Dal Colle is slow and never put up phenomenal numbers in Junior.

Sorry man, but all these guys you listed are reaching. They're not remotely comparable.

Big guys for the most part. Good pedigree. Crouse at one time was going to go 1 or 2.Nickushkin. Dal colle.Ritchie.
List goes on and on. Its as ridiculous an argument pulling out the big guys who developed later as it is the little guys who made it.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Big guys for the most part. Good pedigree. Crouse at one time was going to go 1 or 2.Nickushkin. Dal colle.Ritchie.
List goes on and on. Its as ridiculous an argument pulling out the big guys who developed later as it is the little guys who made it.

Absolutely no f'n way was Crouse going to ever be #1. Find me ONE draft report that says that.

Crouse was nowhere in the conversation with McDavid or Eichel.

He wasn't even in the conversation of Marner or Strome.

He never even put up a PPG his draft year. His skating certainly wasn't praised. And the little offense he did generate was by overpowering guys by being bigger than them in Junior. He was never gonna be able to physically dominate NHLers, and everyone knew this. This is why he went 11th.

 

[frag2]

I remember it pretty clearly (Maybe not as much in Florida).

When a young player with speed and size isn't putting up huge numbers, the first 2 things that are brought up are a lack of effort and hockey sense.

I definitely remember his hockey sense was definitely questioned when he was a 15-20 point player his first few years.




Maybe not the exact words "Hockey Sense" but he was frequently called a "dumb player" which I'd imagine to be the same thing.

Unfortunately, all we've seen from JP are glimpse of what could be followed by periods of groan.
First the excuse was line mates.
Then coaching.

He's got better line mates and a new coach so really, what's holding him back?
Usually, you see progression but for JP, it's almost ALWAYS the same issues every game.

I guess for me, I'm just irked we might have wasted a 4th overall on a bottom sixer.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Unfortunately, all we've seen from JP are glimpse of what could be followed by periods of groan.
First the excuse was line mates.
Then coaching.

He's got better line mates and a new coach so really, what's holding him back?
Usually, you see progression but for JP, it's almost ALWAYS the same issues every game.

I guess for me, I'm just irked we might have wasted a 4th overall on a bottom sixer.

Thing is, the players I've seen who break out later, all kind of keep at a blase pace until they turn around 26 or so.

Jokkinen had a 21 point season, followed by another 21 point season, and then 16.

I think with JP it's an age thing. He's not physically or mentally mature enough for the NHL. He's not even old enough to drink in the US.

He's 20 years old. The guy is literally a kid in a man's body living in a foreign country where everyone speaks a language he doesn't understand.

He really should have stayed in Finland for a couple years, maybe dominated another World Juniors. Done some time in the Minors, before being given a cup of coffee in the NHL sometime next season.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Thing is, the players I've seen who break out later, all kind of keep at a blase pace until they turn around 26 or so.

Jokkinen had a 21 point season, followed by another 21 point season, and then 16.

I think with JP it's an age thing. He's not physically or mentally mature enough for the NHL. He's not even old enough to drink in the US.

He's 20 years old. The guy is literally a kid in a man's body living in a foreign country where everyone speaks a language he doesn't understand.




He really should have stayed in Finland for a couple years, maybe dominated another World Juniors. Done some time in the Minors, before being given a cup of coffee in the NHL sometime next season.

So we hold onto JP for another 6 years in case he turns good at 26?

 

[frag2]

Thing is, the players I've seen who break out later, all kind of keep at a blase pace until they turn around 26 or so.

Jokkinen had a 21 point season, followed by another 21 point season, and then 16.

I think with JP it's an age thing. He's not physically or mentally mature enough for the NHL. He's not even old enough to drink in the US.

He's 20 years old. The guy is literally a kid in a man's body living in a foreign country where everyone speaks a language he doesn't understand.




He really should have stayed in Finland for a couple years, maybe dominated another World Juniors. Done some time in the Minors, before being given a cup of coffee in the NHL sometime next season.

Offensively, he's going at a worse pace than he did under the Tmac "mistreated" years.
Like while I do agree that TMac may not have given him much guidance, it's strange that when working under Hitch, who is allegedly trying to groom him to play the right way, he suddenly scores worse.

 

[tellermine]

Thing is, the players I've seen who break out later, all kind of keep at a blase pace until they turn around 26 or so.

Jokkinen had a 21 point season, followed by another 21 point season, and then 16.

I think with JP it's an age thing. He's not physically or mentally mature enough for the NHL. He's not even old enough to drink in the US.

He's 20 years old. The guy is literally a kid in a man's body living in a foreign country where everyone speaks a language he doesn't understand.

He really should have stayed in Finland for a couple years, maybe dominated another World Juniors. Done some time in the Minors, before being given a cup of coffee in the NHL sometime next season.

Thing is that his hype fooled maby. He was drafted to high and Kekäläinen dodged him for a reason.

There are players like him in every draft at first round, just cant turn superb Junior career to NHL.
Usually proplem is hockey iq.

Still there is possibility to Puljujärvi turn his course, but its thin.

Sadly he has not developped mutch in 3 years. And when proplems are in hardest part of the game, its scary.

 

[talitintti]

Examples from 20 years ago aren't even relevant today. Puljujärvi will be 21 in a couple of months, players his age are dominating the league now. Huge guys like Barkov, Matthews, Laine are/were doing just fine.

Sure we can speculate he's the new coming of Todd Bertuzzi and Yamamoto is the second coming of Martin St.Louis, but it's like acting that your lottery ticket is worth something more than a dollar.

 

[Kaptah]

The constant whining about Jesse is beyond absurd. We already have a solid middle 6 player in him, who is already very good on defensive aspects of the game. He's still only 20 years old, has a very big frame, and has all the potential in the world to become a ppg player in 2-4 years.

Building a top team in the cap era is all about patience and developing your picks. I'm pretty sure most of the constant whiners already know that, and are just trolling away like there's no tomorrow.