Player Discussion Jesse Puljujärvi | His Mouth Contain His Tongue Only When He Eats Pizza

[McShogun99]

Ryan "Vanilla" Strome curiously had 34pts which is 14 more than Pulju. So that I would be a bit careful saying who was holding who back. Fact of the matter is Pulju had the poorest production out of any player that saw topsix rotation this season.

Not sure how you could honestly make an argument around players holding Pulju back when Pulju was 14th in pts production on this club and that the only player with as many GP that had worse production was Zach Kassian on a horrible year.

Think about that.

Mic drop.....

This post should shut some people up but I doubt it will

Strome is also a career 30ish point player that was saw more time on the PP this past season. I get it though. You hate JP and want him to bust so that you can say you’re right to feed your ego. Let’s call a 20 year old kid a bust before he even has an extended look with skilled players.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Better pick that mic back up, his production while paired with either of McDavid or Drai was far from worst production of any player during top 6 time. You can be as disingenuous with your posts as you like but it’s very easy to see right through them.

You have difficulty reading

This was my statement;

"Fact of the matter is Pulju had the poorest production out of any player that saw topsix rotation this season."

Its a correct statement. Pulju had 20 pts. No other player on the team that rotated in topsix had lower production.

You THINK the sentence is saying something that it isn't saying.

Read it carefully this time.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Strome is also a career 30ish point player that was saw more time on the PP this past season. I get it though. You hate JP and want him to bust so that you can say you’re right to feed your ego. Let’s call a 20 year old kid a bust before he even has an extended look with skilled players.

This being the type of aggressive post being resorted to when you can't defend a position. That logically its flimsy footing to blame production of player A on the alleged shortcomings of players that actually had considerably more points.

That said a number of players struggled to produce. That were expected to produce. But Strome produced about as much as was expected. But again Pulju was 14th in production among Oilers. Of players with same GP or more only Kassian had a lower point total.

 

[nabob]

You have difficulty reading

This was my statement;

"Fact of the matter is Pulju had the poorest production out of any player that saw topsix rotation this season."

Its a correct statement. Pulju had 20 pts. No other player on the team that rotated in topsix had lower production.

You THINK the sentence is saying something that it isn't saying.

Read it carefully this time.

Kassian played minutes in the top 6, so did your boy Slepy.

Puljujarvi didn’t rotate into the top 6. He started in the top 6. His production was pretty decent for g/60 as well as p/60. He was then moved to the bottom six for the last 30-40 games of the season. Your post, like many others was garbage.

 

[nabob]

Puljujarvi is struggling to learn the game as a RW. Rieder is more comfortable on the right side.

Not sure if that line would work.

Well coach moved him to 4LW last season for a decent stretch so any thing is possible considering how poorly the lines were deployed last year.

 

[nabob]

He has seemed very confident about his physical condition in recent interviews. I've liked his attitude. I think he'll shut up a lot of people this coming season.

No they’ll just find another way to make stupid posts as soon as he doesn’t score in the first game. Hell in his three point game last season almost half the posts were from Replacement slagging Puljujarvi, then he fully admitted he didn’t even watch the game. Maybe HF is the only place certain people can get the kind of attention they crave?

 

[Drivesaitl]

Kassian played minutes in the top 6, so did your boy Slepy.

Puljujarvi didn’t rotate into the top 6. He started in the top 6. His production was pretty decent for g/60 as well as p/60. He was then moved to the bottom six for the last 30-40 games of the season. Your post, like many others was garbage.

I can understand why you feel the point is selective. But isn't the view that Pulju was wronged so entirely somewhat suspicious? On the surface were made to believe, looking at this thread, that a player with 20pts, 14th on the team, should've been a mainstay in topsix and on PP. Yet a player like Strome that did what was asked of him had 34pts and admitted to struggling with vision difficulty due to a problem with one eye. I don't like Strome, I consider him a boring player. But to argue that a player with 34pts was holding back a player with 20 is a stretch argument. That's what I was pointing out. It isn't an entirely unreasonable point.

Most players on this club rotated in and out of topsix as we had auditioned a lot for those spots and including with Pulju. But he still finished with a mediocre 20 pts. 14th on the team.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

No they’ll just find another way to make stupid posts as soon as he doesn’t score in the first game. Hell in his three point game last season almost half the posts were from Replacement slagging Puljujarvi, then he fully admitted he didn’t even watch the game. Maybe HF is the only place certain people can get the kind of attention they crave?

I think it's just people protecting themselves from disappointment by expecting the worst.

 

[Drivesaitl]

No they’ll just find another way to make stupid posts as soon as he doesn’t score in the first game. Hell in his three point game last season almost half the posts were from Replacement slagging Puljujarvi, then he fully admitted he didn’t even watch the game. Maybe HF is the only place certain people can get the kind of attention they crave?

This is a poor post. This is a player discussion. Not a poster discussion, and of course you frame the point in misleading fashion.

 

[McDNicks17]

Instead of simply looking at points, have people looked at the other numbers McDavid and Pulju had together?

Line Stats - Natural Stat Trick

It's a smaller sample size, but notice how basically every single metric for McDavid+Pulju is above McDavid w/o Pulju and that Pulju's metrics without McDavid are basically the same as everyone's without McDavid?

 

[Drivesaitl]

Instead of looking simply at points, have people looked at the other numbers McDavid and Pulju had together?

Line Stats - Natural Stat Trick

It's a smaller sample size, but notice how basically every single metric for McDavid+Pulju is above McDavid w/o Pulju and that Pulju's metrics without McDavid are basically the same as everyone's without McDavid?

Isn't it the point though that a young offensive prodigy drafted specifically for his offense should be doing better with McD than many of the scrub wingers we have on this club?

Hopefully Pulju looks like a topsix player this season and his play is commensurate with putting him up there. Generally it wasn't and the team wasn't parking him in situations he didn't look to be ready for. It seems the org recognized a need to very gradually hone a player that was even voicing signs of being overwhelmed.

 

[McDNicks17]

Isn't it the point though that a young offensive prodigy drafted specifically for his offense should be doing better with McD than many of the scrub wingers we have on this club?

Hopefully Pulju looks like a topsix player this season and his play is commensurate with putting him up there. Generally it wasn't and the team wasn't parking him in situations he didn't look to be ready for. It seems the org recognized a need to very gradually hone a player that was even voicing signs of being overwhelmed.

Let's compare him to a non-scrub winger then.

Line Stats - Natural Stat Trick

Check out McDavid+Drai-Pulju and McDavid+Pulju-Drai.

Basically the same numbers.

 

[Drivesaitl]

^

They're numbers that mean little due to being very limited sample. Also obviously of note than when Drai is moved off the front line and Pulju put on it the opponent probably has to match two Oilers lines, and not one. What this meant much of the season when it occurred is that McD and Drai lines got alternating coverage.

So that non-intuitively Drai coming OFF the first line removes pressure (due to matching and coverage) from the first line. I mean that's exactly WHY we separate McD and Drai, to spread the wealth and try to have two lines going.

 

[McDNicks17]

^

They're numbers that mean little due to being very limited sample. Also obviously of note than when Drai is moved off the front line and Pulju put on it the opponent probably has to match two Oilers lines, and not one. What this meant much of the season when it occurred is that McD and Drai lines got alternating coverage.

So that non-intuitively Drai coming OFF the first line removes pressure (due to matching and coverage) from the first line. I mean that's exactly WHY we separate McD and Drai, to spread the wealth and try to have two lines going.

Isn't that a fairly positive review of Pulju then?

He's able to take Drai's spot beside McDavid and allow him to not skip a beat.

Unfortunately Drai's results away from McDavid are almost identical to Pulju's away from McDavid, so he didn't really hold up his end of the bargain to truly make it a positive.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Isn't that a fairly positive review of Pulju then?

He's able to take Drai's spot beside McDavid and allow him to not skip a beat.

Unfortunately Drai's results away from McDavid are almost identical to Pulju's away from McDavid, so he didn't really hold up his end of the bargain to truly make it a positive.

Well, strongly disagree with the latter. Drai produced fairly well without McD and despite playing with players not producing much. Pulju didn't produce very much, actually with or without McD. Thus the 20 pts.

Really its absolutely amazing in this config of wingers and poor PP that Drai even managed 70pts. I'd challenge that any stats that purport to say a player with 20 pts did identical to a player with 70pts are best viewed with a grain of salt. I'd say a conclusion stating Drai "didn't really hold up his end of the bargain" as mysterious.

 

[McDNicks17]

Well, strongly disagree with the latter. Drai produced fairly well without McD and despite playing with players not producing much. Pulju didn't produce very much, actually with or without McD. Thus the 20 pts.

Really its absolutely amazing in this config of wingers and poor PP that Drai even managed 70pts. I'd challenge that any stats that purport to say a player with 20 pts did identical to a player with 70pts is false. I'd say stating Drai "didn't really hold up his end of the bargain" as mysterious.

I was just specifically talking about their even strength minutes away from McDavid.

Draisaitl: 550 minutes, 50.4 CF%, 44.3 GF%, 49.0 SCF%, 45.7 HDCF%
Puljujarvi: 471 minutes, 49.1 CF%, 44.8 GF%, 44.7 SCF%, 38.7 HDCF%

 

[Drivesaitl]

I was just specifically talking about their even strength minutes away from McDavid.

Draisaitl: 550 minutes, 50.4 CF%, 44.3 GF%, 49.0 SCF%, 45.7 HDCF%
Puljujarvi: 471 minutes, 49.1 CF%, 44.8 GF%, 44.7 SCF%, 38.7 HDCF%

Well, you know I subscribe to actual production figures. Things like GFON, PTS/60 mins etc.

If figures of a player with 20pts are mirroring that of a player with 70pts I would say the metrics don't calibrate for the production reality very well. Actually they don't even resemble it.

Really its the entirely random numbers like that which is some of the reason I'm as disinterested as I am in metrics like that which don't seem to describe actual production results very well.

In this sidebar Isn't the bottomline how many pts and what rate of pts the players had away from McD 5 on 5?

 

[nabob]

This is a poor post. This is a player discussion. Not a poster discussion, and of course you frame the point in misleading fashion.

There was no point to frame. In an earlier post I made it clear that your post was bullshit.

 

[nabob]

Well, you know I subscribe to actual production figures. Things like GFON, PTS/60 mins etc.

If figures of a player with 20pts are mirroring that of a player with 70pts I would say the metrics don't calibrate for the production reality very well. Actually they don't even resemble it.

Really its the entirely random numbers like that which is some of the reason I'm as disinterested as I am in metrics like that which don't seem to describe actual production results very well.

In this sidebar Isn't the bottomline how many pts and what rate of pts the players had away from McD 5 on 5?

Speaking of p/60 what were Puljujarvi’s p/60 while playing with either of our top two centers?

 

[Drivesaitl]

There was no point to frame. In an earlier post I made it clear that your post was bull****.

No, there is a point. years ago here people were upside down thinking Omark was a star because he had a multiple pt game. I said was an aberration and even bet on it. Of course I was right. The Omark night was pretty out of the blue and not representative of the player, who was frankly an imposter as an NHL player. Now I'm saying none of that regarding Pulju, but if a player puts up a 3 pt night on a season where they end with 20pts the one result is probably not at all representative of the overall play.

That said of course I want the best for Pulju and I would want him to put up 20 boxcars of say 20G 20A. That would be nice and the team certainly requires it. Somebody has to put up the Maroon type production, forget about Hall or Eberle right now.

 

[McShogun99]

This being the type of aggressive post being resorted to when you can't defend a position. That logically its flimsy footing to blame production of player A on the alleged shortcomings of players that actually had considerably more points.

That said a number of players struggled to produce. That were expected to produce. But Strome produced about as much as was expected. But again Pulju was 14th in production among Oilers. Of players with same GP or more only Kassian had a lower point total.

There’s more to stats then just looking at games played and total points. I’m guessing you just look at the total points, see JP at 14th on the team and figure that he’s only going to be a 4th loner but considering you didn’t know what PPG meant, that’s understndabke. Strome is what he is and produced at his career average. JP isn’t ready yet and should have been in the AHL getting top six and PP minutes. Instead he’s here playing in the bottom six with no PP time. Watch his shifts, he’s already good postionally and defensively, he just needs to get stronger and more confident. The kid is going to end up being really good when he’s ready.

 

[McShogun99]

Speaking of p/60 what were Puljujarvi’s p/60 while playing with either of our top two centers?

I don’t remember the exact number but it was just over 2 with Mcdavid and around 2.4 with Draisaitl.

 

[McDNicks17]

Well, you know I subscribe to actual production figures. Things like GFON, PTS/60 mins etc.

If figures of a player with 20pts are mirroring that of a player with 70pts I would say the metrics don't calibrate for the production reality very well. Actually they don't even resemble it.

Really its the entirely random numbers like that which is some of the reason I'm as disinterested as I am in metrics like that which don't seem to describe actual production results very well.

In this sidebar Isn't the bottomline how many pts and what rate of pts the players had away from McD 5 on 5?

I guess it depends on if you want to look at the specific player's production or the line's production.

If xxx-McDavid-Pulju create chances and score goals at the same rate as xxx-McDavid+Drai even though Pulju personally gets less points than Drai does is that scenario, is the team not in the same spot?

 

[Drivesaitl]

I guess it depends on if you want to look at the specific player's production or the line's production.

If xxx-McDavid-Pulju create chances and score goals at the same rate as xxx-McDavid+Drai even though Pulju personally gets less points than Drai does is that scenario, is the team not in the same spot?

But you specifically stated that Pulju and Drai were "identical" away from McD. you also specifically stated Drai did not hold up his end of the bargain (away from McD.

I simply refuted that these are false claims, which they are.

McD with anybody pretty much creates chances. We've seen that with any of Drai, Pulju, Rattie, Nuge, etc. The key to the team doing well however and having some depth is who can produce well AWAY from McD. Career wise Drai has most certainly done that. He even did it pretty well last season. He's the rare quantity here that has.

But to answer your question I have no problem slotting Pulju in with McD regularly. Hopefully he's ready for that. I do think that doing it would reduce some of the lack of compete we otherwise see from Pulju. At this point I would start forcing him into the spotlight struggles or not. Its time to find out.

 

[McDNicks17]

But you specifically stated that Pulju and Drai were "identical" away from McD. you also specifically stated Drai did not hold up his end of the bargain (away from McD.

I simply refuted that these are false claims, which they are.

McD with anybody pretty much creates chances. We've seen that with any of Drai, Pulju, Rattie, Nuge, etc. The key to the team doing well however and having some depth is who can produce well AWAY from McD. Career wise Drai has most certainly done that. He even did it pretty well last season. He's the rare quantity here that did.

They aren't false claims, but I'll concede it since that's not the point I'm trying to make.


The second point segues pretty well into the point I am trying to make.

Everybody creates chances with McDavid, but Pulju is the only winger on the team that created chances even remotely to as close as Drai does with McDavid.

Line Stats - Natural Stat Trick

I'm too lazy to link every player, so you can just swap Pulju to anyone in the drop down to see the numbers.

So my point is even though Pulju didn't personally collect points, it's factually incorrect that he didn't play well with McDavid since he was the closest thing to replacing Drai's effect on McDavid's line last season.