Player Discussion Jesse Puljujärvi | His Mouth Contain His Tongue Only When He Eats Pizza

[Drivesaitl]

Sounds like how Jagr would exercise and train. Also, the other guy who would skate around with the easy caring mentality who I can remember was also Jagr.

Not making any other comparisons, but when there was earlier accusations that the coaches didn't like Pulju because of that attitude and that he wasn't taking this opportunity seriously, I think we can all look at how well the Mullet Man did with the same type of training habits and attitude on ice.

I'm not really understanding this because Jagr was like a demon on the ice the moment the puck was dropped from the word go. Jagr was an impressive NHL player the moment he stepped foot on the ice. A guy that loved the puck and the puck loved him. There wouldn't be a shift that occurred where you didn't notice him.

On the ice, (and ultimately this is what matters) there couldn't be more dissimilar players. One player that wanted the puck, the other that wanted the season to be over.

 

[guymez]

How can he earn it when he never gets the chance in the first place? All the talent is on the top PP unit, that's where he should get a long look. No reason whatsoever not to and it was my biggest beef with the coaching staff down the stretch of what was a development year last season.

Also, he doesn't have to be stapled to the McDavid line. This is the luxury of having a 1-2 punch like McDavid and Draisaitl in which one line draws the top pairing while the other lines up against secondary competition. No reason not to give Puljujarvi the opportunity to earn a spot alongside Draisaitl in preseason. My worry is that they gave Rieder a promise that he play with his countryman to earn a bigger deal the next season along with giving Lucic a chance to redeem himself in a top 6 role so I think they start Pulju on the 3rd line which is fine as long as they give him some looks on the top PP unit.

You and I both know that McDavid gets the top pairing D 100% of the time. Thats the primary reason why I dont want a young player (with shaky confidence) playing on the top line. It doesnt help the team and it doenst help Jesse IMO. I think the possibility of Jesse playing with Draisaitl is very real and its something I would like to see.
There is no concerted effort on the part of the coaches to hold Jesse back.

You are projecting fears and concerns weeks before anything has happened.
Its a new year....new coaches...and reportedly a new Jesse. Lets see how things play out instead of projecting outcomes based entirely on what happened for Jesse last season.

 

[ohheyhemsky]

I'm not really understanding this because Jagr was like a demon on the ice the moment the puck was dropped from the word go. Jagr was an impressive NHL player the moment he stepped foot on the ice. A guy that loved the puck and the puck loved him. There wouldn't be a shift that occurred where you didn't notice him.

On the ice, (and ultimately this is what matters) there couldn't be more dissimilar players. One player that wanted the puck, the other that wanted the season to be over.

I don't see where you're coming up with this dichotomy. Pulju is tongue out, but invested in the game 100% whenever he's on the ice. I think it's easy to discredit Pulju because of his lack of production at this point, but I don't see how you can downplay his competiveness on the ice.

I really don't get the hate here.

Also, from size to skating, range and use of body - Jagr and Pulju aren't that far off in actual style on the ice.

EDIT:

ANYONE READING THIS. I'M NOT CALLING PULJU A JAGR CLONE OR THAT HE'S GOING TO BE THE NEXT JAGR. It's sad I need to add this disclaimer, but it's definitely needed.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Pulju is "tongue out" because its a weird tic he's developed. Not because he's engaging so fervently on ice that he is panting like a dog. If I saw Pulju work harder and be more aggressive on the ice there wouldn't be concern, the same concern expressed by the org, by the comments of Craig Simpson for instance. This has not been a player leaving it all on the ice. he barely looks comfortable with the puck.

The interesting thing about the article above is it hilites something else. That in this fishpond Pulju is the one that has so far been shocked and bewildered at what it takes on the ice to succeed.

 

[guymez]

I don't see where you're coming up with this dichotomy. Pulju is tongue out, but invested in the game 100% whenever he's on the ice. I think it's easy to discredit Pulju because of his lack of production at this point, but I don't see how you can downplay his competiveness on the ice.

I really don't get the hate here.

Also, from size to skating, range and use of body - Jagr and Pulju aren't that far off in actual style on the ice.

EDIT:

ANYONE READING THIS. I'M NOT CALLING PULJU A JAGR CLONE OR THAT HE'S GOING TO BE THE NEXT JAGR. It's sad I need to add this disclaimer, but it's definitely needed.

There is no hate that I can see.

Just a recognition of the very real deficiencies in Jesses game.

 

[nabob]

Well except that isn't my narrative. My concern is of a player that does not consistently establish in games. That lacks the initiative and imposing his considerable size in actual shifts. On the ice this has been a passive player. One that for any reason is reluctant to engage and assert himself. That can't continue. Theres little room for tentative at this level of hockey.

That wasn’t what you had said earlier. That you expect a 18 year old to dominate right out of the gates without considering the factors that are causing tentativeness on his part is not surprising though. His first two seasons are very similar to Drai’s rookie season. The way the organization has handled both players couldn’t be more opposite.

Drai got sent down to junior where he dominated (as he should have). Then was called up quickly the next year after struggling in the AHL and was stapled in the top 6, and hasn’t played a minute outside of the top 6 since, even when he struggled. When he struggled at times he was put back with McDavid and never taken off the top PP unit. Contrast that with how they have handled Puljujarvi and you might find your answer for his lack of confidence and initiative.

 

[Drivesaitl]

There is not hate that I can see.

Just a recognition of the very real deficiencies in Jesses game.

Really I'm shocked here. We agree.

just kidding, it happens more than is evident.

 

[PulYou]

Pulju is "tongue out" because its a weird tic he's developed. Not because he's engaging so fervently on ice that he is panting like a dog. If I saw Pulju work harder and be more aggressive on the ice there wouldn't be concern, the same concern expressed by the org, by the comments of Craig Simpson for instance. This has not been a player leaving it all on the ice. he barely looks comfortable with the puck.

The interesting thing about the article above is it hilites something else. That in this fishpond Pulju is the one that has so far been shocked and bewildered at what it takes on the ice to succeed.

Pulju is not the only one tongue out when concentrading. You can Google it and find out that there are others in the NHL as well: Brad Marchand, David Pastrnak, Max Pacioretty, Erik Karlsson, Jay Beagle, Tyler Seguin and so on.

And it's not a tic:

Why do I stick out my tongue when I concentrate?

 

[Drivesaitl]

That wasn’t what you had said earlier. That you expect a 18 year old to dominate right out of the gates without considering the factors that are causing tentativeness on his part is not surprising though. His first two seasons are very similar to Drai’s rookie season. The way the organization has handled both players couldn’t be more opposite.

Drai got sent down to junior where he dominated (as he should have). Then was called up quickly the next year after struggling in the AHL and was stapled in the top 6, and hasn’t played a minute outside of the top 6 since, even when he struggled. When he struggled at times he was put back with McDavid and never taken off the top PP unit. Contrast that with how they have handled Puljujarvi and you might find your answer for his lack of confidence and initiative.

What did I EXACTLY say earlier that you are referring to? lets narrow it down a bit.. Quote a post and I'll explain it.

I think the difference between Drai and Pulju being one player that has flirted with PPG production and another that has 20 pts in sophomore season.

So switch it around, rather than putting onus on the org to conform to what the player wants what is the respective player doing for the org? What are the respective players doing for the team?

In Draisaitls case he's being a star player. Jesse, not so much. That's probably the biggest difference you are looking at but which you somehow see as external causation.

How about Draisaitl just accepted the challenge to be better and knew he had to be and made it happen?

 

[nabob]

What did I EXACTLY say earlier that you are referring to? lets narrow it down a bit.. Quote a post and I'll explain it.

I think the difference between Drai and Pulju being one player that has flirted with PPG production and another that has 20 pts in sophomore season.

So switch it around, rather than putting onus on the org to conform to what the player wants what is the respective player doing for the org? What are the respective players doing for the team?

In Draisaitls case he's being a star player. Jesse, not so much. That's probably the biggest difference you are looking at but which you somehow see as external causation.

How about Draisaitl just accepted the challenge to be better and knew he had to be and made it happen?

How about you actually look how the players were handled in the first two seasons after being drafted like I suggested. Instead you’re insisting on pushing your narrative that Jesse isn’t committed and doesn’t want to get better.

I’m not trying to insult your precious Drai in any way here. To compare the way the team has handled two top 4 picks doesn’t seem to be a reach at all. Especially considering the lengths they went to force a trade of Drai to a better WHL team, then they have glued him to players that have won the Hart trophy the last two years for his 2nd and 3rd season. When Jesse struggled after being demoted from the top line they gave him Lucic as his most consistent linemate and then moved him to 4th line LW. When Drai struggled to produce away from McDavid they immediately put him back with Connor. Will be interesting to see how both players do this season; will Drai be able to finally lead his own line and earn his massive salary? Will Jesse be out in a position to succeed and be given a longer leash, or will he continue to be benched late in game for stalwarts like Caggulia, Lucic and Cammy?

 

[Drivesaitl]

How about you actually look how the players were handled in the first two seasons after being drafted like I suggested. Instead you’re insisting on pushing your narrative that Jesse isn’t committed and doesn’t want to get better.

I’m not trying to insult your precious Drai in any way here. To compare the way the team has handled two top 4 picks doesn’t seem to be a reach at all. Especially considering the lengths they went to force a trade of Drai to a better WHL team, then they have glued him to players that have won the Hart trophy the last two years for his 2nd and 3rd season. When Jesse struggled after being demoted from the top line they gave him Lucic as his most consistent linemate and then moved him to 4th line LW. When Drai struggled to produce away from McDavid they immediately put him back with Connor. Will be interesting to see how both players do this season; will Drai be able to finally lead his own line and earn his massive salary? Will Jesse be out in a position to succeed and be given a longer leash, or will he continue to be benched late in game for stalwarts like Caggulia, Lucic and Cammy?

I'm simply suggesting that in the world of pro sports is that the onus is on the player to get better, to be better. What an outlandish proposition.

YOU are the one suggesting the treatment of players has been radically different even though you don't substantiate that position adequately. Both players were sent down. Not sure what you are seeing as so different.

In anycase your stance is confusing. So you're saying the team got it right with Drai and wrong with Pulju? Explain why one would be properly managed in your impression and the other not.

My ongoing take is that one player showed em real good, the other didn't.

 

[nabob]

I'm simply suggesting that in the world of pro sports is that the onus is on the player to get better, to be better. What an outlandish proposition.

YOU are the one suggesting the treatment of players has been radically different even though you don't substantiate that position adequately. Both players were sent down. Not sure what you are seeing as so different.

In anycase your stance is confusing. So you're saying the team got it right with Drai and wrong with Pulju? Explain why one would be properly managed in your impression and the other not.

My ongoing take is that one player showed em real good, the other didn't.

I have explained it multiple times. If you can’t see a difference in the way the team handled each players first two seasons with the club then you’re being intentionally obtuse...or maybe you aren’t and can’t see the obvious.

Yes Drai has showed real good while staples to Hart trophy winners. Puljujarvi showed good while playing with McDavid as well (a fact you continue to ignore). Hopefully Drai doesn’t look as terrible on the PP next year and is able to produce some offense away from elite linemates, because besides three playoff games he hasn’t done that so far in his career.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I have explained it multiple times. If you can’t see a difference in the way the team handled each players first two seasons with the club then you’re being intentionally obtuse...or maybe you aren’t and can’t see the obvious.

Yes Drai has showed real good while staples to Hart trophy winners. Puljujarvi showed good while playing with McDavid as well (a fact you continue to ignore). Hopefully Drai doesn’t look as terrible on the PP next year and is able to produce some offense away from elite linemates, because besides three playoff games he hasn’t done that so far in his career.

Both players were used commensurate with their on ice performance. Unfortunately, regarding Pulju, the performances have been drastically different.

Now if you want to continue to shriek that the Oilers are hamstringing Pulju then please explain WHY they would do that. Your claiming some controversy around why a 20pt player wouldn't be used more on the PP and topsix, without realizing for an instant how silly that is.

Drai DOES produce away from McD. You've been informed of this multiple times. Maybe you are obtuse.

 

[GameChanger]

Both players were used commensurate with their on ice performance. Unfortunately, regarding Pulju, the performances have been drastically different.

I don't want to take sides but I have to say I don't quite agree with that. I think you or your mind puts too much emphasize on the rest of the season, which I didn't watch much and thus can't really comment.

There's been several instances when the majority of fans and a lot of media thought Jesse would've deserved more. During the period of first 15-20 games he was one of the best players of the team and there were instances when he was dropped down from top6 and not given PP time for no good reason.

 

[GameChanger]

Sounds like how Jagr would exercise and train. Also, the first guy I think of outside of Jesse would be out on the ice with a similar type of attitude (easy going) was Jags.

Not making any other comparisons, but when there was earlier accusations that the coaches didn't like Pulju because of that attitude and that he wasn't taking this opportunity seriously, I think we can all look at how well the Mullet Man did with the same type of training habits and attitude on ice.

Everything I've read and all I've personally seen seems to imply that we're talking about someone who pretty much takes his training to the extreme. I think some people are mislead by his smile, but in fact I think he'd need to take it a bit easier (mentally) at times. I don't think McLellan and his actions have helped in that, but I'm still optimistic that it'll be better this season.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I don't want to take sides but I have to say I don't quite agree with that. I think you or your mind puts too much emphasize on the rest of the season, which I didn't watch much and thus can't really comment.

There's been several instances when the majority of fans and a lot of media thought Jesse would've deserved more. During the period of first 15-20 games he was one of the best players of the team and there were instances when he was dropped down from top6 and not given PP time for no good reason.

Pulju had 15pts in first 32GP in the only stretch in which he's looked capable of NHL play so far. He went onto only have 5 more pts the rest of the season.

He had occasional looks in topsix, and on PP at different times in the season. Unfortunately most games he was not engaged in the 2nd half of the season. He needs to be better.

 

[nabob]

I don't want to take sides but I have to say I don't quite agree with that. I think you or your mind puts too much emphasize on the rest of the season, which I didn't watch much and thus can't really comment.

There's been several instances when the majority of fans and a lot of media thought Jesse would've deserved more. During the period of first 15-20 games he was one of the best players of the team and there were instances when he was dropped down from top6 and not given PP time for no good reason.

The biggest reason why he was dropped off of McDavid’s line after the first 15-20 was because Drai was struggling and not able to carry his own line so he was put back together with McDavid. TMac said that for Puljujarvi his demotion was because he was playing so well, and he hoped he could spark some offense into the 3rd line.

 

[CupofOil]

You and I both know that McDavid gets the top pairing D 100% of the time. Thats the primary reason why I dont want a young player (with shaky confidence) playing on the top line. It doesnt help the team and it doenst help Jesse IMO. I think the possibility of Jesse playing with Draisaitl is very real and its something I would like to see.
There is no concerted effort on the part of the coaches to hold Jesse back.

You are projecting fears and concerns weeks before anything has happened.
Its a new year....new coaches...and reportedly a new Jesse. Lets see how things play out instead of projecting outcomes based entirely on what happened for Jesse last season.

That's why I suggested that he be tried on the Draisaitl line so he can face secondary competition while also getting to play with high level skill for an extended period to get the most out of his abilities.
I wouldn't even be that upset about him starting off on the 3rd line as long as he got some top unit PP time. Gotta give him a chance to spread his offensive wings at some point, not turn him into a grinder who gets situational offensive opportunities.

Also, this wouldn't be HFOil if there wasn't a bunch of fear mongerers like myself and others projecting fears and concerns over a month before the season starts. We're well conditioned in the art of skepticism, the Oilers have trained us well.

 

[guymez]

That's why I suggested that he be tried on the Draisaitl line so he can face secondary competition while also getting to play with high level skill for an extended period to get the most out of his abilities.
I wouldn't even be that upset about him starting off on the 3rd line as long as he got some top unit PP time. Gotta give him a chance to spread his offensive wings at some point, not turn him into a grinder who gets situational offensive opportunities.

Also, this wouldn't be HFOil if there wasn't a bunch of fear mongerers like myself and others projecting fears and concerns over a month before the season starts. We're well conditioned in the art of skepticism, the Oilers have trained us well.

Fair enough.
Perhaps we can agree that this is the season where Jesse takes the next step.

 

[PulYou]

"...when he's on he's a very dangerous player..."

ROSTER REDUX: Jesse Puljujarvi

 

[shoop]

"...when he's on he's a very dangerous player..."

ROSTER REDUX: Jesse Puljujarvi

He's really gotta be "on" a lot more this season. I truly hope he can.

 

[CycloneSweep]

He's really gotta be "on" a lot more this season. I truly hope he can.

My thoughts exactly.
We have seen players look phenomenal when on before. But the on was very rare.

 

[HockeyHistorian]

He's really gotta be "on" a lot more this season. I truly hope he can.

I agree. Hopefully he starts realising that he really can and should hold on to the puck longer and just powers through defenders like he did in juniors and while he is "on". It appears to me that he has the speed and strength to do it, but he lacks in confidence for some reason.

 

[GameChanger]

My thoughts exactly.
We have seen players look phenomenal when on before. But the on was very rare.

I liked your post, but comment on the "rare" word. He had plenty of games where he was a useful player to the team, quite often one of the best on the ice, but I agree he was phenomenal in just a few. What I'm trying to say is it wasn't just on or off, but there were shades of grey too.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

My thoughts exactly.
We have seen players look phenomenal when on before. But the on was very rare.

That is not uncommon with young players. They need to learn how to be effective and do so over 82 games. It's the inconsistent vets that drive me nuts!